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Anos Voldigoad "True Power" key revisions - Maou Gakuin

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imZer0Null

imZer0Null

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Hello. This CRT was created to **revise Anos Voldigoad's "True Power" key and possibly hopefully not downgrade Anos from 2-B.

I didn't really want to do this, but I thought it would be better if a verse supporter does this, since as a verse supporter I can try and remain unbiased towards both the pro-downgrade arguments and the anti-downgrade arguments.

DO NOT ATTEMPT ANY OTHER UPGRADES OR DOWNGRADES IN THIS THREAD.
This CRT could possibly turn controversial, so I kindly ask of you to refrain from mentioning any other upgrades or downgrades in this CRT, so that we can focus on only the topic of this CRT.

These three threads all attempted to downgrade Anos Voldigoad/Venuzdonoa. They were all rejected because they couldn't debunk Venuzdonoa having a 2-B rating.
Venuzdonoa should undoubtedly be rated as 2-B, and I won't attempt to downgrade Venuzdonoa, since I agree with its 2-B rating.

I, personally, defended Anos' 2-B rating, since I thought that Anos>Venuzdonoa was an undeniable truth, and I think a few other people also thought this.
However, Anos>Venuzdonoa isn't actually confirmed.

So, I will go over Anos' current justifications for his 2-B rating, explain why his current justifications are flawed, and also try to provide new proof for 2-B Anos, though the new proof isn't as concrete as I would like it to be. I'll also be using MTL in this CRT, as I don't currently have the time to translate the statements myself.

**Quoting boxes don't seem to work very well with spoiler boxes, so just reload the page if none of the quoting boxes show a "Click to expand..." option.

From Anos Voldigoad's profile:

Multiverse level (Completely unaffected by Venuzdonoa's attacks and Anos himself implied to be stronger than it. Anos is considered a near-perfect Lion of Destruction, which is capable of destroying the Silver Sea)
Click to expand...

The Lion of Destruction justification is only used as a supporting justification for Anos' 2-B rating, and I believe at most it could grant him an "Eventually/Potentially 2-B" rating.

The problem is with Anos' main justification for his 2-B rating, which made a few people believe that Anos>Venuzdonoa is an undeniable truth:

Completely unaffected by Venuzdonoa's attacks and Anos himself implied to be stronger than it.

  • Anos was indeed unaffected Venuzdonoa's attacks, but that happened in WN Chapter 185, and was due to his Purple Destruction Eyes. This isn't an anti-feat for Venuzdonoa (as explained in the previous attempted downgrade CRT's), and only counts as a feat for his eyes which specifically interfere with order.

From WN Chapter 185:

Turn your demon eye at it and grab the blade that was swung down.

Grinning, Avos Dilhevia laughed as if she was convinced of her victory.

"Did you think you could prevent it by using <Demon Eyes of Destruction>?"

The magical power is concentrated on the sword, and its blade destroys all reason.

The <Demon Eyes of Destruction> and <Fourth World Wall Beno Even> are no more than paper-thin defences in front of Venuzdonoa.

Just destroy it.

That is the only and absolute reason engraved in the magic sword.

"... but ... ha ... a ..."

The moaning leaked.

This hand dyed in jet black, the fingertips of <Root Kill Bebesd> pierced the source of Avos Dilhevia.

“………………………………………… Why ………………”

Painfully, she uttered a voice.

"... Why ... Why ...?"

While spitting blood, there was no choice but to question.

"Venuzdonoa is certainly ... in this hand, in control--"

"Did you ever think you could stand against me if you held the Principle Destroying Sword?"

Avos Dilhevia stares at my demon eye tainted with annihilation purple. (Purple Destruction Eyes)

The bottom of the abyss, deeper and deeper--

".........why........I can't see it....... I can't see the bottom of you......... I am the Demon King of Tyranny...."

"That's the answer. After all, it's just rumors and folklore."

With the right hand of black annihilation, I crush her source.

With a thud, Avos Dilhevia's strength is released.

"You are a forgery, Avos Dilhevia"
Click to expand...

  • Regarding the scan linked to in the justification, that happens in WN Chapter 186, and Anos was unaffected by the Sun of Destruction <Sargeldonave>, not Venuzdonoa. The Sun of Destruction was merely used in the construction of Venuzdonoa, and does not have the same capabilities as Venuzdonoa:

Principle Destroying Sword <Venuzdonoa>: The magic sword of the founder which can destroy all things in creation. Whether it's providence, fate, or miracles, they can do nothing but bow down and disappear before it. No matter how tough, eternal or infinite it is, Venuzdonoa will destroy it alongside its reason. Before this Principle Destroying Sword all reason is meaningless. Magical things like distances and dimensions are irrelevant. In front of this Principle Destroying Sword, all reason turns to nothing, hence it's useless to think about what it can or can't do. The only principle that Venuzdonoa allows to exist is the destruction of Anos' enemies.
Click to expand...

Sun of Destruction <Sargeldonave>: Aberneyu's divine order, which burns everything and destroys on sight. It comes with the Month of Destruction, the opposite side of the Month of Creation, and it destroys creations that are meant to be destroyed. When the order was transformed into the Principle Destroying Sword <Venuzdonoa>, and her body turned into Delsgade, it was no longer able to kill and destroy things that were meant to be destroyed, allowing resurrection spells like <Ingall> to work much more successfully.
Click to expand...

From WN Chapter 396:

''Once that vessel is filled with your source and divine body, your magic contract with me will be signed. I will twist the order of the God of Destruction and turn the Sun of Destruction <Sargeldonave> into a magic that destroys reason, the Principle Destroying Sword <Venuzdonoa>. With it, I will completely deprive this world of the order of destruction you possess."
Click to expand...

  • Anos is certainly capable of being unaffected by the Sun of Destruction due to his own power, but he wasn't actually unaffected due to his own power in this scenario. The Sun of Destruction didn't destroy Anos because it didn't regard Anos as an enemy:

From WN Chapter 189:

"We were outside when Sargeldonave shined."

Misha says.

"How did you make it out okay?"

"Anos was in the throne room when it happened, and he couldn't afford to protect us all, could he? Besides, with magic on that scale, it wouldn't have been surprising if all the demons in the Midhaze had been killed"

Darkness looms over the magic circle.

A part of the shadow of the <Sun of Destruction> floating in the heavens was missing, and on the contrary, a part of the shadow sword appeared in the centre of the magic circle.

Sargeldonave gradually disappeared and eventually disappeared completely.

A shadow sword appeared in front of me.

"It's easy. Sargeldonave didn't regard you as enemies. It only destroyed Avos Dilhevia, who must be destroyed."
Click to expand...

Another flawed justification:

Anos mentions that Venuzdonoa only serves to control his own power if he loses control of its source, so he must be far superior to it.

This justification is flawed because Anos isn't talking about Venuzdonoa in the scan, but is actually talking about the Two Laws Sword:

From WN Chapter 498:

The black particles that had leaked from my source gradually settled down and disappeared due to the damage caused by the <Egil Grone Angdroa>.

This is because the magical power is flowing in the two laws sword.

This sword, which is the body of the two laws tyrants, connects the magic lines of the <Demon King Army Gyze> and makes my source work. So to speak, it is my second body.

Because it is not the original body, the magical power is consumed significantly just by maintaining it, but it absorbs the magical power of destruction that is not diluted before it is adjusted, so it is rather easier to control the magical power.

With this two laws sword, there will be less worrying about destroying the world even if you do a little crazy.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately I can't find the Japanese raws for the scan linked to in the above justification, as it's a rather insignificant and out of context scan. However, the burden of proof falls on the people claiming that the scan in question is talking about Venuzdonoa to provide proof that it is indeed talking about Venuzdonoa.

Anos himself did at least imply that he's stronger than the Sun of Destruction in a previously linked scan, and this is also evident by the fact that his Chaotic Destruction Eyes are a portable Venuzdonoa. These eyes can destroy reason similarly to Venuzdonoa, though they have no statements of destroying all of creation, and merely opening them, not even using their power, destroys the world:

Description created from info found in WN Chapter 391 and WN Chapter 477:

Demon Eyes of Chaotic Destruction: The original demon eyes of Anos before he suppressed and later replaced them with the much weaker Demon Eyes of Destruction. The essence of these eyes is destruction, and it possesses unfathomable power that destroys even the indestructible. Merely the opening of these eyes will cause the entire world to collapse. The Demon Eyes of Chaotic Destruction is capable of destroying reason, order and principles. If there's a contradiction between the Demon Eyes of Chaotic Destruction and the principles that must be destroyed, Anos will win unilaterally. Due to how chaotic and destructive these eyes were, Anos suppressed its power to the limit and never used them, eventually obtaining the much more reasonable Demon Eyes of Purple Destruction, which destroys order. Later on, Anos is able to use the Demon Eyes of Destruction while still having access to the Demon Eyes of Chaotic Destruction.
Click to expand...

Why is this relevant?
Well, the Sun of Destruction is used as a seal to control Venuzdonoa's power, so at the very least we know that Anos is stronger than Venuzdonoa's seal:

From WN Chapter 527:

Kostoria turned to the magic circle.

With her eyes open, she stretched out her fingers and sent her magical power, wondering if she could really see it.

"A sword that cuts shadows and turns them into magic circles - no. This is magic that disrupts order."

Kostoria immediately recognises the characteristics of Venuzdonoa and goes further into its abyss.

"In the construction of the formula, the power of the god of destruction is used. No. It is only a seal to control the power. The essence of magic is much deeper, more bottomless--"
Click to expand...

Someone else also interpreted this statement as the Sun of Destruction being a seal for Venuzdonoa's magic formula, and that Venuzdonoa still requires Anos' magic power as a power source, that being the "much deeper, more bottomless--" magic that Kostoria mentions, so Anos=Venuzdonoa is still a possibility.

In conclusion:

Anos>Venuzdonoa isn't necessarily the truth, and thus Anos doesn't necessarily scale to Venuzdonoa. This is a possible misconception that was likely caused by bad MTL, like all other errors on Anos' profile. There's probably some intentional wank in there as well.
Anos is at least stronger than Venuzdonoa's seal, and Anos=Venuzdonoa is a possibility.

If anyone can debunk this CRT or provide new proof for Anos' 2-B rating, please do so.
**If the Anos=Venuzdonoa possibility is rejected, then Anos' hypothetical "True Power" key should probably be removed.

**Please state whether you agree, disagree, or remain neutral towards the downgrade, or whether you agree with Anos=Venuzdonoa.

Agree with downgrade: @Lormac_CC (I think?), @TMC_667

Disagree with downgrade:

Neutral: @Dereck03 (Semi-agree with Anos=Venuzdonoa), @Cosmic_King_of_SAO, @RamadhanDayYet, @YuuxGod97

Agree with Anos=Venuzdonoa: @InfiniteCosmology


Insert meme: "You have become the very thing you swore to destroy."
 
Last edited:
I think I agree with Anos=Venuzdonoa, but nothing more. Although the truth is that he has not yet shown his full power, there is still a long way to go. Although many say that the venuzdonoa seal is the power of venuzdonoa itself, so I don't know the truth..... Neutral
 
Last edited:
imZer0Null said:
Hello. This CRT was created to possibly hopefully not downgrade Anos Voldigoad from 2-B.

I didn't really want to do this, but I thought it would be better if a verse supporter does this, since as a verse supporter I can try and remain unbiased towards both the pro-downgrade arguments and the anti-downgrade arguments.

DO NOT ATTEMPT ANY OTHER UPGRADES OR DOWNGRADES IN THIS THREAD.
This CRT could possibly turn controversial, so I kindly ask of you to refrain from mentioning any other upgrades or downgrades in this CRT, so that we can focus on only the topic of this CRT.

These three threads all attempted to downgrade Anos Voldigoad/Venuzdonoa. They were all ultimately rejected because they couldn't debunk Venuzdonoa having a 2-B rating (because currently it should undoubtedly be rated as 2-B).
I, personally, defended Anos' 2-B rating, since I was under the impression that Anos>Venuzdonoa was an undeniable truth, and I think a few other people also thought this.
However, Anos>Venuzdonoa isn't confirmed.

So, I will go over Anos' current justifications for his 2-B rating, explain why his current justifications are flawed, and also try to provide new proof for 2-B Anos, though the new proof isn't as concrete as I would like it to be. I'll also be using MTL in this CRT, as I don't currently have the time to translate the statements myself.

**Quoting boxes don't seem to work very well with spoiler boxes, so just reload the page if the some of the quoting boxes don't show a "Click to expand..." option.



The Lion of Destruction justification is only used as a supporting justification for Anos' 2-B rating, and I believe at most it could grant him an "Eventually/Potentially 2-B" rating.

The problem is with Anos' main justification for his 2-B rating, which made a few people believe that Anos>Venuzdonoa is an undeniable truth:

Completely unaffected by Venuzdonoa's attacks and Anos himself implied to be stronger than it.

  • Anos was indeed unaffected Venuzdonoa's attacks, but that happened in WN Chapter 185, and was due to his Purple Destruction Eyes. This isn't an anti-feat for Venuzdonoa (as explained in the previous attempted downgrade CRT's), and only counts as a feat for his eyes which specifically interfere with order.



  • Regarding the scan linked to in the justification, that happens in WN Chapter 186, and Anos was unaffected by the Sun of Destruction <Sargeldonave>, not Venuzdonoa. The Sun of Destruction was merely used in the construction of Venuzdonoa, and does not have the same capabilities as Venuzdonoa:







  • Anos was certainly capable of being unaffected by the Sun of Destruction due to his own power, but he wasn't actually unaffected due to his own power. The Sun of Destruction didn't destroy Anos because it didn't regard Anos as an enemy:



Another flawed justification:

Anos mentions that Venuzdonoa only serves to control his own power if he loses control of its source, so he must be far superior to it.

This justification is flawed because Anos isn't talking about Venuzdonoa in the scan, but is actually talking about the Two Laws Sword:



Unfortunately I can't find the Japanese raws for the scan linked to in the above justification, as it's a rather insignificant and out of context scan. However, the burden of proof falls on the people claiming that the scan in question is talking about Venuzdonoa to provide proof that it is indeed talking about Venuzdonoa.

Anos himself did at least imply that he's stronger than the Sun of Destruction in a previously linked scan, and this is also evident by the fact that his Chaotic Destruction Eyes are a portable Venuzdonoa. These eyes can destroy reason similarly to Venuzdonoa, though they have no statements of destroying all of creation, and merely opening them, not even using their power, destroys the world:



Why is this relevant?
Well, the Sun of Destruction is used as a seal to control Venuzdonoa's power, so at the very least we know that Anos is stronger than Venuzdonoa's seal:



Someone else also interpreted this statement as the Sun of Destruction being a seal for Venuzdonoa's magic formula, and that Venuzdonoa ultimately still requires Anos' magic power, that being the "much deeper, more bottomless--" magic that Kostoria mentions, so Anos=Venuzdonoa is still a possibility.

In conclusion:

Anos>Venuzdonoa isn't necessarily the truth, and thus Anos doesn't necessarily scale to Venuzdonoa. This is a possible misconception that was likely caused by bad MTL, like all other errors on Anos' profile. There's probably some intentional wank in there as well.
Anos is at least stronger than Venuzdonoa's seal, and Anos=Venuzdonoa is a possibility.

If anyone can debunk this CRT or provide new proof for Anos' 2-B rating, please do so, otherwise Anos' hypothetical "True Power" key should probably be removed.

**Please state whether you agree, disagree, or remain neutral towards the downgrade, or that you agree with Anos=Venuzdonoa.

Agree with downgrade:

Disagree with downgrade:

Neutral: @Dereck03 (Seems to agree with Anos=Venuzdonoa)


Insert meme: "You have become the very thing you swore to destroy."
Click to expand...
Following, I cannot agree with Anos=Venuzdonoa. There are no scans which prove that Anos is less stronger than his sword, nor equal to his sword. We have to remember the fact that prior to Venuzdonoa existed, Anos was the one who put down Aberneyu and made Venuzdonoa, so he should be stronger than it.

Infact he was the one to convert the order of destruction into a weapon of destruction. The construction formula goes back to him. But if we agree that Anos= Venuzdonoa then, we are indirectly suggesting that Venuzdonoa(like Anos) is capable of destroying the entire silver sea.

If there are scans to prove that Venuzdonoa is capable to destroy the entire Silver Sea, then I am fine with Anos=Venuzdonoa.

And regarding the true power key of Anos, I think it will be fine if it stays cuz we can use the quote of Anos being a near perfect lion of destruction is capable...... But I am fine if it is removed too.

Regarding the poor translation caused by MTL, I think you should use deepL for it, or any other machine translators if available.
 
Last edited:
InfiniteCosmology said:
Following, I cannot agree with Anos=Venuzdonoa. There are no scans which prove that Anos is less stronger than his sword, nor equal to his sword. We have to remember the fact that prior to Venuzdonoa existed, Anos was the one who put down Aberneyu and made Venuzdonoa, so he should be stronger than it.

Infact he was the one to convert the order of destruction into a weapon of destruction. But if we agree that Anos= Venuzdonoa then, we are indirectly suggesting that Venuzdonoa(like Anos) is capable of destroying the entire silver sea.

If there are scans to prove that Venuzdonoa is capable to destroy the entire Silver Sea, then I am fine with Anos=Venuzdonoa.

And regarding the true power key of Anos, I think it will be fine if it stays cuz we can use the quote of Anos being a near perfect lion of destruction is capable...... But I am fine if it is removed too.

Regarding the poor translation caused by MTL, I think you should use deepL for it, or any other machine translators if available.
Click to expand...
Idk what exactly you're talking about, but Venuzdonoa can destroy the Silver Sea.

**Please refer to these three threads if you have any doubts.
 
InfiniteCosmology said:
Following, I cannot agree with Anos=Venuzdonoa. There are no scans which prove that Anos is less stronger than his sword, nor equal to his sword. We have to remember the fact that prior to Venuzdonoa existed, Anos was the one who put down Aberneyu and made Venuzdonoa, so he should be stronger than it.

Infact he was the one to convert the order of destruction into a weapon of destruction. The construction formula goes back to him. But if we agree that Anos= Venuzdonoa then, we are indirectly suggesting that Venuzdonoa(like Anos) is capable of destroying the entire silver sea.

If there are scans to prove that Venuzdonoa is capable to destroy the entire Silver Sea, then I am fine with Anos=Venuzdonoa.

And regarding the true power key of Anos, I think it will be fine if it stays cuz we can use the quote of Anos being a near perfect lion of destruction is capable...... But I am fine if it is removed too.

Regarding the poor translation caused by MTL, I think you should use deepL for it, or any other machine translators if available.
Click to expand...
I think you'd better read the OP again, you seem to be lost.
 
I'm neutral for now (I am leaning towards agreeing) but if this does get accepted what would be the new reasoning for why he's 2-B?

For example.
At least Multiversal (What would be here?)
 
The only thing that will change would be to remove the "True Power" key from Anos profile, and to obviate the scaling above Venuzdonoa, making him = to Venuz (This is just my interpretation.... I may be wrong)
 
I should probably clarify that Anos=Venuzdonoa is only a possibility, but if it's accepted, then Anos will keep his "True Power" key, and only the justification for that key will be changed.
 
Last edited:
imZer0Null said:
I should probably clarify that Anos=Venuzdonoa is only a possibility, but if it's accepted, then Anos will keep his "True Power" key, and only the justification for that key will be changed.
Click to expand...
Well, as I said before, I'm fine with Anos=Venuzdonoa, but I still want to hear other people's opinions.
 
Cosmic_King_of_SAO said:
What would be the new justification if Anos=Venuzdonoa is accepted?
Click to expand...
I'm not completely sure, since Anos=Venuzdonoa isn't a solid possibility, but I guess it would be something as follows:

Venuzdonoa uses the Sun of Destruction <Sargeldonave> as a seal to control its power and Anos' own power as a power source, so Anos must at least be equal to it in power.
 
I
imZer0Null said:
I'm not completely sure, since Anos=Venuzdonoa isn't a solid possibility, but I guess it would be something as follows:

Venuzdonoa uses the Sun of Destruction <Sargeldonave> as a seal to control its power and Anos' own power as a power source, so Anos must at least be equal to it in power.
Click to expand...
I see. Nonetheless I'll stay neutral for now.
 
Some of these comments don't contribute anything to the thread, and I can't add someone to agree/disagree/neutral if they only say something like "Seems fine", since the OP has both pro-downgrade arguments and a possible anti-downgrade argument.
 
Marciano15 said:
Will it affect the tier?
Click to expand...
Probably since his "True Power" key is his 2-B tier as well if he doesn't have Venuzdonoa. So he might only be 2-B if there's new evidence to suggest otherwise or if he has Venuzdonoa. Or it will be likely 2-B instead.

However, if Anos=Venuzdonoa is accepted then his "True Power" key won't be removed.
 
The quote from Venuzodnoa 2-B is no longer sealed with her, I don't understand how it interfered with the scale, if Anos has already mentioned that she can destroy everything in creation with her sealed, if she was already sealed at that time and Anos hinted at being more strong the scale remains the same, and also Anos already defeated Aberneyu itself? Anyway, I disagree with the CRT
 
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