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The very last Anos Voldigoad Downgrade CRT

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AncientKing95

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As per the title, this is the very last time I'll try to downgrade Anos. If this gets rejected as well, I won't bother to ever make another one.

Let's go over what I'm trying to downgrade; Anos' 2-B Tier. He has this tier because the Silver Sea is considered to be a 2-B structure, and the general consensus is that Anos can destroy the entire Silver Sea. Now let's go over why many assume that Anos can destroy the entire Silver Sea;

Exhibit A) The statement that Anos can destroy all things in creation no matter how eternal or infinite: https://gyazo.com/9fc26df4e6c3496d106b513b1a163bd5

Exhibit B) Anos is a Lion of Destruction, and it was stated that the Lion of Destruction could destroy the Silver Sea:

My response to Exhibit A;

1. Anos stated that Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in creation, no matter how eternal or infinite.

2. Anos didn't know that the Silver Sea existed when he made this statement.

3. The only thing he was aware of was the universe he lived in and everything in it.

4. So when Anos stated that "Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in creation", he was saying that Venuzdonoa could destroy all things in his universe. That's what "all things in creation" was referring to.

5. But what about the "no matter how eternal or infinite"? What this means is, Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in the universe, no matter how eternal or infinite. Because the all of creation that Anos was referring to was the universe he lived in and everything in it. The "all of creation" part can't be extended to mean the entire Silver Sea, because that's literally not what Anos was referring to.

6. Of course Venuzdonoa can still work in deeper layers. The essence of the magic of the formula that constructs it is deep. However, it still working doesn't mean that it can destroy the entire Silver Sea. It harming a deep-world inhabitant isn't anything special, and isn't anywhere close to comparable with destroying the Silver Sea. You can't use the statement to argue that Venuzdonoa hasn't "gone against it" in deeper layers, because the statement doesn't take the Silver Sea into consideration in the first place.

7. In order for Venuzdonoa to prove that it can destroy the entire Silver Sea, it has to actually be used to go and do it. Saying that it isn't in Anos' character to do that in the first place isn't a valid argument for why it's capable of doing that, because again, all that's proven is that Venuzdonoa can destroy Anos' entire universe. Anos harming a deep world inhabitant simply proves that Venuzdonoa can still destroy things in deeper layers, not that Venuzdonoa can destroy everything in the Silver Sea no matter how eternal or infinite.

8. It was stated that the Sun of Ruin <Surge El Donave> could destroy the world. The Sun of Ruin <Surge El Donave> still works in deeper layers, and it's still very powerful. However, <Surge El Donave> literally proved that it couldn't destroy a deep world. Does this mean that it goes against it's statement? No, it doesn't, because the world that was being referred to was just the Militia World. In the same vein, Venuzdonoa still works in deeper layers, is still very powerful, and hasn't gone against it's statement. However, that doesn't mean that it can destroy the all of creation that is the entire Silver Sea, because what was being referred to by "all of creation" was just Anos' own universe.



My response for Exhibit B;

1. "The lion of the destruction of Artenon is a monster that destroys the nations of the deep world, and I can't prove that. It surrenders quietly." (Balzarondo)

"Kuha. It's an exaggeration in one country. If you call it a monster, I want you to have at least the power to destroy the world." (Anos)


Here, it is stated that the Lion of Destruction only has the power to destroy nations of a deep world. The difference between this statement and the other one, is that this statement is based off of what the character has seen, while the other statement about the Lion of Destruction destroying the Silver Sea had no prior evidence and was quite literally an in-verse assumption. Granted, I'll be fair here and acknowledge that the Lions of Destruction that Balzarondo are referring to are Naga, Kostoria, and Bobonga, who are all imperfect Lions. That being said, they are still Lions nonetheless, and if the perfect incarnation of the Lion of Destruction could really destroy the entire Silver Sea, then imperfect ones should still at least be able to destroy multiple deep worlds at once (there are countless worlds in each of the 99 layers), but they can only destroy nations of a deep world, which is nowhere close to the entire Silver Sea.
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2. "At the bottom of <the abyss of thirst>, concentrated desires stagnate and accumulate. It is from that deepest thirst that the strongest phantom beast, the lion of destruction of Artenon, is born. The lion means the king of beasts. That is, they are kings of phantom beasts." (Parrington)

Coastria and that man with a sword are phantom beasts born from craving.

"What kind of thirst did you come from?" (Anos)

"It is said to have all sorts of cravings that bring disaster to the Ginkai, but the strongest core is the urge to destroy. Therefore, they are hated as the lions of destruction, and their own mighty destruction." (Parrington)


Parrington completely explains what the conceptual incarnated Lion of Destruction that formed within the Abyss of Thirst(/Disaster of Craving, there are different translations for this term) is. The Lion of Destruction possesses immense destructive power and a huge desire to destroy. Knowing that, let's look at Anos for a second. Anos already possesses the power of the Lion of Destruction in his source and all of his body parts, as he is the closest to being the most perfect incarnation of the Lion of Destruction. The one thing he lacks is the Lion of Destruction's impulse to destroy everything. Now, let's analyze this statement once more: ; Parrington claims that Anos will have a hard fate ahead of him once his destructive impulses awaken. Anos already possesses the power of the Lion of Destruction. The only thing he doesn't possess is the impulse to destroy everything. Anos suddenly awakening to his destructive impulses aren't going to make him more powerful than he already is. And Anos hasn't shown even close to having enough power to destroy the entire Silver Sea, even when you take into account that he's still holding back some power. The most he's done is almost destroying a single deep world, of which there are a countless worlds in a single layer, and there are 99+ layers. Anos almost destroying a single deep world (in his fight with Yzak) isn't anywhere close to destroying the entire Silver Sea.
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3. "The lion of the destruction of Artzenon is a disaster itself. Once that thirst awakens, it is driven by the urge to destroy and even this silver sea is destroyed." (Parrington)

Parrington shouted with a slight smile.

"And now is the time to awaken your urge to destroy. The lion of the abyss of the disaster, the lion of the destruction of Artzenon! , Reason will never return " (Parrington)

Golden magical power runs from <red thread>, passes through the sewing needle, and flows into my roots.

It is the stagnant thirst that has accumulated in this <disaster of thirst>.

"Forget everything that the unsightly man taught you, and you become a real lion. The sword, the magic, the words, even the thoughts, everything that the man left behind is crushed here." (Parrington)

Immediately after that.

The eerie voice echoed directly from the depths of this body.

It was an inner impulse.

It's nothing else, it's my own voice.

Malice boiled and overflowed from the deeper part of the heart.

――Destroy ――

Even if you close your ears, it echoes inside your body and shakes your head.

――With all the seas――

A thirsty desire that sticks to the skull.

――All beings――

Another self who appeals to break and break.

It appealed many times to destroy everything--

"Show your true nature, ugly beast, and prove yourself. Yes. Celis Voldigord couldn't make her sister's dream come true. Give her a kind child. I couldn't give it to you! " (Parrington)

The remaining one lion sewing needle floating in the air is pointed at my heart.

"Crazy, rampage, destroying many worlds, but your sexuality. Then, my sister notices for the first time. I notice. The family I made with that man was far from peaceful. Oh, my sister finally. You wake up and regret it-- " (Parrington)


After trying to forcefully awaken Anos' impulses, Parrington stated that Anos was going to go crazy, rampage, and destroy many worlds. We know that the Lion of Destruction is driven by it's craving to destroy everything. I think the problem is, many people are misinterpreting what the characters meant when they state something along the lines of "it is said that the Lion of Destruction's impulses will destroy even the Silver Sea". This statement doesn't mean that the Lion of Destruction could destroy the entire Silver Sea at once. What it means is that it's destructive impulses will carry it to eventually destroying the Silver Sea, because it's impulse to destroy everything would lead to it going around and destroying everything in sight until there was nothing left. If a character destroys buildings one at a time, and eventually this leads to the entire city being destroyed, that doesn't make that character city level. After having already said that Anos' destructive impulses would carry him to destroy even the Silver Sea, in this chapter he states that Anos would rampage and destroy many worlds, which indicates that he wouldn't destroy the entire Silver Sea at once, he would do so bit by bit driven to destroy everything in sight. Even if this happens to just be an "assumption" of mine, you could say that the other way around, as no characters in this series have stated that the Lion of Destruction could destroy the entire Silver Sea at once, and all the evidence points towards them meaning that the Silver Sea would be destroyed bit by bit.
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4. The magical power of the perishing lion is rising from the whole body of Parrington.

Are both legs, eyes, and right arm particularly strong?

The black particles seemed to be controlled by the swaying guy's <red thread>.

"It seems that it wasn't a lie that Dominique could use the power of the Coastrias. He tied that <red thread> to the lion of the destruction of Artenon in the <disaster of thirst> and turned it into his own power. That's why. " (Anos)

The unincarnated lion of destruction has no substance, and should be closer to the concept of amorphous, a collection of cravings with magical power rather than living things.

If it could be incarnated, it wouldn't be limited to both legs, eyes, and right arm, but it doesn't seem to be that free.

It would be a difficult task to attach an insubstantial phantom beast, especially a lion of destruction, even if it is a <red thread> that connects fate.

Therefore, it is beyond the scope of one's own understanding.

By studying the bodies of Naga, Coastria, and Bobonga, he managed to get those three parts in his hands.

"Anos. You are a lion whose five bodies are destroyed. I have only legs, eyes, and right arm." (Parrington)

A red-black magical power is released from Artzenon's claws.

...

"You, an imperfect lion with no trump claws, can't beat me with three claws!" (Parrington)


Let's go over the situation presented here. Anos has the power of the Lion of Destruction in all five of his body parts (What is meant by destroyed is that the other three Lions of Destruction; Naga, Kostoria, and Bobonga, are all missing a body part, but the power of the Lion of Destruction resides in that missing body part, meanwhile Anos has all his body parts intact while the power of the Lion of Destruction resides in all of his body parts), yet he is still an imperfect Lion. Parrington has the power of the Lion of Destruction in three of his body parts, and is obviously imperfect as well. Of course, Anos having five Lion body parts trumps Parrington's three, it's just that if Parrington who has three out of five Lion body parts has immense power that at most is only on the level of destroying a single deep world, then absolutely nothing suggests that Anos who has two more body parts and is still imperfect, would have the power to destroy the entire Silver Sea.
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This is my argument for why Anos should have his 2B tier removed for now. If you can, without the shadow of a doubt, prove me wrong about Anos not being proven to be able to destroy the entire Silver Sea, then I won't ever make a post like this again.
 
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Neutral on this for now.

Your Venuzdonoa arguments were already debunked in previous threads, so I'm not gonna debunk them again. If you actually bring new arguments instead of recycling old ones, I'll try to debunk them.

Your entire Lion of Destruction argument is basically that Anos shouldn't have a 2-B rating because he only has 2-B statements and not 2-B feats, and also because characters who obviously aren't 2-B, but are kind of similar to Anos, only have Low 2-C feats, Anos should scale to their feats, when he's obviously superior to them and constantly suppressing his power.

I can maybe agree to a "Likely 2-B" for Anos' True Power key, which is the key for when he uses ALL of his power, since he mostly only has 2-B statements, but I'm not yet convinced that he shouldn't have a solid 2-B rating.
 
The counter that were given to most of the Venuzdonoa agurment was that it had performed well even in the deep layer
 
imZer0Null said:
Neutral on this for now.

Your Venuzdonoa arguments were already debunked in previous threads, so I'm not gonna debunk them again. If you actually bring new arguments instead of recycling old ones, I'll try to debunk them.

Your entire Lion of Destruction argument is basically that Anos shouldn't have a 2-B rating because he only has 2-B statements and not 2-B feats, and also because characters who obviously aren't 2-B, but are kind of similar to Anos, only have Low 2-C feats, Anos should scale to their feats, when he's obviously superior to them and constantly suppressing his power.

I can maybe agree to a "Likely 2-B" for Anos' True Power key, which is the key for when he uses ALL of his power, since he mostly only has 2-B statements, but I'm not yet convinced that he shouldn't have a solid 2-B rating.
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The reasoning behind my statements being "debunked", is that since Venuzdonoa can still function in deeper layers, that means that "all of creation" can be extended to mean the entire Silver Sea. I have further elaborated on my original point in 6. 7. and 8. Please prove these points to be false.

As for my Lion of Destruction argument, did you even fully read through it? It's likely that the statement in the first place isn't even 2B, because it doesn't say that Anos can destroy the entire Silver Sea at once, it says that Anos will go on to destroy the Silver Sea, and it's highly implied to mean one at a time via bubbles and worlds being destroyed. Continuing to rampage and destroy worlds one by one (which is implied), isn't equal to the 2B feat of destroying/affecting the entire Silver Sea at once.
 
Ya know what? Since I dont care about Maou Gakuin enough to check, Given there is not a single small building busting feat in this verse. Lets just downgrade Anos to 9-B and just call it a day.
 
In all seriousness, assuming that worlds=universes=space-time continuum's in MG, I'm fine leaving Anos' tier at 2-C, likely higher.

Anyways, are worlds flowing at different times enough to qualify them as space-time continnum's? I mean, the other planets in our solar system have their time flow differently from ours.
 
AncientKing95 said:
The reasoning behind my statements being "debunked", is that since Venuzdonoa can still function in deeper layers, that means that "all of creation" can be extended to mean the entire Silver Sea. I have further elaborated on my original point in 6. 7. and 8. Please prove these points to be false.
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No. It was also debunked since Venuzdonoa doesn't have anti-feats. It can still destroy all things in creation until proved otherwise.
Also, explain to me why the author only used "all of creation" in the Venuzdonoa statement and nowhere else. If he was simply referring to Anos' universe, wouldn't he have used "world" instead, like he almost consistently does throughout the entire series? Oops. I forgot world = planet.

You also need much more proof to say that all of creation =/= all of creation. Saying all of creation =/= all of creation simply because he didn't know the full extent of creation, when he also stated "no matter how tough, eternal or infinite", which means that the durability and size of said creation is completely irrelevant to this statement, simply isn't enough proof.
 
AncientKing95 said:
In all seriousness, assuming that worlds=universes=space-time continuum's in MG, I'm fine leaving Anos' tier at 2-C, likely higher.

Anyways, are worlds flowing at different times enough to qualify them as space-time continnum's? I mean, the other planets in our solar system have their time flow differently from ours.
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It's qualifed enough to be Considered as Casually dissconected world, you can read the terminology, again
 
On this wiki, characters with only statement and no actual feats backing them up get likely added to their tier, hence my preference for likely 2-B. I am not really concerned about Creation not equal to creation right now as I haven't really read the novel, I plan on reading it after my exams.
 
Well, this is the third attempt to Downgrade Anos ... Calculating, for the next month there will be 5 more attempts until they get tired and leave... and leaves us with this being unanimously rejected again, thank you very much for your contribution.
 
Dereck03 said:
Well, this is the third attempt to Downgrade Anos ... Calculating, for the next month there will be 5 more attempts until they get tired and leave... and leaves us with this being unanimously rejected again, thank you very much for your contribution.
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I did say in the title that this would be the very last one.
 
imZer0Null said:
No. It was also debunked since Venuzdonoa doesn't have anti-feats. It can still destroy all things in creation until proved otherwise.
Also, explain to me why the author only used "all of creation" in the Venuzdonoa statement and nowhere else. If he was simply referring to Anos' universe, wouldn't he have used "world" instead, like he almost consistently does throughout the entire series? Oops. I forgot world = planet.

You also need much more proof to say that all of creation =/= all of creation. Saying all of creation =/= all of creation simply because he didn't know the full extent of creation, when he also stated "no matter how tough, eternal or infinite", which means that the durability and size of said creation is completely irrelevant to this statement, simply isn't enough proof.
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What Anos was referring to by all of creation was his own universe. We all know that. That's the meaning of the statement. The statement never or even implied to limit Venuzdonoa to just working in the Militia World, just that it only confirmed that it can only destroy all things in creation no matter how eternal or infinite in the Militia World.

The same logic could be applied if Anos made the same statement with Venuzdonoa except in the Silver Sea this time. By your logic, what would be the point of the author referring to the Silver Sea as all of creation instead of just saying Silver Sea? Just accept the fact that Anos meant his own universe by all of creation. There's nothing to dispute there. But if you really had to ask me why, then 1) It was in Anos' words, so he made it sound as grandiose as possible, and 2) so he could really get across just how OP destroying the entire universe is.

It's not that Anos simply "didn't know the full extent of creation" , it's that what he thought was the full extent of creation was just his universe and everything in it. He didn't even entertain the possibility of even another world existing until Graham brought it up. So we know that Anos was referring to his own universe when he said all of creation.

He can destroy things no matter how eternal or infinite... in his own universe. That is the only thing confirmed. It isn't confirmed if he can destroy things in the Silver Sea no matter how eternal or infinite. You can't claim that there's no anti-feats, because all of creation never referred to the Silver Sea in the first place.
 
AncientKing95 said:
What Anos was referring to by all of creation was his own universe. We all know that. That's the meaning of the statement. The statement never or even implied to limit Venuzdonoa to just working in the Militia World, just that it only confirmed that it can only destroy all things in creation no matter how eternal or infinite in the Militia World.

The same logic could be applied if Anos made the same statement with Venuzdonoa except in the Silver Sea this time. By your logic, what would be the point of the author referring to the Silver Sea as all of creation instead of just saying Silver Sea? Just accept the fact that Anos meant his own universe by all of creation. There's nothing to dispute there. But if you really had to ask me why, then 1) It was in Anos' words, so he made it sound as grandiose as possible, and 2) so he could really get across just how OP destroying the entire universe is.

It's not that Anos simply "didn't know the full extent of creation" , it's that what he thought was the full extent of creation was just his universe and everything in it. He didn't even entertain the possibility of even another world existing until Graham brought it up. So we know that Anos was referring to his own universe when he said all of creation.

He can destroy things no matter how eternal or infinite... in his own universe. That is the only thing confirmed. It isn't confirmed if he can destroy things in the Silver Sea no matter how eternal or infinite. You can't claim that there's no anti-feats, because all of creation never referred to the Silver Sea in the first place.
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You didn't counter a single thing I said.
You made baseless assumptions again.
You didn't provide any proof that all of creation =/= all of creation.

I guess this argument is once again debunked.
 
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