Venuzdonoa/Anos possible downgrade

[Lormac_CC]

This is my first CRT. I believe Venuzdonoa shouldn't be 2-B.

Here's why

Note: Every scan and translation were gotten from past CRTs, the accepted cosmology blog for the verse and Anos page as I am not quite knowledgeable on the verse.

Reason why Venuzdonoa is 2-B

"Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in creation, no matter how strong, eternal or infinite they are"

I find problems in this statement been scaled to the entire Silversea for some reasons

1. Anos had not known about the existence of the Sliversea when he made this statement. Meaning he had no knowledge of creation outside of what he knew as creation which is the militia world.

2. Venuzdonoa is actually the order of destruction of the militia world, so it would sense for him to talk about the sword in such manner.

I can see counter arguments like "Since Venuzdonoa hasn't underperformed within worlds in the Silversea, the statement about it destroying all things in creation should scale to the silver sea".

Which could make sense if you ignore the fact that he had no knowledge of the silver sea, but I believe Venuzdonoa still been able to destroy things in the Silver sea is due to the fact that Anos is a Misfit.

A Misfit that exists outside the world's framework, order, reason and logic altogether.

This scan supports my agurment

"In this little world, which exists deeper than your little world, the power of all things is in another dimension. Strength, speed, stubbornness, magic, everything. Even a grain of air is a weight to you. If I unleash a spell to destroy your shallow world, it won't be able to destroy a single ship here."

"No, no. No, this is not possible. A person from the shallow world, much less a dweller from the first layer world, would crush the ship with a single step, no matter where you look in this Silver Sea, such an order does not exist!"

This statement proves that Anos can destroy things within a world of a deep layer in the Silversea because he doesn't follow that world's order.

Quote from the blog:

Order:

The various laws that make up the world, or the power of the gods that keep these laws normal. There are various orders such as “time”, “creation”, and “destruction”.

Order are the laws that define how the universe works or the concepts that maintain how these laws function

Both scans show that orders are bounded to universes, in each world, there is an order which is bounded to that world. This is all fine and good but here is the problem, There isn't an order that bounds whole layers nor is their an order that bounds the entire Sliversea. Hence, he shouldn't be 2-B

Conclusion:
Since Venuzdonoa hasn't performed any Multiversal feat, it should be rated as low 2-C till their are actual feats to justify the 2-B rating.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Anos had not known about the existence of the Sliversea when he made this statement. Meaning he had no knowledge of creation outside of what he knew as creation which is the militia world.

Can you threw the scan of what he doesn't know?

Both scans show that orders are bounded to universes, in each world, there is an order which is bounded to that world. This is all fine and good but here is the problem, There isn't an order that bounds whole layers nor is their an order that bounds the entire Sliversea. Hence, he shouldn't be 2-B

that's a good point, but if Anos is know of Silver Sea, it can be debunked.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Can you threw the scan of what he doesn't know?

He didn't know about the silver sea

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

I mean it's proof that he's not knowing before

 

[Dereck03]

This has been discussed many times before, let's see how it progresses now.

 

[Dereck03]

also don't forget to add the "maou gakuin no futekigousha" or "Anos Voldigoad" category to the thread to make it easier to find.

 

[Dereck03]

still been able to destroy things in the Silver sea is due to the fact that Anos is a Misfit.

Venuzdunoa does not destroy things just because anos is a Misfit, take for example Sasha she can use Venuzdunoa and destroy things in the depper layers and she is not a misfit.

 

[Guileal]

Well, come on, I would like a proof that Venuzdonoa does not act with the same power in the other layers, well, a proof that refutes this is the fact that she was able to cut the Abyssal Thrist of the Abyssal World, which is as deep as the 99+ layers.


Another thing is that each layer contains countless universes within it which would qualify any one of them as a Multiversal level.
The first world-destroying spell of the Years is said to be able to destroy it hundreds of thousands of times There are several other things that refute this but I will let other members answer, I am busy with TnY

 

[Pepsiman25th]

if anos gets downgraded then the rimuru wankers are gonna have a field day with this

 

[Dereck03]

let's take into account the fact that in each layer the difference is already as big as you can see, actually Anos and venuzdonoa have been able to destroy everything that has been put in front of them, the inhabitants of the deppest layers see the universes of the upper layers as if they were shogi pieces, it would count as if they could affect all the universes of the Shallow layers and that each layer has a seemingly "infinite" size and venuzdunoa no matter how infinite it is, still destroys everything, and anos is much superior to venuzdonoa.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Well, come on, I would like a proof that Venuzdonoa does not act with the same power in the other layers, well, a proof that refutes this is the fact that she was able to cut the Abyssal Thrist of the Abyssal World, which is as deep as the 99+ layers.

Scan isn't working

 

[Lormac_CC]

Another thing is that each layer contains countless universes within it which would qualify any one of them as a Multiversal level.
The first world-destroying spell of the Years is said to be able to destroy it hundreds of thousands of times There are several other things that refute this but I will let other members answer, I am busy with TnY

The scan shows that the world is pretty deep in the sea, but an order is still pretty much bounded to that world

 

[Dereck03]

Scan isn't working

here

 

[Dereck03]

The main argument that venuzdonoa can destroy all things in the Silver Sea just because anos is a Misfit can be debunked with Sasha who is able to use venuzdonoa in the deepest layers being able to destroy whatever she wants to destroy, then also the inhabitants of the deepest layers who are able to see the layers and the universes of the upper layers as shogi pieces (as a game and destroy them whenever they want), are not misfits, you also say that the orders are only tied to their own universe, but there is also god who is above all the other gods and his order is in the head ruling the respective gods of each universe with their respective orders, Venuzdunoa who possesses an order of destruction of a shallow layer, is capable of destroying everything, including the deepest layers, no matter the fact that Anos is misfit because in fact he is not the only one who can weild venuzdunoa.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Didn't Sasha get a power boost along with other students

 

[Dereck03]

Didn't Sasha get a power boost along with other students

she got a boost along with the others, but it does not imply that she became a misfit, if we compare them with anos, they are nothing, they are just able to keep up with the inhabitants of the deepest layers.

 

[Dereck03]

having said that what anos said about venuzdonoa (including whether or not he knew about the existence of the silver sea), Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in creation, no matter how strong, eternal or infinite they are, still includes everything since anos and venuzdunoa have not faced anything that they cannot destroy, the only thing that venuzdonoa has not been able to destroy is anos himself, and that is why it is specified that anos is far superior to venuzdonoa

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

The main argument that venuzdonoa can destroy all things in the Silver Sea just because anos is a Misfit can be debunked with Sasha who is able to use venuzdonoa in the deepest layers being able to destroy whatever she wants to destroy, then also the inhabitants of the deepest layers who are able to see the layers and the universes of the upper layers as shogi pieces (as a game and destroy them whenever they want), are not misfits, you also say that the orders are only tied to their own universe, but there is also god who is above all the other gods and his order is in the head ruling the respective gods of each universe with their respective orders, Venuzdunoa who possesses an order of destruction of a shallow layer, is capable of destroying everything, including the deepest layers, no matter the fact that Anos is misfit because in fact he is not the only one who can weild venuzdunoa.

If that's the argument, I think it would be better to include it on Venuzdonoa's AP justification, since "can destroy anything on creation doesn't matter as strong or infinite" alone seems as vague and NLF as hell. At least for me.

 

[Lormac_CC]

she got a boost along with the others, but it does not imply that she became a misfit, if we compare them with anos, they are nothing, they are just able to keep up with the inhabitants of the deepest layers.

Deep layer inhabitants are able to destroy things in their world normally. Sasha using Venuzdonoa to destroy things in a deep layer shouldn't be used as an agurment since her mate were able to keep up with the inhabitants of the world. She could channel her power through it

 

[Dereck03]

If that's the argument, I think it would be better to include it on Venuzdonoa's AP justification, since "can destroy anything on creation doesn't matter as strong or infinite" alone seems as vague and NLF as hell. At least for me.

Well, it may sound NLF, so all those who agree to the upgrade and those who continue to defend the argument I don't know what they are thinking then, NLF would be him saying that but not destroying anything, Venuzdonoa has proven to destroy everything he has faced (except for anos).

 

[Lormac_CC]

having said that what anos said about venuzdonoa (including whether or not he knew about the existence of the silver sea), Venuzdonoa can destroy all things in creation, no matter how strong, eternal or infinite they are, still includes everything since anos and venuzdunoa have not faced anything that they cannot destroy, the only thing that venuzdonoa has not been able to destroy is anos himself, and that is why it is specified that anos is far superior to venuzdonoa

I already talked about this in the OP.

 

[Dereck03]

Deep layer inhabitants are able to destroy things in there world normally. Sasha using Venuzdonoa to destroy things in a deep layer shouldn't be used as an agurment since her mate were able to keep up with the inhabitants of the world. She could channeled her power through it

They are able to keep up with the inhabitants of the deepest layers, but only sasha has wielded venuzdonoa.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Well, it may sound NLF, so all those who agree to the upgrade and those who continue to defend the argument I don't know what they are thinking, NLF would be him saying that but not destroying anything, Venuzdonoa has proven to destroy everything he has faced (except for anos).

Yes, I know. And that's why I think that something that proofs the 2-B AP should be included, not just the description of the powers with no justification about it being multiverse level

 

[Dereck03]

I already talked about this in the OP.

Well, then we just wait for more people to come and give their arguments, as I said before this has been discussed before, we will see what happens now.

 

[Dereck03]

Yes, I know. And that's why I think that something that proofs the 2-B AP should be included, not just the description of the powers with no justification about it being multiverse level

I can agree with you, so we will see how they take things in hand now. As I said it has already been discussed many times including the staff members and they have been in agreement.

 

[Lormac_CC]

Well, then we just wait for more people to come and give their arguments, as I said before this has been discussed before, we will see what happens now.

Yea, Oblivion, he/she is a supporter of the verse. I would like get his/her input

 

[Dereck03]

Yea, Oblivion, he/she is a supporter of the verse. I would like get his/her input

his opinion is probably the same as mine, since he was the one who presented the CRT for 2-B, but let's wait for his opinion anyway.

 

[AncientKing95]

Well, come on, I would like a proof that Venuzdonoa does not act with the same power in the other layers, well, a proof that refutes this is the fact that she was able to cut the Abyssal Thrist of the Abyssal World, which is as deep as the 99+ layers.


Another thing is that each layer contains countless universes within it which would qualify any one of them as a Multiversal level.
The first world-destroying spell of the Years is said to be able to destroy it hundreds of thousands of times There are several other things that refute this but I will let other members answer, I am busy with TnY

Anos didn't cut off the Abyssal Thirst of Eavezeino with Venuzdonoa. He did so with his Magic Eyes of Chaotic Destruction (definitely) as well as the Two Rites Sword (possibly). Venuzdonoa had nothing to do with this feat. Also, the Abyssal Thirst of Eavezeino isn't 99+ layers deep. You're completely off the mark. The Abyss of the Silver Sea and the Abyss of Eavezeino are two completely different things. The one that is 99+ layers deep is the Abyss of the Silver Sea. At the moment, we only know that 21+ layers of the Silver Sea have actually been explored so far, not 99+.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I mean...

-Venuzdonoa can still neatly function in deeper layers, so its not limited to a single universe destruction.
-Anos' Egil Grone Angdroa is able to destroy hundreds of thousands of universes with it.
-Anos destroyed the Abyssal Thirst with his Chaotic Eye (which is more powerful than venuzdonoa). Abyssal Thirst relies deeper than the 21th layer, which would still be a 2-B feat.

 

[AncientKing95]

let's take into account the fact that in each layer the difference is already as big as you can see, actually Anos and venuzdonoa have been able to destroy everything that has been put in front of them, the inhabitants of the deppest layers see the universes of the upper layers as if they were shogi pieces, it would count as if they could affect all the universes of the Shallow layers and that each layer has a seemingly "infinite" size and venuzdunoa no matter how infinite it is, still destroys everything, and anos is much superior to venuzdonoa.

False. Inhabitants of deeper layers don't see more shallow universes as shogi pieces. Universes, aka the Fire and Dew of a Universe which is linked to a Universe can be used as a "shogi piece" in special occasions. For starters, any universe can be used as a "shogi piece" deep or shallow. But universes themselves aren't seen as them.

 

[AncientKing95]

I mean...

-Venuzdonoa can still neatly function in deeper layers, so its not limited to a single universe destruction.
-Anos' Egil Grone Angdroa is able to destroy hundreds of thousands of universes with it.
-Anos destroyed the Abyssal Thirst with his Chaotic Eye (which is more powerful than venuzdonoa). Abyssal Thirst relies deeper than the 21th layer, which would still be a 2-B feat.

Again, the Abyssal Thirst isn't 99+ layers deep. It's part of the Abyssal World Eavezino.

 

[Musaabu02]

1. Anos had not known about the existence of the Sliversea when he made this statement. Meaning he had no knowledge of creation outside of what he knew as creation which is the militia world.

My exact thoughts to.

Conclusion:
Since Venuzdonoa hasn't performed any Multiversal feat, it should be rated as low 2-C till their are actual feats to justify the 2-B rating.

I agree with this and nowadays people rate statements than feat infact.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Again, the Abyssal Thirst isn't 99+ layers deep. It's part of the Abyssal World Eavezino.

Did you read what you quoted?

 

[Musaabu02]

Can you threw the scan of what he doesn't know?

that's a good point, but if Anos is know of Silver Sea, it can be debunked.

Until we see a scan he knew about about silver sea before making such a statement,I think its stale.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Until we see a scan he knew about about silver sea before making such a statement,I think its stale.

I mean, that ultimately doesnt matter for reasons I already stated

 

[Musaabu02]

I mean it's proof that he's not knowing before

Your the one whose actually meant to bring scans he knew about silver sea before he made that statement.

 

[AncientKing95]

Did you read what you quoted?

Yes, you said that the Abyssal Thirst "relies"(?) deeper than the 99th layer which is incorrect.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yes, you said that the Abyssal Thirst "relies"(?) deeper than the 99th layer which is incorrect.

You should probably read again

 

[AncientKing95]

I read it three times over. Just clarify yourself.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I mean...

-Venuzdonoa can still neatly function in deeper layers, so its not limited to a single universe destruction.
-Anos' Egil Grone Angdroa is able to destroy hundreds of thousands of universes with it.
-Anos destroyed the Abyssal Thirst with his Chaotic Eye (which is more powerful than venuzdonoa). Abyssal Thirst relies deeper than the 21th layer, which would still be a 2-B feat.