Ainz vs Aqua (Konosuba) Speed Equal

[Gabriel_00]

Wiz and Vanir have resistance to soul manipulation due to being able to resist turn undead from weaker high priests, and aqua is able to oneshot them using her turn undead.

i'ts the same situation against ainz.

@Muchacho even if aqua's durability was as low as you are saying, that doesn't matter in this fight because that would imply a long battle when in fact would come down to the first move of each character, mening Grasp Heart vs Turn Undead.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@Gariel 00

I think you've ignored the important point there? His magical defense is too high, you're comparing him to people that would die or have life threatening injuries from 1 [Explosion Spell]

The moment [Grasp Heart] fails and [Turn Undead] fails and his emotional suppressant kicks in he would run away. I mean, that is his tactic in PVP, to run away from first encounters to then come back with countermeasures. Let's say in this case they wanted to kill the other for some reason and have no intention of running away...The moment AOE spells as well as teleportation come into play, Aqua has lost. I would say time spells, but let's leave that out since that magic doesn't exist in Konosuba and Ainz himself needs to have his ring to resist it (countermeasures)

 

[Gabriel_00]

The good old Nasuverse magic resistance.

Why would Ainz magical resistance and Soul be higher than Vanir/Wiz?

And Ainz ain't tanking a Turn Undead.

 

[JorgeDaJiboia]

This is anoying. There is holy elemental magic weakness on Ainz profile and you say "i dont understand how holy magic would be effective on Ainz".

"His magical defense is too high" higher than High 6-C? Aqua also has "too high" magical attack potency.

Wiz and Vanir both also have high magical defense, as well as Soul Manipulation resistance (and they are High 6-C), and Aqua could oneshot them. Turn Undead wouldn't fail.

Ainz would use Grasp Heart as its his favorite spell while Aqua prepared Turn Undead. Grasp Heart would go first because of silent cast > fails > Turn Undead happens > Ainz dead

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

The good old Nasuverse magic resistance.
Why would Ainz magical resistance and Soul be higher than Vanir/Wiz

And Ainz ain't tanking a Turn Undead.

Because their magical resistance die to [Explosion] or (somehow nearly dead), something Ainz would tank. Also his soul's strength was never mentioned in the novels, what gives him resistance was from a side-story where he was hit with something that would have extinguished his soul. There are spells that would target the soul, although not confirmed (Hellfire wall that did no damage to the body: volume 6 chapter 10 Evileye's analysis)

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

This is anoying. There is holy elemental magic weakness on Ainz profile and you say "i dont understand how holy magic would be effective on Ainz".
"His magical defense is too high" higher than High 6-C? Aqua also has "too high" magical attack potency.

Wiz and Vanir both also have high magical defense, as well as Soul Manipulation resistance (and they are High 6-C), and Aqua could oneshot them. Turn Undead wouldn't fail.

Ainz would use Grasp Heart as its his favorite spell while Aqua prepared Turn Undead. Grasp Heart would go first because of silent cast > fails > Turn Undead happens > Ainz dead

I've already linked CRT twice and have already stated those tiers are false. I'm willing to debate anyone in that thread, but please bring quotes.

 

[JorgeDaJiboia]

So we can all agree Ainz would definetly lose unless Aqua is severely nerfed? Or will you pull another argument from nowhere to make Aqua less powerful than what she is just so your favorite character can win the fight?

And even if she goes to 7-B equal to Ainz, she would still win FRA.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@JorgeDaJiboia

'nerfed', 'less powerful than what she is'

Her page is full of headcanon, I haven't been on here for long but I've read all 4 Isekai Quartet series and was not aware of her page, or pages of Konosuba Character (holy shit someone was high on drugs)

Also Ainz is not my favorite character (Lord Touch-Me), I won't rate her to tier until CRT is adressed

 

[Bonesdrowy]

So we can all agree Ainz would definetly lose unless Aqua is severely nerfed? Or will you pull another argument from nowhere to make Aqua less powerful than what she is just so your favorite character can win the fight?
And even if she goes to 7-B equal to Ainz, she would still win FRA.

Don't go accusing other users and throwing a fit, if you feel he's unfairly downgrading Aqua then respond to the CRT thread with actual evidence.

Also

[This is anoying. There is holy elemental magic weakness on Ainz profile and you say "i dont understand how holy magic would be effective on Ainz".

"His magical defense is too high" higher than High 6-C? Aqua also has "too high" magical attack potency.

Wiz and Vanir both also have high magical defense, as well as Soul Manipulation resistance (and they are High 6-C), and Aqua could oneshot them. Turn Undead wouldn't fail.

Ainz would use Grasp Heart as its his favorite spell while Aqua prepared Turn Undead. Grasp Heart would go first because of silent cast > fails > Turn Undead happens > Ainz dead]

1. You would mind providing the quotes of Aqua one shotting them or them resisting weaker turn undead?

2. Can you actually explain what turn undead is? Or how it works? Is it just holy damage? Or is it holy damage that ends up EE/SM? Or does it do holy damage and then EE/SM afterwards? I still don't see how EE scales to tiering.

3. [Grasp Heart] also stuns the opponent should it fail btw.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

So we can all agree Ainz would definetly lose unless Aqua is severely nerfed? Or will you pull another argument from nowhere to make Aqua less powerful than what she is just so your favorite character can win the fight?
And even if she goes to 7-B equal to Ainz, she would still win FRA.

Don't go accusing other users and throwing a fit, if you feel he's unfairly downgrading Aqua then respond to the CRT thread with actual evidence.
Also

[This is anoying. There is holy elemental magic weakness on Ainz profile and you say "i dont understand how holy magic would be effective on Ainz".

"His magical defense is too high" higher than High 6-C? Aqua also has "too high" magical attack potency.

Wiz and Vanir both also have high magical defense, as well as Soul Manipulation resistance (and they are High 6-C), and Aqua could oneshot them. Turn Undead wouldn't fail.

Ainz would use Grasp Heart as its his favorite spell while Aqua prepared Turn Undead. Grasp Heart would go first because of silent cast > fails > Turn Undead happens > Ainz dead]

1. You would mind providing the quotes of Aqua one shotting them or them resisting weaker turn undead?

2. Can you actually explain what turn undead is? Or how it works? Is it just holy damage? Or is it holy damage that ends up EE/SM? Or does it do holy damage and then EE/SM afterwards? I still don't see how EE scales to tiering.

3. [Grasp Heart] also stuns the opponent should it fail btw.

1. No need to provide quotes, it's in the anime too. Problem is they're scaling demon general magic resistances and durability too high

2. It purifies the undead, ridding them of all negative energy and send their soul (probably to heaven), since she thinks of it as laying their soul to rest and with heaven being against someone having another life, undead are defying that as well as 'filth' in Aqua's eyes (Kazuma's reviving is breaking rules, she put pressure on Eris to send him back if he dies). It can be resisted depending on the person's magic resistance for example Wiz nearly disappearing from just a [Turn Undead], also items can also resist her spell, i've listed above what happened to Beldia who had holy resistant armor enchanted by the demon king (tanked a lot)

 

[Gabriel_00]

Megumin has a 6-C feat, Megumin<Vanir/Wiz<Aqua i don't get why you are so insistant on downgrading aqua

Aqua almost purified Wiz without even trying wich left her incapacitated for a few days and kazuma only came back because the godess alowed him, and yes beldia's armor was resistant, and Ainz is weak.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

If you want to be techinical his robes offer him holy immunity in overlord, he also has turn resistance three and he is also resistant to soul manip/existence erasure on top of it. Not saying that would allow him to resist just listing his resistances.

 

[JorgeDaJiboia]

If you want to be techinical his robes offer him holy immunity in overlord, he also has turn resistance three and he is also resistant to soul manip/existence erasure on top of it. Not saying that would allow him to resist just listing his resistances.

His profile says he needs prep time to access those tho

 

[Gabriel_00]

Being immune>resistant but that shouldn't bypass tiers being resistant to something just mens you are able to mitigate damage from that source for example being resistant to fire damage doesn't make you immune to it all the way up to tier 3.

Ainz would get oneshoted by aqua, and then his soul would get sent to heaven, wiz only resisted the part where she was "purified from the mortal plane".

"Resistance is the ability to lessen the effectiveness of certain techniques and abilities through whatever means, such as greatly decreasing the potency of Mind Manipulation or nullifying it altogether. In many cases, it can occur through sheer willpower, especially in the case of mental attacks. For any ability, resistance to that ability can be demonstrated, to varying degrees of effectiveness, ranging from slight and mostly inconsequential to extremely high, potentially completely nullifying those abilities. However, like everything else, resistance has to be judged based on feats.

The highest degree of resistance is outright Immunity, preventing use of that ability on any scale from affecting the user at all. However, immunity is not easily gained, as while someone's resistance to a certain kind of attack may be absolute within their verse, it is not necessarily the case against more potent uses of that ability. Outright immunity should nearly never be given except in certain cases, such as being immune to Soul Manipulation due to lacking a soul."

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Turning resistance 3 is a skill and existence erasure/soul manip is from his standard equipment. Its not specified that he needs prep time just that he can negate either fire or holy damage with his equipment, saying that if it would make this more fair I can add ainz has his holy resistant gear to the op....

 

[Gabriel_00]

Considering what his profile says i don't think either are his standard equipment

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Note I said immunity in overlord specifically, and hax doesn't scale to teir....

 

[Gabriel_00]

I really don't know where the "Hax doesn't scale to tier" thing came from, it isn't on the Hax nor on the Resistance page

 

[JorgeDaJiboia]

Turning resistance 3 is a skill and existence erasure/soul manip is from his standard equipment. Its not specified that he needs prep time just that he can negate either fire or holy damage with his equipment, saying that if it would make this more fair I can add ainz has his holy resistant gear to the op....

"Standard Equipment: Ainz has access to a pocket dimension which contains all of his items. He can connect it to his treasury if given prep time, which gives him access to his old allies' divine items, and his guild's world-class items. He can retrieve items by opening small portals into his inventory. With prep, he can use cash shop items to lower cast times for super-tier spells or switch weapons instantly without having to reach into his inventory."

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

'Established 6C'
This is why i'm wondering what is wrong with the person that decided these tiers, especially this person that failed to notice clouds . Her level rises, her radius was only ever mentioned once but Kazuma always noticed the heat rises. The consistent thing in every volume of the main series is their radius, not a single Crimson demon, demon general, Wiz, Aqua, Megumin, evil goddess, none reached Beginer town's size in radius .

Fact: The only established radius of Megumin's explosion was volume 1
[After the dust settled, a crater twenty meters in diameter revealed where the frog had been, showing how powerful the explosion was.] - Volume 1 Chapter 1


Fact: Wiz, who used explosion magic out performed Megumin, nothing about radius (covering Destroyer)
[The side Wiz was responsible for didn't have anything raining down, her explosion having blown the pieces into dust.
On the other hand, there were several large pieces of debris falling here and there on Megumin's side.] - Volume 2 Chapter 5

Between Volume 1 and 4 noteworthy times she's used her explosion:
Practises on Beldia's castle (failed to destroy castle)
Beldia's army (remember established 20 meter crater, Megumin is still the same level)
Other practises
On Destroyer (failed to vaporize legs)
On Darkness
On Hans (Kazuma's mansion size)

 

[Gabriel_00]

Why are you so insistant on radius? AoE has little to do with actual AP but i guess Goku isn't 3-A amymore fro not destroying an universe with every attack, Whe should also downgrade Naruto's durability because sakura is able to hurt him, and downgrade Whitebeard for taking bullet wounds.

 

[Jimboydejuan12]

we come on hurry Grace end right now.

 

[NeoSuperior]

No, these votes were before the Aqua CRT. They need to be reset.

 

[Jimboydejuan12]

godamm we going on Aqua CRT instead talking about reset vote.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

All right enough of this nonsense, neither side is completely right here, both sides have win conditions so just vote and stop making the same circular arguments.

 

[Bonesdrowy]

All right enough of this nonsense, neither side is completely right here, both sides have win conditions so just vote and stop making the same circular arguments.

Votes wouldn't count since there's another CRT for Konosuba that could significantly downgrade things, especially since the calc that gives the 7-B feat everyone scales to is somewhat wrong.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Why are you so insistant on radius? AoE has little to do with actual AP but i guess Goku isn't 3-A amymore fro not destroying an universe with every attack, Whe should also downgrade Naruto's durability because sakura is able to hurt him, and downgrade Whitebeard for taking bullet wounds.

I keep saying radius as the calculations made disregard main novel feats. The first calculation is based on the anime while the second is based on a spinoff not written by the author nor illustrated by the main illustrator. Especially the second calculations that is contradicts volume 5 feat by Megumin, we've derailed this, come on over https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3118478

 

[Gabriel_00]

To be honest, this thread should be closed and forgoten, as Muchacho will just keep try to downgrade aqua and give ainz the win and refuse to listen to any argument.

if people start voting again Ainz will inevitably win due to popularity.

@Muchacho you said in the CRT that the creator made too much assumptions, when you made even more in assuming they only freezed the surface of the lake. If a calc comes from a spin off that doesn't contradict the original and the result makes sense in the context of the story it is a suporting calc.

Even if aqua is downgraded to the same tier as Ainz she would still oneshot him, and if she is downgraded to tier 8 or something, then this thread becomes a stomp.

 

[Bonesdrowy]

To be honest, this thread should be closed and forgoten, as Muchacho will just keep try to downgrade aqua and give ainz the win and refuse to listen to any argument.
if people start voting again Ainz will inevitably win due to popularity.

@Muchacho you said in the CRT that the creator made too much assumptions, when you made even more in assuming they only freezed the surface of the lake. If a calc comes from a spin off that doesn't contradict the original and the result makes sense in the context of the story it is a suporting calc.

Even if aqua is downgraded to the same tier as Ainz she would still oneshot him, and if she is downgraded to tier 8 or something, then this thread becomes a stomp.

1. Complaining doesn't get you anywhere mate, if you feel that Muchacho is unfairly downgrading Aqua then respond to the CRT with actual evidence.

2. This is also unfair as he made some solid points against certain things in the CRT, such as the lightning speed feat for adventurers being base of a wrongly interpreted manga page. If you feel any of his specific points are unfair, wrong, etc then respond to the CRT rather than continually derailing this thread and ignoring the CRT.

3. He didn't make the assumption that the Crimson demons only froze the surface of the lake, that was me and he actually debated against it at first, so don't know what you read. Unless I skipped over one of his arguments, in that case my apologies.

4. The entire calc for the lake freeezing scene needs to be redone anyways since it used the much larger lakes in Japan that Wakasagi fish are found in, there are many others nearly 2-4 times smaller in water volume that Wakasagi are found in. Anyways, one does not fish Wakasagi in an entirely frozen lake, at that point your not fishing and instead just picking at ice until you reach the fish several meters below.

5. Again if you want to argue against any of his points in downgrading the verse then comment in the CRT, there are actually things needed to be change or addressed.

Whether Aqua wins or not is irrelevant as this thread can't even conclude until the CRT is concluded.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Firstly whether she stomps him or not doesn't matter, nobody else seems interested in CRT. Secondly I don't think Ainz would win here because of popularity? I mean, the guy is evil and probably a communist (2.0).

Let's answer your tag there. The CRT assumed the entire lake was frozen when we have no evidence of that nor how many were involved. He then chose a lake in Japan to base his calculations (even though there were smaller lakes available). Also in that same CRT he cropped an image from the manga spinoff that failed to show the top half? As well as the fact that the artist's adaptations doesn't fully follow the novel.

Getting to the Megumin calculations feats, the first is based on the anime finale adaptation of her "oblitirating" the destroyer as said in the light novel. After that not one person, not even side characters had noted that explosion's destructiveness or what it had done to the surroudings not even when Megumin was being interrogated and hurled at just the next volume about her [Explosion] magic.

After all this 12.25 megaton calculation should destroy a-lot more than the Destroyer right, fine let's say it was a mistake by the author and the animators nailed it, but wait, why was there no mention of any adventurers or Kazuma or even the forest suffering damage from this in the novel since it surpasses her previous feat just by visual and had them all in close proximity to Darkness both in the novel and in the anime. Why was the no mention of anyone receiving damage fromthis which should surpass the previous image since she's levelled up. What is consisten however is the crater she leaves , well sort of consistent

 

[Moritzva]

To be honest, this thread should be closed and forgoten, as Muchacho will just keep try to downgrade aqua and give ainz the win and refuse to listen to any argument.
if people start voting again Ainz will inevitably win due to popularity.

@Muchacho you said in the CRT that the creator made too much assumptions, when you made even more in assuming they only freezed the surface of the lake. If a calc comes from a spin off that doesn't contradict the original and the result makes sense in the context of the story it is a suporting calc.

Even if aqua is downgraded to the same tier as Ainz she would still oneshot him, and if she is downgraded to tier 8 or something, then this thread becomes a stomp.

The moment you start saying something is downplay is the moment it's clear your argument has nothing.

My vote remains the same. Ainz should win, low-diff.

 

[Gabriel_00]

Secondly I don't think Ainz would win here because of popularity? I mean, the guy is evil and probably a communist (2.0).

Wat?

 

[Gabriel_00]

The moment you start saying something is downplay is the moment it's clear your argument has nothing.

My vote remains the same. Ainz should win, low-diff.

You're talking as if i didn't said anything the whole thread, most of my points were either completely ignored or made a strawman of.

 

[Gabriel_00]

1. There's very little relevance to argue on that CRT as most of the points in discussion there are irrelevant to this thread. Speed is Equal, the calc in question is for the 7-B characters and the reasoning for wiz not being 6-C doesn't make sense, Explosion is a "useless magic" because of it's mana cost and even if she had low mana reserves she would still be 6-C considering mana/stamina don't relate to tier. A 9-C character that can throw a single 5-A punch is still a 5-A while using said punch.

2. Ainz only has 2 win conditions here: a) he manages to make the fight past the first few moments and eventually uses tgoalid or reality slash b) Aqua gets downgraded. Due to Aqua's superior tier, being able to target his weakness, bypassed other soul resistances and her natural bloodlust towards undead i doubt Ainz is getting past the first few moves.

 

[Moritzva]

Alright, what level of soul resistances has she bypassed?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

1. There's very little relevance to argue on that CRT as most of the points in discussion there are irrelevant to this thread. Speed is Equal, the calc in question is for the 7-B characters and the reasoning for wiz not being 6-C doesn't make sense, Explosion is a "useless magic" because of it's mana cost and even if she had low mana reserves she would still be 6-C considering mana/stamina don't relate to tier. A 9-C character that can throw a single 5-A punch is still a 5-A while using said punch.
2. Ainz only has 2 win conditions here: a) he manages to make the fight past the first few moments and eventually uses tgoalid or reality slash b) Aqua gets downgraded. Due to Aqua's superior tier, being able to target his weakness, bypassed other soul resistances and her natural bloodlust towards undead i doubt Ainz is getting past the first few moves.

Wiz does not scale to Megumin in [Explosion], Megumin had surpassed her before volume 9 at an unknown time. Wiz's output let her destroy 4 of the Destroyer's legs and that was it. Freezing magic? She can barely cover Kazuma's mansion size with all her mana.

The only scaling I was doing for Aqua was her durability + Speed, as well as to snap people to reality by the fact that she's actually another Ainz defeating weak people. Well, she does say 'compatibility' is key since she bowed to the Winger Shogun and accepted her defeat against the toads.

 

[JorgeDaJiboia]

So no arguments for how Ainz could win?

Ainz uses Grasp Heart, doesn't work. Aqua uses Turn Undead, Ainz is purified to heaven.

 

[Bonesdrowy]

1. There's very little relevance to argue on that CRT as most of the points in discussion there are irrelevant to this thread. Speed is Equal, the calc in question is for the 7-B characters and the reasoning for wiz not being 6-C doesn't make sense, Explosion is a "useless magic" because of it's mana cost and even if she had low mana reserves she would still be 6-C considering mana/stamina don't relate to tier. A 9-C character that can throw a single 5-A punch is still a 5-A while using said punch.
2. Ainz only has 2 win conditions here: a) he manages to make the fight past the first few moments and eventually uses tgoalid or reality slash b) Aqua gets downgraded. Due to Aqua's superior tier, being able to target his weakness, bypassed other soul resistances and her natural bloodlust towards undead i doubt Ainz is getting past the first few moves.

1. Again if you feel the reasoning for Wiz not being 6-C "doesn't make sense" then go to the damn CRT rather than derailing the thread. The CRT is calling for a donwgrade in Wiz's tier and the only 7-B feat that every character scales to, it does hold a relevance to this thread, either way its still a CRT thereefore this thread can't be concluded until its done, otherwise it'll need to be redone.

2. First of all, I already mentioned this, but it seemed to been ignored. Grasp Heart also stuns the opponent should it fail to cause its instant death effect, whats Aqua resistance to being stunned? Also I don't think we ever discuss Aqua's resistance to time stop, I see 'unconventional' time manipulation on her page, what does that mean?

3. Instead of complaining "Ainz only wins through downgrad" Take it to the CRT that you've been ignoring rather than continually push any discussion of it to this thread, which is a derailment.

Also eariler you said everyone ignored your points, but it seems you've ignored a whole page of arguments due to fustration.

 

[Moritzva]

Ainz resists soul manip.

What is her Death Manip. Resistance potency?

 

[FDrybob]

As several people have said already, wait for the CRT to conclude.