Ainz vs Aqua (Konosuba) Speed Equal

[Gabriel_00]

@ThePixelKirby i've alredy adressed this point, and she only resists death manipulation, it's on her profile.

@Bonesdrowy

1. I'll go to the CRT later, but i will only meet you and muchacho there? what's the point then? We'll just have a repeat of what is hapening here.

2. A 7-B stuning a 6-C means very little and due to her holy aura she wound't just resist grasp heart.

3. I'm not complaing, i'm presenting the facts as nobody has presented any argument in Ainz favor other than attacking Aqua's profile.

I ignored arguments, because most of them were the same "Ainz resists soul manipulation/EE" or ignoring things already adressed earlier. I am indeed frustrated because i'm being forced to repeat myself over and over without my argument actually being adressed but then sudenly i am the one derailing the thread.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ive added ainz is in his holy resist equipment to the op, not sure if that makes this any more fair or not but Im not overly invested at this point....

 

[Moritzva]

@ThePixelKirby i've alredy adressed this point, and she only resists death manipulation, it's on her profile.

What level of death manip? Without feats, she doesn't resist it nearly enough to not get one-shot by Ainz.

 

[JorgeDaJiboia]

@pen I dont know... maybe if they were at the same tier, cause I still think Aqua's attack potency is too high for his resistance. How good is that robe? And with the speed equal its not a stomp for her anymore, so "more fair" sounds confusing to me.

@pixel lol, you didn't read anything from this thread and her profile, did you?

@bone her divine aura negates Ainz's dark magic before it reaches her. And she has her hagoromo that nullifies status effect. So no, she wouldn't be stunned.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

In overlord it makes him immune to all holy attacks so decently good.

 

[Moritzva]

@pen I dont know... maybe if they were at the same tier, cause I still think Aqua's attack potency is too high for his resistance. How good is that robe? And with the speed equal its not a stomp for her anymore, so "more fair" sounds confusing to me.
@pixel lol, you didn't read anything from this thread and her profile, did you?

@bone her divine aura negates Ainz's dark magic before it reaches her. And she has her hagoromo that nullifies status effect. So no, she wouldn't be stunned.

Since you think that's true, then humor me. How strong is her resistance?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Considering Wiz's mana reserve, feat she's capable of + durability (scaling to other demon generals). Ainz would more than survive a few turn undead. I would count Vanir but his real body is in the demon world so Aqua has no permanent solution. I should also state that undead and demon for her purification are different. If she were to use her current strongest holy spell for demons [Sacred Exorcism], she would one shot dukes of hell with it and she already has but if she were to use it against non-pure devils then she would only hurt them. Getting back to the first point, an enchanted armor with holy resistance had resisted Aqua's [Turn Undead], [Sacred Turn Undead] X2 + [Flood] (water his weakness). Scaling this two universes and [holy immune] gear would more than likely be negated. Beldia is weaker than Wiz and would have died to Aqua's first holy spell or definetly her next.


Aqua would more than likely just die to his first AOE spell , her winning conditions are:

• No AOE spells from Ainz
• No teleportation from Ainz
• No gear or magic to resist/immune holy from Ainz

This is however another universe so Ainz would most likely lose to Aqua if he were to face her in her world. Aqua's winning conditions will be created + comedy = Ainz defeated. It was never stated divinity cannot die and we do have one that jobbed to one megumin spell although she only had half her power left she was still a goddess, well this is Konosuba so it would go like "aah, undead! Didn't you know gods as high as me cannot die! Your nuclear spell had no effect, the entire time I was faking my injuries in my own series for comedy!"


Let's say it happened in Ainz world without anyone interfering, then Aqua would be bringing her durability over and being stabbed and bleeding from Kazuma's dagger and scalding her hand from hot spring source water really aren't good things. I do want to scale their material, especially since adamantite is one of the hardest material in Konosuba world but it shouldn't be the same across other fictions. Also Aqua has magic resistance, it's not always active, for example if someone used [Drain Touch] and she was aware, then she would resist it from any character in that world but if she was caught off guard then even Kazuma would drain her.

 

[JorgeDaJiboia]

Aqua would more than likely just die to his first AOE spell , her winning conditions are:

• No AOE spells from Ainz
• No teleportation from Ainz
• No gear or magic to resist/immune holy from Ainz

Yes, so Ainz uses Grasp Heart since its his favorite spell, doesn't work o Aqua, she uses Turn Undead, he is purified to heaven. Ainz has a lot of stuff that he can use to kill Aqua, but only if he survives her Turn Undead, which he won't.

 

[Gabriel_00]

@Pen and Sword, you are right, in overlord it makes him immune

@Muchacho, as i've said multiple times mana/stamina don't relate to AP and wiz is more than capable of handling long fights, you forgot that during the arc that you are using as a basis for this argument Wiz basically incapacitated for the whole of it, in her side story with vanir, before she became a lich she fought on par with him and after she became a lich she single handedly tore down the demon king barrier and it is implied that she efortlesly defeated his generals(including Hans). The part about devils and all is irrelevant. As i've said before aqua's difference in tier should bypass any resistances Ainz has as said earlier in the thread when i copied and pasted the whole Resistance page, even immunity is not absolute and a stronger character should logically bypass such resistances and immunities. And Wiz never survived a Turn Undead, she barely managed to survive the after effect of Aqua's purification of the entire city.

I've already said that before Ainz has much better chance of winning in a long fight, but it's unlikely that the fight would reach that point.

Aqua being hurt by Kazuma is comedy, fiction is in it's majority inconsistent in terms of powerscailing you see characters being injured by things that shoudn't hurt them at all, it helps if you look at durability as a health bar rather than armor, whitebeard took bullet wounds but it is not like those would kill him.

Where did you get that thing about her magical resistance?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Firstly let me say there is magical resistance, magical defence and physical defence compiled here. What is consistent is her physical defence, from getting hurt by Kazuma to actually bleeding from his dagger and even scaldded her hand from very hot water.

Magic resistance:

Aqua magic resistance:
["Ara. So Kazuma, you think you're the strongest one here? Your skills might be convenient and can take down people like Darkness easily with Drain Touch… But have you forgotten? A lich skill like Drain Touch will only work if I'm not paying attention. Do you really think you can do anything to me?"] - Volume 9 Chapter 2

["Hey, the one that proclaims to be a something, get over here."
I dragged that woman who was loudly blurting out her schemes over. I felt that she had the most mana among all of us.
"Hey, what are you doing?! I don't have time for you Kazuma. Let's just, hyaaa―!?"
Aqua couldn't resist my sudden Drain Touch and shrieked.
"You hikiNEET, what are you doing to me during an emergency!?"] - Volume 2 Chapter 5

Physical defence:

[After purifying the hot spring, Aqua cast healing magic on her scalded hand. That energetic idiot looked really depressed right now.

Seeing her like this made me feel uneasy too…] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

[I wordlessly shoved the tip of my dagger into her hand.

"…! …!"

Aqua recoiled, covering the wound with her hand, barely making a sound due to the pain.] - Volume 14 Chapter 5

[As she removed her hand, Aqua's wound was still bleeding without any sign of being healed at all.] - Volume 14 Chapter 5

Also Wiz never fought on equal with Vanir with her own power, she even brough other scrolls and other stuff, especially this:

[ Moi had seen that crystal before.

It was a forbidden fruit that would consume the user's lifespan in exchange for an extreme amount of magic power…

At the same time that Moi had affirmed the identity of the crystal――

Announcing the beginning of our true battle, Wiz shouted with extraordinary spirit.

"'Inferno'――!"] - Masked Spinoff

Also in that very story:

["Why are you such an unfair devil…? I used that many manatite and scrolls, and went so far as to use a forbidden item… Is there even a way to defeat you?"

"If thy want to at least deplete one of Moi lives, I suppose thy shall need to learn explosion magic."] - Masked Spinoff

Then let's go back to volume 3:

"What are you saying? Even moi didn't make it out unscathed after taking such a grand attack. Look closely at this mask."
He pointed to the forehead of his mask.
Looking at it carefully, a 'II' was written on it.
"Because of the explosion spell, I lost a life. I'm Vanir MK II now."] - Volume 3 Epilogue

Then let's go towards volume 9:

["Didn't you lose to Wiz when we fought the Destroyer?"

"That's history now. Since I've leveled up, I learned all sorts of skills related to increasing the power of explosion magic. Wiz and I compared the power of our explosion spells some time ago and won. I am the number one in Axel right now."] - Volume 9 Chapter 4

Conclusion:

Wiz can freeze an area the size Kazuma's < mansion if she went all out. Pure destructive power she loses to Megumin. After she became a lich she was able to cut the demon king's barrier maintained by 4 demon generals (don't ask me how it's 'maintained', even I wouldn't be mad enough to employ melee fighters and a slime to maintain a magical barrier). She then proceeded to defeat, the demon king generals, Hans, Sylvia and Beldia, all of whom would be one shotted by Megumin, also:

["About that, Sylvia-sama was unaffected by the magic, but then for some reason the invader charged forward. When Sylvia-sama's body was touched, she suddenly collapsed and has become unable to fight, just like Hans-sama…!"] - Masked Spinoff

Even after that power gain she wasn't effective against Sylvia who was one shotted by Kazuma's group using a gun that condensed magic power, I should also add this:

[Without question, it was the best Explosion I've seen so far.

Along with the deafening roar, a wind blast that was bigger than I imagined blew toward me.

If she had unleashed this on Sylvia, she might've just defeated her without relying on that weapon. That was how powerful it was.] - Volume 5 Chapter 6

Also the part about wiz resisting [Turn Undead]

["You're acting too arrogant for a lich! An Archpriest like me will perform such benevolent acts, so just scram! You're taking too much time, watch me purify the whole cemetery along with you!"

"Eh? Wait, stop!"

The lich started to panic when she heard Aqua's words.

But Aqua ignored her, opened her arms and shouted:

"Turn Undead―!"

A white light encompassed the entire cemetery with Aqua in the middle.

The light seemed to be gushing out from Aqua's body, and caused the zombies around the lich to vanish upon contact.

It was the same with the spirits gathering at the magic circle of the lich, they disappeared when Aqua's light reached them. The lich was also basked in that light…

"Hya―! My, my body's fading! Stop, my body's disappearing! I'll be purified!"

"Ha, foolish lich! Your existence goes against the law of nature, an undead which defies the will of the gods! Disappear, be vanquished by my power!"] Volume 1 Chapter 2

Also the tiers will get recalculated, it's going great? CRT is largely being ignored, once i've compiled that is. Also you're speaking of tiers, do you not see at what stage CRT is at? Also resistance and immunity is different, Aqua hasn't yet bypassed immunities since the number one term is 'resistance' in Konosuba, but she bypassed resistance to holy or more like her magic was powerful enough but did less damage than it should do to the resistance and I've already stated who (Beldia).

 

[FDrybob]

As i've said before aqua's difference in tier should bypass any resistances Ainz has as said earlier in the thread when i copied and pasted the whole Resistance page, even immunity is not absolute and a stronger character should logically bypass such resistances and immunities.

Ainz's resistance to soul manipulation and existence erasure doesn't come from his own power, it comes from his World Item, and from what we've seen of them so far, World Items are far above Aqua's tier.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

There's also the matter of him having two layers (Not counting holy resist equipment) of resistance to turning. These being, one from the world class item, and the second from his turn resistance three.

Im not overly invested in where this thread goes at this point but his layers should be noted. Im not sure if its enough to make up for their difference in teir but it should be noted.

edit: If it seems his holy resist robe gives him an advantage Im willing to remove, I just didn't want this to come down to oneshots...A foolish dream....

 

[FDrybob]

It's a one-shot either way. If Aqua doesn't one-shot Ainz, she probably gets one-shot herself by reality slash or some other hax. Either it's a decisive victory for one side, or it's inconclusive. There is no middle ground for the outcome here.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Ive come to realize this!

 

[Deleted member 4197]

It's a one-shot either way. If Aqua doesn't one-shot Ainz, she probably gets one-shot herself by reality slash or some other hax. Either it's a decisive victory for one side, or it's inconclusive. There is no middle ground for the outcome here.

Only Aqua is in her own canon proven to be unable to oneshot any non-mook undead. Wiz who is constantly starving for power doesnt get nuked by her sacred turn undead and it takes travel time+mass spell exposure for her to start fading. Not to mention for Sacred Turn Undead with which she might do anything more than tickle, she needs to physically prepare a ritual circle on the area where she wants to cast it which (even if we take much nicer to her D&D values) takes some 10 min.

 

[Fringgs]

@ANDELE3025 did you read the whole thread? or just randomly trying to start this 5day old thread all over again ?

 

[Deleted member 4197]

@Fringgs Ignored people arguing based on sheet power names instead of actual universe feats and im not, im merely stating that "decisivie victory either way" is incorrect as Aqua even by V15 isnt powerful enough (not that time helps her statcapped case) to woosh angry/at full power Wiz away who is a decent tho much lower spell options equivalent/measuring stick to compare to Ainz.

 

[Ugarik]

Is stun from Grasp Heart going to work or it gets nullified compitely?

 

[Akreious]

It should work. The only way it doesn't work is if we assume that Aqua's Holy Aura can resist something it's never shown to resist based off of fairly loose language.

 

[Gabriel_00]

Stun from grasp heart shoudn't work, Aqua has very good magic resistance(she nullified an attack that bypassed magic immunity/resistance), her hagoromo protects her from abnormal status and there's the difference in tier.

I've already adressed the arguments about Ainz resistances, so it would be relly good if people stop making circular arguments.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Your argument against ainz resistances aren't rock solid though, ainz has three layers of resistances with his holy gear, turn resistance and world class item. I can honestly see the argument both ways, both sides have points, perhaps ainz can't resist, perhaps he can.

At this point there are two sides

aqua turns undead and insta kills ainz

or

Ainz resist and hax

So rather than arguing back and forth over a point that can't be garenteed either way just vote for who you think takes this. Both sides have a stance, both have evidence, neither one can impreiaclly prove the other wrong so just vote.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

If this continues to go back and forth Ill give them a week of preptime and prior knowledge to make this more desicive. (i'd hope that makes it more desisive)

 

[Deleted member 4197]

both have evidence, neither one can impreiaclly prove the other wrong

Except thats not true as Aqua couldnt turn undead kill Wiz (and after Wiz got juiced, didnt influence her much/merely downranked her spellcasting despite being close for hours) nor Keele/the generic Lich from the dungeon with normal turn undead, while the Sacred version takes a ritual cast/preparing a circle to cast it.

 

[Gabriel_00]

@Pen, I wouldn't expect the OP not to be so biassed towards one side. And you are saying my argument isn't rock solid despite me quoting the resistance page from this site saying immunity isn't as absolute as people on this thread are making it out to be. And there's evidence that even if Ainz doesn't die he would still get incapacitated. Voting now would only give Ainz the win through popularity without the discussion being concluded, if you are as demotivated as you are saying just call a moderator to close this thread and let it be forgoten.

@ANDELE, you are making some big leaps in logic here, the sacred versions just mean that they take longer to cast, she doesn't need to actually draw a circle, and saying a tier 7 character doesn't get oneshoted by a tier 6 because another tier 6 kind of resisted the attack isn't the best of points to make.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Mate Im not trying to be bias, Im saying both sides have a point, ainz has three layers of resistances, aqua has a powerful turn undead technique. Prove imperically that ainz can't resist, you can't. Just as the other side can't prove impierically prove he does.

Im calling for a vote because this has gone on for over a hundred post of the same arguments being used over and over with zero progress. This isn't a point that can be proven either way. This will continue to circle because neither argument is without flaws.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Her hagoromo is said to negate abnormal status effects, well that is if you don't count alcohol that didn't get negated. Saying it negates stun is like saying Aqua has time-stop countermeasures. She went from saying it protects her from abnormal status effects ---> it protects her from any harmful conditions

 

[FDrybob]

I'll vote for Ainz since he resists turn undead and the holy element, and his soul is protected by a WCI, which are far superior to Aqua. Plus, he has resurrection and hax like Reality Slash and Hold Species.

 

[JorgeDaJiboia]

I'll vote for Ainz since he resists turn undead and the holy element, and his soul is protected by a WCI, which are far superior to Aqua. Plus, he has resurrection and hax like Reality Slash and Hold Species.

Where does it say Ainz has Turn Undead Resistance? @Pen made this argument before in the thread but saw the mistake.

Grasp Heart not working has already been discussed (her divine aura + hagoromo), and I still think her magic is stronger than his resistances for reasons already presented ("[...] as while someone's resistance to a certain kind of attack may be absolute within their verse, it is not necessarily the case against more potent uses of that ability.") Him not resurrecting has been discussed as well (Turn Undead purifies his soul rather than kill him).

 

[Akreious]

"Where does it say Ainz has Turn Undead Resistance? @Pen made this argument before in the thread but saw the mistake."

Turn Undead as in Konosuba is as stated by people above, a combination of Soul manipulation, Possibly EE(?) and Purification. Soul Manipulation and EE(?) gets hard countered by WCI and Purification, which we don't know the function of on it's own. Although since Turn Undead as seen in the manga returns the soul to heaven, and Ainz's WCI completely negates that, it'd likely still do nothing. Probably damage Ainz, although conventionally Turn Undead doesn't deal any damage at all.

"Grasp Heart not working has already been discussed (her divine aura + hagoromo)"

No. No it has not. Why do you keep treating her divine aura and Hagoromo as some sort of blanket "I cannot have any negative effects at all" when it isn't. It resists what it has shown the ability to resist and nothing more or less unless we're given good reason to. Besides even if she resists Grasp Heart, why would it suddenly negate the Stun effect? Being stunned is a natural state our bodies undergo to recover; how is that at all an abnormal status effect?

"I still think her magic is stronger than his resistances for reasons already presented ("[...] as while someone's resistance to a certain kind of attack may be absolute within their verse, it is not necessarily the case against more potent uses of that ability.")"

Then you think wrong. The WCIs are literally reality-warping actual Universes in the form of items. So unless you're claiming that Aqua is somehow Universal and such, Ainz completely resists. Also WCIs have feats on the scale of universes as well (Such as changing the Magic System for the entire game. Which consists of all the realms within Norse Mythology; so this is even more than Universal in scope).

"Him not resurrecting has been discussed as well (Turn Undead purifies his soul rather than kill him)." Which gets completely negated by the, again, World Class Item which completely outstrips Aqua's power. Also why would his soul being purified prevent him from Reviving? What's the difference? Unless I'm forgetting a statement somewhere, I don't think using Turn Undead on an Undead Player within Yggdrasil would suddenly prevent them from using a resurrect item.

 

[FDrybob]

1. In the Evileye bonus novel, it is mentioned that Ainz has Turn Resistance III.

2. I never mentioned Grasp Heart. I mentioned Reality Slash, which is spatial manipulation.

3. I know about the arguments for why Ainz wouldn't resurrect, I just never bought them. Ainz has resistance to holy manipulation thanks to his gear, which, as you say, may not be consequential due to the difference in tier. However, Ainz's world item also protects him from soul manipulation and existence erasure, and world items are far above Aqua's tier.

The same can be said for Overlord's resurrection. As far as I've seen, Konosuba's resurrection requires the target's soul to be intact, but in Overlord, even low-tier resurrection usable by New World humans like Lakyus is capable of completely restoring the target's soul from nothing.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

About that last part, there is some contradiction in the Konosuba world. Archpriests having resurrection is considered really good talent but Aqua not only needs a body (that hasn't died too long ago) to cast revive but she also needs the help of Eris when reviving Kazuma. So it's, Revive + Eris opens gate to Konosuba world she manages. The contradictions is from Eris' side because she states multiple time heaven has a 1 life rule and it does not matter if you're a king or a peasant it still applies. Stating Ainz will be sent to heaven means that there is not only a konosuba god managing his world's soul but that there is a heaven (a hub for souls), Aqua isn't the only one that can create a magic circle so that souls can find heaven, Wiz had done so too. When in Overlord if you die you'll be heading to the abyss.

 

[Deleted member 4197]

@ANDELE, you are making some big leaps in logic here, the sacred versions just mean that they take longer to cast, she doesn't need to actually draw a circle, and saying a tier 7 character doesn't get oneshoted by a tier 6 because another tier 6 kind of resisted the attack isn't the best of points to make.
Sacred version does need to draw the circle as proven in both cases in the anime and Wiz and Ainz are by all accounts equivalents (both Mid Epic spellcasters) as far as most undead traits and caster potential with the difference being specializations (evocation with ice focus for wiz, necromancy with save or die/die later or die now focus for ainz) and Ainz having both a far bigger spell pool due to MMO origin and fully decked out gear (unlike poor lich thighs doormat), making him solidly equivalent to that level of D&D characters Darklord conquest/Strahd when he doesnt care for Baroiva, Mordenkainen, pre-spellplague Vecna, etc.

Tier calculated WRONGLY by vague approximation instead of demonstrated feats (Ainz being, as said equivalent to D&D mid epic caster) is either way of little relevance when equal events happen in both settings by VS rules. Especially since Beldia/Verdia (the Dullahan) had a Turn Resistance +1 armor and Aqua Turn Undeads just singed/annoyed him till the armor was broken by Darkness, DESPITE BEING STAT CAPPED.

About that last part, there is some contradiction in the Konosuba world. Archpriests having resurrection is considered really good talent but Aqua not only needs a body (that hasn't died too long ago) to cast revive but she also needs the help of Eris when reviving Kazuma. So it's, Revive + Eris opens gate to Konosuba world she manages. The contradictions is from Eris' side because she states multiple time heaven has a 1 life rule and it does not matter if you're a king or a peasant it still applies. Stating Ainz will be sent to heaven means that there is not only a konosuba god managing his world's soul but that there is a heaven (a hub for souls), Aqua isn't the only one that can create a magic circle so that souls can find heaven, Wiz had done so too. When in Overlord if you die you'll be heading to the abyss.
Eris and Aqua thing is a "should vs can" thing, they technically can revive people as many times as they want, they shouldnt as creatures of Divine rank interfering with mortals is bad (and as implied by them having a hierarchy and Aqua being appointed for her role, her higher ups would get mad/smite her/remove her divine rank/punish her somehow if she does that). Wiz meanwhile was sheparding the undead as a undead herself.

P.S. for thread, normal turn undead only purifies low level undead, fearing/stunning the rest if they dont resist it and due to her being sacred divine based cleric/archpriest class, deals damage.

 

[Gabriel_00]

Everyone, please stop quoting everything, you are only making the thread harder to follow

@Muchacho, can you please stop quoting entire pages from the novels?

 

[DeathNoodles]

I highly doubt Aqua can get past the resistances granted to Ainz by a World Class Item, and World Class Items are far beyond Aqua's tier.

Ainz FRA.

 

[Gabriel_00]

3-A world class items is an outlier and shoudn't be used as an argument especially because this claim comes from a vague quote and there are no other feats from the verse that come remotelly close to this.

@Pen i'm calling you bias because you are making uncalled changes in the battle to give Ainz unfair advanteges. You are also saying i cannot prove she doesn't bypass his resistances despite me quoting the resistance page saying resistance is not absolute and a higher tier character should be able to atleast partially bypass resistances from a lower tier character. Also there's multiple instances of aqua negating resistances.

 

[DeathNoodles]

3-A world class items is an outlier and shoudn't be used as an argument especially because this claim comes from a vague quote and there are no other feats from the verse that come remotelly close to this.

I never said the WCIs was tier 3-A, and resistances granted by World Class Items is literally listed in Ainz's profile, thus you cannot wave it off as outliers. And all WCIs cannot affect users of WCIs because the protection provided by WCIs surpasses any offensive abilities provided by WCIs (In Overlord, WCI defence > WCI offence > everything else). One of those WCIs has a feat of sealing off an entire world, and even it isn't an exception in the case of not being able to affect a WCI wielder.

Even by sheer tier alone (not even counting the hax abilities and a variety of resistances that WCIs provides), Aqua is dwarfed by the WCIs. She cannot get past the resistances provided by the WCIs just like that.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

I made the change hoping it would make this more decisive, without the robes ainz still has two layers of resistance to peirce, i hoped giving ainz his robes would make it more clear cut, it doesn't seem to have. Id do something for aqua but she doesn't have much i can do to her that would make it more descive either way short of using her, goddess key which isn't even a fight.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Again he has more than one layer which is the only reason her peircing his resistances are in question, he also has resistance to resistance negation...

 

[DeathNoodles]

short of using her, goddess key which isn't even a fight.

Based on Aqua's goddess key, the only new abilities she has is Mind Manipulation (which is combat inapplicable as I doubt her opponents would start worshipping her in versus threads, especially since SBA says they have no prior knowledge of her), Portal Creation (that's not even an offensive hax ability), and Limited Unconventional Time Manipulation. Since it's stated to be limited and unconventional in her profile, that doesn't give me any confidence of her being any haxed than before.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Then should i change it to goddess key? I thought there would be a bigger gap...