Kono Subarashii speed scaling & revisions

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 8, 2019

The claim that Wiz is FTL is based on Wiz seeing her opponent cast to then cast something of her own, this could have happened whilst he was chanting or even after, a good evidence for FTL would be if the next sentence described the attack heading towards her followed by another sentence of her casting. For reference here

["Hmph. As expected of the Ice Witch. Crimson Laser!"
"Crystal Prison! Duke-san, please wait! Please, let's talk things out!"
The crimson ray that Duke unleashed scattered upon hitting the lump of ice that Wiz conjured in front of her.] - Volume 13 chapter 5

The claim that novice adventurers can dodge lightning is based on false info, the manga spinoff was poorly adapting this scene where Yunyun had used magic to save the adventurer and even then, I don't know how people failed to spot the slime? here

[Something aimed at Sophie's head and dropped from the tree.
"Lightning!"
Yunyun's magic hit the slime making a sneak attack at Sophie. It shivered a bit and dissolved.] - Explosion spinoff 3 chapter 3

The claim that Aqua is faster than light is based upon a retelling of something that had happened while Kazuma was gone. Aqua did not hear the latter words of the demon infront of her before she did some sort of magic to reflect his spell

["Listen to me! Listen to me, Kazuma! When we were interrogating this weird masked guy, he suddenly attacked us! He even shouted Vanir-style whatever! I deflected it with magic, but it hit Darkness and she collapsed. I counter-attacked with purification magic! Then this guy used Wiz as a shield and caused her to nearly vanish! When I decided to destroy this guy…!"] - Volume 8 Chapter 1

The claim Wiz is island level+ in attack is a misconception. Her mana reserve is only capable of supporting one [Explosion Spell] + Freeze Spell. She had used her explosion spell with Megumin, both attacking the destroyer, her attack range is barely the beginner town's size. Her random teleport with the right combination is random at best, continent level/multi or even right next door.
Wiz after using Explosion magic with Megumin and used 2 Freeze spells:
[Wiz seemed to be shouting something, but as I expected, the Coronatite went through the fence into my hands.
— And it was still burning.
"Hotttttt!"
"'Freeze'! 'Freeze'!"
"'Heal'! 'Heal'! Nah… Are you an idiot? Kazuma is usually quick witted, but you are doing the same thing even after the incident with the golem, you are actually stupid right?!"
Ugh, I hate to say this, but I couldn't rebuke Aqua's lecture!
The Coronatite which burned my hand and almost took my arm too was on the floor after Wiz helped me cool it down and knock it away.] - Volume 2 Chapter 5

["Hey Aqua, do you have any way to seal this thing? Isn't it the norm for goddess to seal the power of evil or something!?"
"I heard that before, but that's just a game setting! Hey Wiz, you have a way to deal with this right!?"
This woman who proclaimed to be something pushed the hot potato to the lich she was always bullying without hesitation. I thought Wiz wouldn't have any way, but she said…
"There is a method… But my mana is insufficient. Sorry Kazuma-san, I need your help!"
As she said, Wiz pushed her serious face before me.] - Volume 2 Chapter 5

After Wiz sent the coronatite away with [Random Teleport] by stealing mana from Kazuma, she ten asked for enough mana to use [Explosion Magic]:

["Ma, mana! Can someone share some mana with me! If I cast explosion spell at that crack, it would neutralize the impact!"
Wiz started canvassing the adventurers around us.
I grabbed Wiz in a hurry and whispered into her ears.
"Hey, Wiz! What are saying all of a sudden! The other adventurers don't know you can use drain touch! What would you do if they discovered that you are a lich! As a human, I can let them inspect me even if I use lich skills, but if they found out that Wiz is not a human, it would be the end!"
"But, I can only stop that explosion by absorbing mana…!"] - Volume 2 Chapter 5

The claim Aqua has infinite mana is also a misconception. Her stats were already revealed to guild lady, the idea she has infinite mana stems from the Kazuma's thoughts through out the series
Kazuma draining Aqua to power [Explosion]:

[As expected, no matter how rotten she was, she was still a goddess.
No matter how much I absorbed, there seemed to be no end to Aqua's mana.] - Volume 2 Chapter 5

When a trip to the guild would produce the same results as this:

["Eh? Huh~! What is with these numbers? Besides the lower than average intelligence, and luck which is pit bottom, the rest of your stats drastically exceeds the average! Especially your magic, it is abnormally high, who in the world are you…?"] - Volume 1 Chapter 1

The Claim that Aqua's durability is island level is based on scaling her compared to other characters, when in reality she can be harmed by Kazuma's fist and magic and nearly lost her hands touching water contaminated by a-bit of Han's body.

Aqua before Hans threw his body part into the water:

[Aqua shouted as she dipped her hand into the completely black hot spring in a panic.
"It burns! Wahhh, it's scalding! It's scalding my hand!"
Wiz cast Freeze multiple times into the water Aqua was sticking her hand in.
As time went by, the black murky hot spring gradually became clear.
"That'll do… But, I can't purify the water in the pipes. It'll take some time before this hot spring can be used again… Heal!"
After purifying the hot spring, Aqua cast healing magic on her scalded hand. That energetic idiot looked really depressed right now.] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

Aqua after he threw it into the water:

["Ahhh, it hurts, hot! Heal! Heal! Wiz, help me, the pipe of the last water source is going to be contaminated!"
Aqua endured the scalding water and healed her hand with magic as she asked Wiz for help.
"A, Aqua-sama! … Light of Saber!!"
Seeing this scene, Wiz chopped with her hand, using light magic to cut a part of the contaminated pipe.] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

Above is the only time Aqua directly casted heal on herself while purifying contaminated water, even though this was said by Kazuma later:

[Aqua owned a holy relic that protects her from abnormal status like poison. She and the muscle-headed Darkness should be able to defend against the poison of the Demon King's general.] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

The above is debatable, especially since she hid behind Darkness for protection.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 10, 2019

Aqua

Durability: Able to resist Demon General class magic, physically hurt by Kazuma's fists, feels pain from Kazuma's [Freeze], is scalded by hot spring water contaminated by a part of Han's body, was pierced by Kazuma's blade (her finger) and bled.

Attack range: hundreds of meters (with Flood), dozens of meters with other purification magic

Speed highest feat: Able to deflect magic from a chanting Vanir (A demon King General), through unknown means to then counter with purification

Darkness
Durability: High magical defence, able to survive Megumin's [Explosion] magic but with life threatening injuries and was rent unconscious, able to survive Vanir's [Death Ray] collapsed unconscious with injuries

Wiz

Durability: Demon King General class durability, comparable to other demon king generals should be able to survive 1 or 2 Megumin [Explosion], high magical defence to be able to survive [Turn Undead] a weakness of hers (barely survives)

Attack Range: Has a random teleport able to transport things to a random location but must be smaller in size than the Destroyer. With [Explosion] should be comparable to Megumin in range as nothing other than her potency (vaporize more Destroyer parts than Megumin) was noted. Can use [Ice Magic] and freeze an area half the size of Kazuma's mansion.

Speed: Able to chant fast enough to block a demon king general's attack (Duke was infront of her and she countered with her own spell, the last sentence describing the effect of the spell, the entire fight being the two countering each other)

Bonesdrowy · Jun 10, 2019

So I recently started this series (lovin it) and wonder if you can find/or post the freezing lake tex that the 7-B calc is based on? Some of the assumptions seem questionable.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 10, 2019

["To be honest, I didn't expect them to accept me as a partner. You Crimson Demons really are a free-spirited bunch, aren't ya? I was really surprised when a bunch of them froze the lake just so they could go fishing for wakasagi in this season. Aren't there more worthwhile ways to use your powers?"] - Volume 14 Chapter 3

Keep in mind Wiz can freeze an area about half the size of Kazuma's mansion (anime made it look smaller but oh well)

Bonesdrowy · Jun 10, 2019

Muchacho mrm said:
["To be honest, I didn't expect them to accept me as a partner. You Crimson Demons really are a free-spirited bunch, aren't ya? I was really surprised when a bunch of them froze the lake just so they could go fishing for wakasagi in this season. Aren't there more worthwhile ways to use your powers?"] - Volume 14 Chapter 3
Keep in mind Wiz can freeze an area about half the size of Kazuma's mansion (anime made it look smaller but oh well)

There are a few reasons why I question the calc, tho pardon me if I don't understand certain things as I'm not a calc person.

1. Aren't there lakes in Japan with less volume that one could fish for Wakasagi, than the two lakes used for this calc?

2. Is the calc assuming the entire lake is being frozen? Or just the surface? Its using its water volume so I'm guessing its assuming the entirety of the lake is being frozen, which should be wrong if it is using such assumption. Since ice fishing usually involve just the surface right?

3. Is 4 too small a number for a 'bunch'? It feels like it is for me, but thats probably just subjective opinion.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 10, 2019

1. There are, most sources say they are found in nothern Japan, most saying Hokkaido and he/she has listed 2 lakes where they are usually found (I don't know this source). There are smaller lakes, he's selected a 13 km and a 33 km (squared)

2. Yes, the entire lake. It depends on the fish and how far you need to penetrate, no other info for this feat in the novel

3. 4 is too small of a number but in another way it would make sense if ritual magic was introduced, as in more people chanelling one spell = a more powerful one

Bonesdrowy · Jun 10, 2019

Muchacho mrm said:
1. There are, most sources say they are found in nothern Japan, most saying Hokkaido and he/she has listed 2 lakes where they are usually found (I don't know this source). There are smaller lakes, he's selected a 13 km and a 33 km (squared)
2. Yes, the entire lake. It depends on the fish and how far you need to penetrate, no other info for this feat in the novel

3. 4 is too small of a number but in another way it would make sense if ritual magic was introduced, as in more people chanelling one spell = a more powerful one

1. If theres no further information given for the lake, then the calc should be redone with the smaller lakes rather than the one's nearly twice the water volume (there's apparently a lake with around. 06 rather than the .23). Since I'm fairly sure most calcs should be done with the bare minimum assumption or as one would refer the 'low end', right?

2. Thats a pretty steep assumption since the lake would only need a meter or so of its surface frozen to ice fish Wakasagi. The underside would still need to be unfrozen in order to actually fish the Wakasagi. There seems to be no other evidence to suggest the entire lake was frozen solid rathwr than the surface.

3. I would imagine 6 would be more appropriate, but low balling numbers is the way to go and 4 seems like the absolute minimum for a 'bunch' for most people.

Anyways, the calc should be redone with the smaller volume ranges in mind and without the assumption that the entire lake was frozen solid. Just realised just how many characters scale to this feat too, geeze.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 10, 2019

1. I feel the same

2. I said it depends on the fish since some do stay in deeper depths, in this case they are breaking ice to dig for frozen fish (entire lake assumption)

3. 6 is too small to freeze an entire lake, the series should end soon even I would be baffled if the novel stated it was done by 10. Why don't they just combine their efforts and make a mega explosion spell to hit the demon king instead of individually doing so?

There is a-lot of things for this series that needs to be addressed, but nobody seems interested in this CRT.

Bonesdrowy · Jun 10, 2019

Muchacho mrm said:
1. I feel the same
2. I said it depends on the fish since some do stay in deeper depths, in this case they are breaking ice to dig for frozen fish (entire lake assumption)

3. 6 is too small to freeze an entire lake, the series should end soon even I would be baffled if the novel stated it was done by 10. Why don't they just combine their efforts and make a mega explosion spell to hit the demon king instead of individually doing so?

There is a-lot of things for this series that needs to be addressed, but nobody seems interested in this CRT.

2. I had to do a bit of research, but Wakasagi fish are usually fished by drilling small holes on the ice surface and then merely fishing them out from the cold waters. The lake is never frozen solid for this kind of practice really. I don't see any evidence that suggests they're breaking ice to dig for frozen fish, it says they're fishing for them which suggests traditional ice fishing which involves only a frozen surface.

3. I guess 6 is too small, but if one were to redo the calc then what numbet would be more appropriate at a bare minimum?

Reading some of what you said in the OP, there really is a lot of things. One significant change is the removal of the lightning speed they gave for the mooks which then scales off to everybody, thats pretty big. I'm really surprised no one's taking part of a CRT like this that would downgrade nearly EVERYTHING lol. So far just you and me.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 10, 2019

2. You seem to know more, surface it is then

3. for reference:

Wiz's [Freeze] magic range

[That slime expanded to the size of our mansion.
"That's too big―!"] - Volume 4 chapter 5

["Aqua-sama, even if I exhaust all my mana, I won't be able to freeze Hans-san at his current size! Let's withdraw! Everyone in the Axis Cult wouldn't want Aqua-sama to be hurt too!"] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

["Wiz, after blowing Hans into pieces, can you freeze it?"
"If Hans-san is about half his current size, I should just barely manage with my remaining mana…"] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

I think the whole village (about 12 people) wouldn't be able to completely freeze a lake 2km+

Bonesdrowy · Jun 10, 2019

Muchacho mrm said:
2. You seem to know more, surface it is then
3. for reference:

Wiz's [Freeze] magic range

[That slime expanded to the size of our mansion.
"That's too big―!"] - Volume 4 chapter 5

["Aqua-sama, even if I exhaust all my mana, I won't be able to freeze Hans-san at his current size! Let's withdraw! Everyone in the Axis Cult wouldn't want Aqua-sama to be hurt too!"] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

["Wiz, after blowing Hans into pieces, can you freeze it?"
"If Hans-san is about half his current size, I should just barely manage with my remaining mana…"] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

I think the whole village (about 12 people) wouldn't be able to completely freeze a lake 2km+

Wouldn't ths quote be more support that would suggest that Wiz may not be 6-C?

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 11, 2019

Because she is being scaled to 2 feats of Megumin that has, well holes. Firstly before I get into that, I should provide context with my previous post.

["Freeze!"
Wiz rushed over to help and used frost magic too.
Probably because our magic capacity and race were different, Wiz's spell lowered the temperature of the source in an instant.
"Phew… Thanks Wiz, and Kazuma… I'll be thanking you a tiny bit too."
"Only a tiny bit?"
Wiz cast Freeze multiple times into the water Aqua was sticking her hand in.] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

["Cursed Crystal Prison."

A cold, calm voice echoed in the snowy hills.

"? Ahhh?"

With a cracking sound, Hans's right arm and the contaminated source froze in an instant.

His right hand frozen with the hot spring, Hans let out a cry.] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

["Hans-san, I won't let you destroy the hot spring! Cursed Crystal Prison!"

"!! Shit, I don't match up well against you!"

Wiz froze Hans's lower body with her spell. Right now, he was about ten meters away from the last water source] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

["Wiz, after blowing Hans into pieces, can you freeze it?"

"If Hans-san is about half his current size, I should just barely manage with my remaining mana…"] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

["When I say go, Wiz will drain my mana away―just don't let me die."] Volume 4 Chapter 5

So, she used 'multiple freeze' spells + 3 advanced magic + one last advanced magic. Also in volume 2 using [Explosion Magic] she was able to have enough mana for 2 [Freeze] spells and needed to 'suck' out mana from Kazuma to use [Random Teleport], even goes as far as to say that she can now use "teleportaion spells". What consistent is [Explosion] seems to use a-lot more mana compared to other advanced magic and a great feat in the Konosuba world would be if you could use [Explosion] + Teleportation spell since teleporation magic uses a-lot of mana.

Also:

[Even if the enemy was a general, it was still impossible to cast explosion twice in a day.

After all, even Wiz, who was also a Demon King general, would exhaust most of her mana after firing one explosion.] - Volume 9 Chapter 4

Bonesdrowy · Jun 11, 2019

Muchacho mrm said:
Because she is being scaled to 2 feats of Megumin that has, well holes. Firstly before I get into that, I should provide context with my previous post.
["Freeze!"
Wiz rushed over to help and used frost magic too.
Probably because our magic capacity and race were different, Wiz's spell lowered the temperature of the source in an instant.
"Phew… Thanks Wiz, and Kazuma… I'll be thanking you a tiny bit too."
"Only a tiny bit?"
Wiz cast Freeze multiple times into the water Aqua was sticking her hand in.] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

["Cursed Crystal Prison."

A cold, calm voice echoed in the snowy hills.

"? Ahhh?"

With a cracking sound, Hans's right arm and the contaminated source froze in an instant.

His right hand frozen with the hot spring, Hans let out a cry.] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

["Hans-san, I won't let you destroy the hot spring! Cursed Crystal Prison!"

"!! Shit, I don't match up well against you!"

Wiz froze Hans's lower body with her spell. Right now, he was about ten meters away from the last water source] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

["Wiz, after blowing Hans into pieces, can you freeze it?"

"If Hans-san is about half his current size, I should just barely manage with my remaining mana…"] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

["When I say go, Wiz will drain my mana away―just don't let me die."] Volume 4 Chapter 5

So, she used 'multiple freeze' spells + 3 advanced magic + one last advanced magic. Also in volume 2 using [Explosion Magic] she was able to have enough mana for 2 [Freeze] spells and needed to 'suck' out mana from Kazuma to use [Random Teleport], even goes as far as to say that she can now use "teleportaion spells". What consistent is [Explosion] seems to use a-lot more mana compared to other advanced magic and a great feat in the Konosuba world would be if you could use [Explosion] + Teleportation spell since teleporation magic uses a-lot of mana.

Also:

[Even if the enemy was a general, it was still impossible to cast explosion twice in a day.

After all, even Wiz, who was also a Demon King general, would exhaust most of her mana after firing one explosion.] - Volume 9 Chapter 4

Well not that it matters for me, as I merely wanted to address the lake freezing calc and maybe some other things later.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 11, 2019

Megumin's magic scaling:

[After the dust settled, a crater twenty meters in diameter revealed where the frog had been, showing how powerful the explosion was.] - Volume 1 Chapter 1

Later season 1:

Season 2:

After fight with Vanir above, before fight with Hans on the right >

["Level 26."

Megumin showed her adventurer's card proudly.

"… Why is it so high?"] - Volume 4 Chapter 1

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 11, 2019

VANIR:
- Dies to one [Sacred Exorcism] or one Megumin [Explosion]

["Sacred Exorcism!"
Aqua's voice suddenly cut Vanir off.
At the same time, Vanir was surrounded by a pillar of light.
After the light disappeared, only Vanir's mask was left spinning on the ground, making a clattering sound.
"Hey Vanir! You're an arch devil right? It is fine, you won't die because of an attack from the goddess of toilets right? Wake up!"] - Volume 7 Chapter 5

["I did clear my name―but what's with this guy? How can he be doing so well after taking a blast of explosion magic? Isn't his existence itself a cheat? He's not hurt at all!"
Vanir looked surprised.
"What are you saying? Even moi didn't make it out unscathed after taking such a grand attack. Look closely at this mask."
He pointed to the forehead of his mask.
Looking at it carefully, a 'II' was written on it.
"Because of the explosion spell, I lost a life. I'm Vanir MK II now."] - Volume 3 Epilogue

- Real body in hell

["—Now then, let's go back to our original topic. You wish to have one of my nails, yes? Unlike greater devils like Vanir-sama whose real body still remains in hell, for a devil who has brought his true body into this world like me, even removing a small portion of my nails causes me great pain."] - Volume 12 Chapter 5

- Can resurrect infinitely (probably) unless real soul is destroyed

[Right before my eyes, Vanir's body started growing from beneath the mask.
… How convenient for him to have a set of clothes on him whenever he resurrects… No, his clothes were destroyed by Aqua in the first place because they were a part of his body.
"Hahaha, thou actually use sneak attacks just like a devil, delinquent goddess! Look, moi cool mask is cracked!"] - Volume 7 Chapter 5

- Can see into the future, read minds and find people below Wiz's level and with unknown means can go above

["Hmph. Don't lump my powers together with that of the goddesses who claim omnipotence but are in fact unable to accomplish anything at all. Besides, Moi has already told you, the more power a person has, the harder it is for me to see through them. That defective shopkeeper has no talent for business, but the one thing she does have is power."
Vanir disgruntledly replied as he straightened up his clothes.
"You talk a big game, but at the end of the day, you just don't know, do you? You really are completely useless whenever it's important. This is a little weird coming from me, but doesn't that make you even worse than me?"
"… Very well, it has been some time, but perhaps it's time for me to get serious. It's best that you leave the store. Moi shall settle the score with those irritating gods today."] - Volume 15 Chapter 5

- Can ressurect other demons

["V-V-Vanir-sama, this violent blue-haired woman, could she be…"
"Yes, as you might have suspected, she's our natural enemy. Your remaining lives were all purified by her upon entering my store, but because you expired in front of me, Moi was able to restore one of your lives. However, if you run into her in the future without me around, then that'll be it."] - Volume 13 Chapter 1

- Can send people to hell (scaling below Wiz)

["Well then, Sir Landlord. Moi have no further business with thee. Moi will take Maxwell back to hell and moi will continue to work harder under that crazy shop owner."] - Volume 7 Epilogue
- Can leave empty shell clones
["Shred!"
After a sound, Vanir split into two.
Emperor Zell was being carried by Vanir's clone, so it couldn't see the second Vanir.] - Volume 8 Chapter 1

- Can use [Death Ray] (power below Megumin's explosion)

["Normally Moi would rather puke blood than lend a helping hand to a goddess, but I'll ignore it just this once. Let's just hurry up and get this over with. Vanir-Style Death Ray!"
Just as Aqua savagely finished off a single rock mimic, Vanir, who had been mining away at his own rock pile some distance away, turned around and shot a black beam from his eyes
A group of rock mimics were hit by the malevolent light and vanished, along with a good chunk of the surrounding rock..] - Volume 13 Chapter 1

- Can curse

["Hahaha. Moi would never use a curse that could kill the victim! The one who placed the curse was an arch-devil with strange mannerisms and a screw loose in the head."] - Volume 8 Chapter 1

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 11, 2019

Conclusion:
Megumin's explosion gets stronger as she levels up, she started with 20 meter crater and the anime's depth was a ripple crater with only a 0.5 meter depth depending on how close you stand to the center. Volume 3 Short story she had taken out a mansion + windows of surrounding buildings. In that same volume she had taken out Darkness + Vanir and the chapter had not described the crater's size but if we were to use the anime her explosion yield would be below 1 Kiloton.

In volume 4 she was significantly stronger and had taken out Hans who had grown to a size comparable to Kazuma's mansion. She was level 26 at that time, taking Wiz's height into consideration (170CM), the crater should be 5 meters+ in depth at the center in the anime.

In volume 5, Megumin had become level 33. Kazuma and her went into a forest and came to an open space. Kazuma had used her skill points to increase her explosion's power. He had pointed to a boulder outside the forest "in the middle of a plain" which was barely within Megumin's range as stated by her. For reference, in volume 9 Kazuma needed to climb a tall tree to see a few kilometers to spot the demon king army, let's assume the boulder is 2KM away, it totals out to a 2-3 Kiloton yield as Kazuma had described feeling the wind blast rather than heat. To him, this was the strongest explosion he had experienced.

In volume 9 the evil goddess Wolbach who still had half her power remaining got a rating of "more than 90 points" from Kazuma for her explosion. For reference Megumin's explosion in volume 5 (above) had gotten her 120 points from Kazuma. The reason i'm mentioning her is because of the fact that she attacked a fortress wall daily until it had collapsed, her final explosion leaving a crater of unknown size. The fortress wall was being repaired daily at a slow rate and the crew were not able to completely fill it up as the reason it had collapsed was because it had cracks and damages from previous explosion.

In volume 13, Megumin had a good feat. Using Kazuma's observation, he had stated treasure island was comprable in size to the Tokyo Dome. Megumin had done an air explosion rather than a surface one and had taken out the rocks on top of the turtle.

The anime had interpreted this creature as a turtle, I don't know if the author had a hand in it since the anime (season 2 opening) had only adapted up to 4 volumes.

Tokyo Dome on the right >

Yes, I dropped a nuke on Tokyo Dome. Taking into account her level gain and starting crater of 20 meters and about<0.5 meter deep crater. At this volume she should equal out to 3-6 kilotons. On the right there is a 6 kiloton nuke. Kazuma and his party should have been hundreds of meters away or about a kilometer, it was never stated how far away they were but the the creature had started moving and it was still within their view and it wasn't stated to be far away. So about hundreds of meters to 1 kilometers away. Megumin had taken out the rocks surrouding the creature's shell (summit).

Daaffy · Jun 13, 2019

Aqua have maximum stats, anyone have best durability feat it scaling to Aqua.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 13, 2019

A beginner's mistake, she doesn't scale to others as she's been nerfed since coming down to the mortal world and her stats have capped but she can gain levels which explains her feats. Also Kazuma below.

Max stat:

[Frankly, since I last leveled up, my stats have been rising even more slowly.
It's possible that my stats are close to being maxed out—a reality that I'm not too keen to accept.
There are no cheats here, so it really is no joking matter when I get stuck with the same stats regardless of my level.] - Volume 11 Epilogue

["Well, I'll just slowly earn my levels back. I'm pretty close to reaching my stat cap anyway, and I have enough money to live comfortably, so there's no need to rush… Let's go all the way to the end with your loyal subordinate, Serena-sama. Come on, let's start over from zero."] - Volume 15 Chapter 3

["Even if you say that, do you understand the pain of not seeing your status rise even though you leveled up? Recently, apart from my luck, my stats barely rise at all. Having more skill points is nice and all, but as a NEET, there aren't that many skills that are beneficial to my lifestyle. I'm having trouble finding the motivation to level up…"
"You're reaching your stat cap, huh… Hmm, well, there are several expensive potions that can permanently raise your stats. We can defeat monsters and use the money we earn to buy those potions and get stronger that way…"] - Volume 14 Chapter 3

Bonesdrowy · Jun 19, 2019

So this is a slight bumb, as I don't want the thread to just die out before we can add some of the neccessary changes, such as the lake freezing calc needing to be redone and the lightning speed feat being removed as its based on a false interpretation of a scene. Can we get a mod in here?

Gabriel_00 · Jun 20, 2019

I'm not gonna insist too much on the lightning feat but, what exactly is wrong with it?

About the lake freezing, i think both possibilities should be counted, as it would be in character for the crimson demons to freeze a lake just to catch some fish, the context gives off that impression too that it was a really unecessary thing to do. And the quote doesn't especiffy any one of the possibilities.

As for the durability/mana/range arguments. You are just cherrypicking your arguments, picking only the ones that best suit your point and leaving out much better feats and sometimes leaving context out.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 20, 2019

Gabriel 00 said:
As for the durability/mana/range arguments. You are just cherrypicking your arguments, picking only the ones that best suit your point and leaving out much better feats and sometimes leaving context out.

Cherry picking? Mana - I've listed their worse and best feats (by author)

Range - Their best feats (by author)

Durability - Their best feat and worst (by author)

Bonesdrowy · Jun 20, 2019

Gabriel 00 said:
I'm not gonna insist too much on the lightning feat but, what exactly is wrong with it?
About the lake freezing, i think both possibilities should be counted, as it would be in character for the crimson demons to freeze a lake just to catch some fish, the context gives off that impression too that it was a really unecessary thing to do. And the quote doesn't especiffy any one of the possibilities.

As for the durability/mana/range arguments. You are just cherrypicking your arguments, picking only the ones that best suit your point and leaving out much better feats and sometimes leaving context out.

1. The calc was base off a mook adventurer dodging a lightning spell, however this is not true as in the novel the adventurer is dodging away from the slime and the spell was meant to hit the already falling slime in midair. Basically she didn't react to the lightning but the already falling slime.

2. The calc needs to be redone mainly due to the fact that the person used one of the much larger lakes rather than the several others (these lakes are like 2-4 times smaller in water volume) that holds the same type of fish. I thought we don't highball a calc in this site? Also if the entire lake was frozen the Crimson demons aren't 'fishing' and instead are picking at solid ice for dozens of meters until they eventually get the frozen fish. The context makes it seem this is done enough times to not surprise any other Crimson Demon, Wakasagi fish cannot survive those kind of temperatures and the Crimson Demons essentially depopulated their entire fish population. Also ice fishing doesn't require the entire lake, just a meter or so is enough to drill a hole to fish like many do in Japan, this is how one ice fishes Wakasagi in Japan too.

3. Those arguements concering range/durability/mana aren't mine. I agree with some however, but I ain't the one making the claims.

ShiroyashaGinSan · Jun 20, 2019

I'm one of the supporters of Konosuba here. Sorry but I can't follow. I think this is a downgrade but, what is your arguments?

ShiroyashaGinSan · Jun 20, 2019

About FTL: this one is pretty fair. I agree with downgrading it I guess. I agree because there is no concrete evidence that it is real light.

About MHS: this one is pretty fair also. Though most Lightning user should still retain MHS attack speed. Superior magics like Explosion should scale to it as well.

6-C Wiz: I don't understand the argument here. Wiz being 6-C is not about her firing an Explosion. It's her being superior to the party even to the recent volume. It's because in Vanir spin-off, even when the generals were alive keeping the barrier intact, she was able to break it very easily before stomping several of them. And in recent volume Aqua can't do it even when two of them left. In fact, I should've upgraded her way before, she should be High 6-C, not just that she should at least be comparable to Aqua because of the above, she fought Vanir toe-to-toe even when she was a human and Lich Wiz>Human Wiz.

Wiz Range: Size of a town should be at least kilometers, because hundreds of meters town makes no sense to me.

Wiz Mana: This is also pretty fair. This should be downgraded to Extremely High, it is still impressive that she can fire Explosion and move in the first place.

Aqua Stamina: I also had a problem about this, this should be downgraded to Extremely High as well for having abnormally high Mana and her constantly leeching it from her cult.

Aqua Dura: This should be mostly inconsistencies, she has level 100 stats after all, it makes no sense that they can hurt her and also fought Vanir unscathed as well.

Bonesdrowy · Jun 20, 2019

ShiroyashaGinSan said:
About FTL: this one is pretty fair. I agree with downgrading it I guess. I agree because there is no concrete evidence that it is real light.
About MHS: this one is pretty fair also. Though most Lightning user should still retain MHS attack speed. Superior magics like Explosion should scale to it as well.

6-C Wiz: I don't understand the argument here. Wiz being 6-C is not about her firing an Explosion. It's her being superior to the party even to the recent volume. It's because in Vanir spin-off, even when the generals were alive keeping the barrier intact, she was able to break it very easily before stomping several of them. And in recent volume Aqua can't do it even when two of them left. In fact, I should've upgraded her way before, she should be High 6-C, not just that she should at least be comparable to Aqua because of the above, she fought Vanir toe-to-toe even when she was a human and Lich Wiz>Human Wiz.

Wiz Range: Size of a town should be at least kilometers, because hundreds of meters town makes no sense to me.

Wiz Mana: This is also pretty fair. This should be downgraded to Extremely High, it is still impressive that she can fire Explosion and move in the first place.

Aqua Stamina: I also had a problem about this, this should be downgraded to Extremely High as well for having abnormally high Mana and her constantly leeching it from her cult.

Aqua Dura: This should be mostly inconsistencies, she has level 100 stats after all, it makes no sense that they can hurt her and also fought Vanir unscathed as well.

Although the MHS attack speed would only apply specifically to the lightning spells and I don't think spells like Explosion would scale since its supposedly only greater in destructive output.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 20, 2019

Aqua durability: It was never stated she has level 100 stats. Her stats are maxed out, something that is normal in the Konosuba world, level does not scale to stats. You can max out your stats (pretty much based on talent/potential) without being 100. Kazuma had already seen her stats and still relies on Darkness for defence. Also I forgot to add but she was defeated in terms of speed by crimson archmages (neets by Megumin's words) that had buffs applied to them. No real comedy here, Aqua even admitted she lost

Wiz 6C: Hax or more like semi-hax does not scale to AP. She managed to cut the barrier with [Light Saber] that cuts depending on the magic power. To then fight the demon generals, where her potency in her other attacks were revealed (unable to damage Sylvia). Also her other stuff is scaling to Megumin, the latter based on false info

Wiz Range: She has a random range, but her other attacks are all below town level. Explosion with the highest range she doesn't scale to Megumin. Ice attacks? Her range is Kazuma's Mansion Size+

ShiroyashaGinSan · Jun 20, 2019

Then I think only MHS with lightning magic.

There's still the fact that he fought Vanir toe-to-toe. And was relatively unscathed from it. Most of it is inconsistencies just like how the series treats Aqua's stats as a whole. And with her AP backing it up, it's not an outlier either.

Light of Saber, doesn't have the same effects on barriers. Remember the time when Wiz attacked the barrier where Vanir was trapped? It had impact because it had crack. Not to mention, yes, you can scale AP from semi Hax look at these guys.

There's no such thing as town level for range. Hence it's reduced to kilometers. She shouldn't have below range to Seresdina tho who can curse the town upon her death. Hell, she even know that she's inferior.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 20, 2019

She reflected Vanir's attack, if you mean Wiz then she never fought toe to toe with Vanir:

[ Moi had seen that crystal before.

It was a forbidden fruit that would consume the user's lifespan in exchange for an extreme amount of magic power…

At the same time that Moi had affirmed the identity of the crystal――

Announcing the beginning of our true battle, Wiz shouted with extraordinary spirit.

"'Inferno'――!"] - Masked Spinoff

Also in that very story:

["Why are you such an unfair devil…? I used that many manatite and scrolls, and went so far as to use a forbidden item… Is there even a way to defeat you?"

"If thy want to at least deplete one of Moi lives, I suppose thy shall need to learn explosion magic."] - Masked Spinoff

Then let's go back to volume 3:

"What are you saying? Even moi didn't make it out unscathed after taking such a grand attack. Look closely at this mask."
He pointed to the forehead of his mask.
Looking at it carefully, a 'II' was written on it.
"Because of the explosion spell, I lost a life. I'm Vanir MK II now."] - Volume 3 Epilogue

Then let's go towards volume 9:

["Didn't you lose to Wiz when we fought the Destroyer?"

"That's history now. Since I've leveled up, I learned all sorts of skills related to increasing the power of explosion magic. Wiz and I compared the power of our explosion spells some time ago and won. I am the number one in Axel right now."] - Volume 9 Chapter 4

Not counting [Light of Saber] her other attacks were ineffective against Sylvia, someone who has the highest magical defence among the demon generals. Also Aqua's purification AP are from her divinity that has been nerfed. Beldia was equipped to deal with archpriests and yet Aqua surprised him with her feat, Wiz was surprised by her attack potency and even wondered if she were a goddess, Vanir was surprised by her potency, Zereschrute was so surprised that he had a good idea of who Aqua was. Also [Light of Saber] does have the same effect on barriers, it is just that Wiz was weak (see above)

Also Serena is of-course inferior to other demon king generals. She only has a few strong abilities that are all negated as well as the fact that her durability is so low that a toothpick can make her bleed.

ShiroyashaGinSan · Jun 20, 2019

No, in the same scene, he said that they fought so long that he doesn't even know the time of it. You're missing the context.

Seresdina getting hurt by toothpick isn't even inconsistency when it was Kazuma who did it.

Vanir getting killed by Explosion is currently regarded as outlier.

No? It was when she casted barrier on him that was a month ago. It had the force.

Yeah because it was resistance. And resistance isn't durability. It's not inconsistency either. Her surviving purification was because purification won't work against anyone outside their specific targets plus purification is Hax it's Soul/EE.

So you're saying that Aqua is the best of the bunch? Because yeah, she's certainly one of the best.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 20, 2019

I think you're missing the fact that she run out of mana, even brought scrolls:

[Wiz bit her lip in frustration, but as a result of depleting her magic power, she could only sit idly on the ground. She looked up towards Moi.

"Why are you such an unfair devil…? I used that many manatite and scrolls, and went so far as to use a forbidden item… Is there even a way to defeat you?"] - Masked Spinoff

Also my mind blanked out for a second...A toothpick was used to stab her finger with absolutely no real effort on Kazuma's part. The wielder doesn't matter, the tool does.

Also her surviving purification was within range:

["You're acting too arrogant for a lich! An Archpriest like me will perform such benevolent acts, so just scram! You're taking too much time, watch me purify the whole cemetery along with you!"

"Eh? Wait, stop!"

The lich started to panic when she heard Aqua's words.

But Aqua ignored her, opened her arms and shouted:

"Turn Undead―!"

A white light encompassed the entire cemetery with Aqua in the middle.

The light seemed to be gushing out from Aqua's body, and caused the zombies around the lich to vanish upon contact.

It was the same with the spirits gathering at the magic circle of the lich, they disappeared when Aqua's light reached them. The lich was also basked in that light…

"Hya―! My, my body's fading! Stop, my body's disappearing! I'll be purified!"

"Ha, foolish lich! Your existence goes against the law of nature, an undead which defies the will of the gods! Disappear, be vanquished by my power!"] Volume 1 Chapter 2

It covered the very same cemetery Wiz is in.

ShiroyashaGinSan · Jun 20, 2019

Yeah? After out of screen fighting so hard that it destroyed the interior of the dungeon.

The force comes from the wielder. When you hold a sword by their edge, it won't hurt you because there's no force behind it. Same goes for every weapons except guns. And toothpick because the force doesn't come from toothpick, it comes from Kazuma.

So you're saying what? Again, it's clear that it doesn't have any AP behind it, it's resistance feat, so what?

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 20, 2019

Force:

Person A: Thrusts toothpick

Person B: Toothpick breaks, the force of person A is equa to person B but the force exerted on the toothpick + the material (skin) makes it break

I can't believe I need to even explain this. Also why are you mentioning the dungeon of unknown size? Are you forgetting it's Vanir's dungeon, which may or may not be

this dungeon we see in Season 2, both he claimed to be his dungeon.

Also destroying the interior of the dungeon...Do you want to scale that? Fine, let's scale it, but first a few things, firstly she used an item to increase her magic power + crystals + other magic items + anti-devil curse and still did not take 1 of Vanir's lives. Something Megumin had done and he had stated he would not have survived her explosion and in that very side story Vanir had stated she needs explosion magic to take one of his lives. Outlier? More like ignoring facts.

Also you said Aqua didn't target Wiz when in fact she targetted the entire cemetery which includes Wiz. I don't know what you mean by "it doesn't have any AP behind it", are you really reading the quote?

ShiroyashaGinSan · Jun 20, 2019

You can say to like, every single verse ever above 9-B when they hold anything that isn't steel. Hell, Natsu in Fairy Tail should've broke the ship when he stepped, Goku should've broke everything he touched and the universe when he entered, etc. That is invalid argument, anybody can see that.

Because they I don't know, fought means they scale in durability unless something else tells that they didn't hit one another. That was years before Vanir's flashback, he could easily fixed that.

She was powerful enough to threaten it, she forced her to break his rule. Hence she scales to him and stuff. Hence she's High 6-C. And why do you think that every single Explosion has the same output? Hell, 6-C+, 7-B+ and High 7-C calcs alone says it's different. Hell, if you did, then almost everyone should be 6-C+ from the very start.

Yeah? When did I said she didn't targeted Wiz? I just want to know that what are you proposing with this?

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 20, 2019

Firstly what are you talking about? There is an established durabity in fantasy stories for characters and they rise, meaning something that hurt you before no longer does, it doesn't mean if you seat on a chair you break it.

6C? What? Scroll up and you'll see Vanir stuff I've compiled. Konosuba characters, even the most destructive spell [Explosion] is barely 7C. Vanir was hit by volume 3 Megumin ---> Wiz's attack magic after turning lich was inefffective against Sylvia ---> Volume 5 megumin's explosion was the most powerful explosion Kazuma had ever seen (even after seeing Wiz) --> Volume 9 Megumin states her AP [Explosion] defeated Wiz sometime before volume 9

This entire thread is scaling things to what they really are, which is every character including Aqua but mostly other non-divine beings.

Vanir AP: most powerful known spell [ Death Ray] scales below Megumin's [Explosion] AP

Vanir Durability: Scales to volume 3 Megumi

It's also scaling down Megumin if you scroll above, her first calculation is based on the anime's fireball, the second calculation is based on a sidestory not written by the author and a feat not seen in the main novels and it's also something that happened between volume 1-4, meaning this feat should have been seen in the anime too.

ShiroyashaGinSan · Jun 20, 2019

Because the argument of "If you punctured something with 6-C force with a toothpick shouldn't the toothpick break?" has the same answer with "If a 6-C character barely hold a steel shouldn't it turn into dust?" And you just counteract your own argument. Congratulations.

What? Even at it's worst results, Explosion had High 7-C+ results and 6-C+ at most. You can see the calculations at the profiles. If you want to disprove them, prove that the calculations are wrong, not straight up ignore it.

I even know that the calc above is wack. Create a blog and let calc members take a look at it before you say downgrade.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 20, 2019

I stated:

Person A: Is equal in force (AP) to person B

Person B: Toothpick breaks because of durability vs tool used

Jesus, you made me google toothpick vs human skin it snaps but the tip pierces the skin. It's not my problem you can't understand.

"What? Even at it's worst results, Explosion had High 7-C+ results and 6-C+ at most. You can see the calculations at the profiles. If you want to disprove them, prove that the calculations are wrong, not straight up ignore it."

Scroll up then. Since you can't let me elaborate here. Firstly the first feat is based on the anime finale of season 1's fireball that put her explosion at "24.5 Megatons", in the novel this explosion obliterated the destroyer and that was it, no mention of it's magnitude or damage to the surrounding that an explosion of this magnitude would have caused. What did the manga do? Entirely skip this explosion just like the novel. Secondly Megumin's explosions were barely 8C building level this is based on the fact that she attacked Beldia's castle with explosions everyday and the established 20 meter crater the novel had stated in Volume 1 that we see in the anime adaptation that you can see above in this thread.

Also the second calculation is based on a sidestory not written by the author nor illustrated by the main artist. Megumin had cleared clouds covering the capital and the calculation put it at 59.3 Gigatons, the range at 8,000 meters. This happened between volumes 1-4, but wait where is this feat in the main novel? Is season 2 against Hans shouldn't we have seen something even close to this? In volume 5 why had Megumin state that something 1-2 kilometers away was barely within her range? Then if we look at Megumin's explosion compared to Wolbach, Megumin is a-bit more powerful (volume 9), but why I am I stating this? Well Wolbach has an explosion rating of "more than 90 points" from Kazuma and in Volume 5 Kazuma had rated Megumin's explosion "120 points", the difference between these points? Well the former needs multiple explosions just to destroy one fortress wall

ShiroyashaGinSan · Jun 20, 2019

And does that like work in fiction? It damaged her a bit, Kazuma did the trick, the tool didn't break because of Kazuma's force. It's simple as that.

First, attacking the castle to the point that it needs fixing isn't even 8-C. And yeah, it destroyed the Destroyer. LN didn't give us the height and width because it's unnecessary and it's physically unable to. Hence we use Anime. Anime calcs based on LN feats are accepted as a norm, look at Slime.

Yes, it's written by original author, I literally see that Akatsuki Natsume was the one who wrote this according to the LN I'm literally holding right now. No, it's not happening in 1-4, it's WAY before Iris was introduced and she's one of the main characters here plus she's already corrupted by Kazuma meaning it's after Volume 7, and before Volume 10 since that's when Volume 5 of the spin-off happened. So somewhere around 9. And they're completely canon, because they tie in to the main events of the main plotline, look at 5. This makes Volume 5 statement not working since Megumin already leveled up at this point.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 20, 2019

Are you joking? He had not exerted his full strength, the tool matters. I'd like to see you go prick an alligator or turtle with a toothpick and see if you can break the toothpick or pierce their outshells...

Castle needing fixing is below 8C yes since it was multiple explosions. LN skipped the destroyer part, so did the web novel, if you're calculations contradict later the LN or manga then you don't need to be a genius to see it was purely animator's handiwork. Also even then looking at fireball/fire radius in the second season it does not add up to her scaling (level gain) plus the crater she leaves (if you check above I've already compiled craters across season)

Also what are you talking about in your last paragraph?

Dust Spinoff:

- Written by Hirukuma

- Illustrated by Yuuki Hagure

You can literally search their names on google and found their links to this sidestory as well as the fact that the sypnosis says the story takes place between volume 1-4, the latter half takes place between volume 7-9.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_KonoSuba_volumes

https://cgtranslations.me/dustspinoff/

https://konosuba.fandom.com/wiki/Ano_Orokamono_ni_mo_Kyakkou_wo!

ShiroyashaGinSan · Jun 20, 2019

And again, this is fiction. A normal sword can cut steel and rocks, this is no different.

And what contradicts it? Also your argument about crater is invalid because it was mushroom explosion. Meaning fireball above is much more bigger than the crater itself by design.

Your argument is that the 6-C+ explosion wasn't in the seasons of Anime or in Vol 1-4 of LN so it doesn't fit. Then I debunked it by saying "yeah, because we aren't there yet".

µÜüÒÇÇÒü¬ÒüñÒéü = Akatsuki Natsume.

Muchacho_mrm · Jun 20, 2019

ShiroyashaGinSan said:
And again, this is fiction. A normal sword can cut steel and rocks, this is no different.
And what contradicts it? Also your argument about crater is invalid because it was mushroom explosion. Meaning fireball above is much more bigger than the crater itself by design.

Your argument is that the 6-C+ explosion wasn't in the seasons of Anime or in Vol 1-4 of LN so it doesn't fit. Then I debunked it by saying "yeah, because we aren't there yet".

µÜüÒÇÇÒü¬ÒüñÒéü = Akatsuki Natsume.

Firstly why are you showing story owner? Show Illustratrated by + Written by, because quite literally every google search result is by Hirukuma, taking credit? I don't think so.

Secondly for calculation you look at if it's an air blast or surface, in Megumin's case it was a surface blast for most of her explosions. You don't look at mushroom clouds but the displaced material (earth), disregarding craters, ignoring force (pressure) and looking at how big the mushroom or fire is (while disregarding no damage to the surroundings for example volume 4, season 2 forest Vanir explosion).

Thirdly my argument was that it wasn't in the anime and the LN, now I remember it was volume 7 since Claire remembered Kazuma, see above I've already said it's volume 1-9. LN feats for Megumin since this gigaton calculation not even written by the author should be seen in the LN? Nop, even at volume 9 there was no damage to the surrounding (just a crater), volume 13 she had a real feat of covering the top half of that creature (you can find above)

Kono Subarashii speed scaling & revisions

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