Ainz vs Aqua (Konosuba) Speed Equal

[FDrybob]

Even if we only look at the Soulbreaker Breath feat, Ainz still has very potent resistance. Cure Elim was able to steal the souls of millions of people and monsters at a time over a range of 250 kilometers with his wild magic, and his Soulbreaker Breath is supposed to be many times more potent than that, but Ainz's WCI still let him completely resist it.

 

[DeathNoodles]

@Apeironaxim

If you've looked at my previous arguments with him, Gabriel 00 definitely meant stronger in AP.

His logic is basically:

"If 9-B character has resistance to Existence Erasure at a physical level, and a 6-C character has Existence Erasure at a physical level, then 6-C character's Existence Erasure bypasses 9-B character's resistance to EE as his AP is higher" when it comes to durability-negating hax abilities such as Existence Erasure and Soul Manipulation.

That's basically his arguments against dura-negating hax abilities and resistance to said dura-negating hax.

 

[Apeironaxim]

...That's not how that works though

 

[DeathNoodles]

If reality slash doesn't kill her she can heal herself

@Deathnoodles, my claim that resistance can be overpowered by superior AP related to that hax is backed up by the resistance e hax pages on this wiki while you didn't show any proof to back up your claims, A character that focuses on a certain kind of hax is generally acepted as having superior hax to a lower tier character with said resistance and hax, a 9-B character with fire resistance doesn't resist a 6-A fire attack and as the hax page says, hax can come in all shapes and forms and the resistance page doesn't make any actuall distinction between regular resistances and hax resistance because they are basically the same thing. Also your argument of amount of targets affected, while it could be valid if they we're comparable in tier, affecting fodder ins't the best feat, in case you want an example just look at the 10 commandments pages from seven deadly sins they can rip away souls from entire towns and nobody considers them as having good soul manipulation, and going by your standards their soul manipulation would be insanely good.

About the world class items, why am i the one being condemned for saying that the claim they are superior to aqua is an outlier when nobody has shown any valid feats from world class items and their best "feat" is basically resisting a 7-B attack.

And a sidenote does anyone knows how ainz ressurection works?

I apologize for any poor grammar, i'm having trouble posting long coments.

There is nothing about the Resistance or Hax page that backs up your arguments when in regards to durability-negating hax abilities with known mechanics (for the most part). If anything, the only thing backing up your arguments is your interpretation of those pages that I fundamentally disagree with. And they don't make distinction between hax abilities because the mechanics can vary for each fictional setting, which is why hax abilities (especially ones with no known mechanics) tends to be judged on a case to case basis.

And yeah, the soul hax from those Seven Deadly Sins characters would be good if we actually know the exact amount of souls affected, its mechanics, and whether or not potency of soulhax can be scaled like mindhax.


I don't know why you're keeping using that "dura-negating hax resistances gets overpowered by the same hax resisted through sheer AP" from, but I do not like how you keep on repeating that point over and over like a broken record. It's honestly getting quite repetitive and tiring at this point.

 

[DeathNoodles]

...That's not how that works though

Exactly. But Gabriel 00 keeps on insisting it is.

 

[JorgeDaJiboia]

Even if we only look at the Soulbreaker Breath feat, Ainz still has very potent resistance. Cure Elim was able to steal the souls of millions of people and monsters at a time over a range of 250 kilometers with his wild magic, and his Soulbreaker Breath is supposed to be many times more potent than that, but Ainz's WCI still let him completely resist it.

this only says he has a big range/area of effect, not 'soul destruction power'.

It even says that on his page:

• Unnamed Wild Magic Soul-Stealing Spell: A powerful spell that Cure Elim used to steal the souls of all living things within 250 kilometers, and turn them into zombie thralls under his full control. It affected four entire countries at once due to its gigantic radius. However, powerful beings are able to resist the effect for a short time before succumbing.

If it can be resisted, it means it is not infinitely powerful, and this power can be measured. In this context, you don't need a WCI, just being powerful enough makes you resist the spell, but how powerful?

As it is stated in the Resistance page, a character without a soul, for example, would obviously be immune to soul manipulation. Ainz isn't immune, he just has resistance to it that comes from his WCI. A resistance that is as powerful as Soulbreaker Breath.

I'm using Cure Elim's AP (City Level) because that's the power of all his stuff. Just because Soulbreaker Breath ignores conventional durability doesn't mean its more potent than his other spells, just that it can ignore conventional durability.

 

[Gabriel_00]

My point about Ainz ressurrection is: Can he recreate his body? Going by previous thread i am assuming he cannot as nobody argued that ressurection was a factor when Ainz would get oneshoted.

Soul Hax from seven deadly sins is considered weak because it was only used in fodders despite how many fodders it affected. Neither the soul manipulation, resistance or hax page say anything about quantity of souls affected, it's not that hard to understand, 7-B with soul manipulation in a verse where SM is a common ability is considered stronger than 8-A with SM in a verse where SM is a common ability, also Aqua's AP is related to her hax. Just saying it doesn't work that way without providing actuall evidence isn't much of an argument, but as i said there are cases where number of targets or AOE is relevant for example: comparing the effectiveness of time stop on certain characters. If the hax is the character's main form of combat it is generally accepted as being a more potent version of the hax.

@FDrybob, i'm not dennying WCI feats, because they aren't even feats, conquering Nazarick is an in universe feat(the same thing as me saying the Big evil dragon defeated 1 million gods in a single night). Damaging every evil being in the world is impressive range but nothing else, sealing a world comes from a wish granting item therefore shound't even be aplied to the others the same way wish upon a star isn't related to other magic in terms of AP and second that it didn't even affect the world. I am not saying Ainz doesn't have those resistances i am saying they aren't on the level you are claiming they are.

 

[FDrybob]

Ainz can definitely recreate his body with his resurrection. Shalltear's resurrection item completely recreated her body after it was disintegrated by TGOALID, and her item should be no more powerful than his.

 

[Deleted member 4197]

• Unnamed Wild Magic Soul-Stealing Spell: A powerful spell that Cure Elim used to steal the souls of all living things within 250 kilometers, and turn them into zombie thralls under his full control. It affected four entire countries at once due to its gigantic radius. However, powerful beings are able to resist the effect for a short time before succumbing.

If it can be resisted, it means it is not infinitely powerful, and this power can be measured. In this context, you don't need a WCI, just being powerful enough makes you resist the spell, but how powerful?

As it is stated in the Resistance page, a character without a soul, for example, would obviously be immune to soul manipulation. Ainz isn't immune, he just has resistance to it that comes from his WCI. A resistance that is as powerful as Soulbreaker Breath.

I'm using Cure Elim's AP (City Level) because that's the power of all his stuff. Just because Soulbreaker Breath ignores conventional durability doesn't mean its more potent than his other spells, just that it can ignore conventional durability.

Actually thats completely wrong as per the side story it only happens in itself and the resistance is not "the spell fails", its "it takes longer to kick in", both not relevant topics for this section since 1) Its Wild Magic thus doesnt work on holders of World Items, something you both somehow missed 2) neither character here can use Wild Magic (tho aqua probably wouldnt be influenced by it due to origins of both settings genre, class and magic systems where artifacts and creatures of divine rank 6+, aqua likely being 5 or 6, both ignore interferences with the weave of magic) And Ainz by the rules of Overlord is actually soulless because he is a corporeal undead creature, incorporeal ones being the ones entirely made of the soul/soul & mind getting anchored while corporeal get body & *optionally* mind anchored.


And noone of this helps the fact that Aqua has never shown a single feat capable of preventing Ainz from gutting her like a fish (again her stat capped selfs divine STU cant penetrate at best* Improved Turn Resist/TR2/mod of +6 hit dice or if Dullabro were a better type of undead +8 hit dice, no chance in hell of doing anything her basic turn undead deals minor positive energy damage to TR3/+12 hit dice), especially since it takes her a few minutes to be able to cast the sacred version due to the ritual circle requirement). Not just that Wiz who is the best equivalent to what a no item and limited spell pool Ainz would be also guts her like a fish once Wiz actually starts acting like a lich instead of a adorkable starving depowered doormat (as proven by later half of vol 13 chapter 5 where she literally makes Aqua cower in fear and was at that point entirely uneffected by Aquas holy aura due to not longer being at her starving depowered self/she actually went and drained monsters and when when loveworried in town ate proper food due to Vanir instead of starting to starve/lose power again).

 

[Marquis_Samigina]

If it can be resisted, it means it is not infinitely powerful, and this power can be measured. In this context, you don't need a WCI, just being powerful enough makes you resist the spell, but how powerful?

Oh Lord, the chunk of text you quoted and bolded is on the Cure's profile due to FDrybob misinterpetation of the original text. Honestly, it should be gone for many reasons. I've tried to remove this little abomination, but, sadly, FD thinks otherwise on the matter, so he restored this superfluous detail.

Soulbreaker Breath ignores conventional durability doesn't mean its more potent than his other spells, just that it can ignore conventional durability.

Soulbreaker, as a Cure's trump card that costs a lot, was considered absurdly powerful in-verse, to an extent that it overshadows another spell in Cure's panoply which, ignoring the fact that said spell can be used apparently on daily basis, is capable of wiping millions of souls of various creatures in just one application and its AoE can spread to 250km. Ainz resisted SB not raising an eyebrow. Have Konosuba guys ever performed something remotely potent in AoE department and in the amount of targets? Anyway, Aqua supporters, please, drop that hax scales from AP bullshit.

Also, as an experienced user who lurked this site for years and understand mechanics of, for instance, how soulhax works, i'd say Ainz wins confidently FRA. Someone, pointing on the OP, should scroll down the thread and calculate the votes before it turn into complete shitstorm and misunderstanding.

 

[FDrybob]

In that case, you are free to fix Cure's profile. If you had explained it as you have now then I wouldn't have reverted the changes.

Anyway, grace is over in about five hours.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Votes:

Ainz:10 Marquis samigina, FDryboy, deathnoodles, Darkwraith, Apeironaxim, ANDELE3025, Bonesdowery, ThePixelKirby, Muchacho mrm, Akreious

Aqua:2 Gaberial00 JorgeDaJiboia

I think these are all the votes since the aqua death resist crt went through. if you feel Ive miscounted just notify me...

 

[Marquis_Samigina]

In that case, you are free to fix Cure's profile. If you had explained it as you have now then I wouldn't have reverted the changes.
Anyway, grace is over in about five hours.

As a Muchacho pointed out in Overlord General, it was probably Keno who copied imperfect version of Cure's spell and sucked all the souls in a smaller radius, parents incuded.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Guys bring it over to general discussion I agree that should probably be removed but's it best to get the general consensus of the overlord community.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Votes:

Ainz:10 Marquis samigina, FDryboy, deathnoodles, Darkwraith, Apeironaxim, ANDELE3025, Bonesdowery, ThePixelKirby, Muchacho mrm, Akreious

Aqua:2 Gaberial00 JorgeDaJiboia

I think these are all the votes since the aqua death resist crt went through. if you feel Ive miscounted just notify me...

Wow, are Gabriel and Jorge really the only ones using the flawed "Hax scales from AP" arguments? I've thought there would be more Aqua supporters, but I guess they're the only blatant Aqua supporters in this thread since the resistance to death CRT.


I don't think this thread needs to be banned or removed anyways (it definitely needs to be closed by a mod the moment grace is over though), it's just simply two or so users using flawed arguments about how dura-negating hax (and resistances to it) works.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

What does gfd stand for?

 

[DeathNoodles]

What does gfd stand for?

What do you mean? Does it have to do with that removed reply?

Edit: If it was meant to be an insult, I can only guess it means "go freaking (or replace the "freaking" with the f-bomb word) die" as an abbreviation for gfd.

Edit2: Nevermind. I've checked my inbox, it was just a user asking a question that's already answered. I honestly don't know if they asked that question first or said gfd first.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Yeah the removed reply says gfd from Apeironaxim....

edit to be specific it says gfd is the reason for removal...

 

[DeathNoodles]

Yeah the removed reply says gfd from Apeironaxim....

edit to be specific it says gfd is the reason for removal...

FDrybob said grace is over by 5 hours from before. Is grace period over now?

 

[Apeironaxim]

I realized that the CRT was finished after I posted the comment, so I went to remove it, and just typed quickly across the keyboard for the reason why I was removing

 

[DeathNoodles]

I realized that the CRT was finished after I posted the comment, so I went to remove it, and just typed quickly across the keyboard for the reason why I was removing

Ah, okay.

So, do you think grace period is over now?

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Lol no problem I was just confused if it was some internet lingo Im not up to date with...

And yeah grace seems to be over

 

[DeathNoodles]

Lol no problem I was just confused if it was some internet lingo Im not up to date with...

And yeah grace seems to be over

That's great to know.

Now we need someone to add the matches to both of the characters' profiles (preferably you, as the OP and all, but that's optional I guess) and contact one of the mods to close this thread before any further shitstorm happens.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

I'd rather not touch the profiles, I always worry Im going to botch it.

As for the mod someone should grab the staff

 

[DeathNoodles]

I'd rather not touch the profiles, I always worry Im going to botch it.

Guess I'll be the one doing this then.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Sorry and thank you!

 

[DeathNoodles]

Sorry and thank you!

I'm now done. And that's fine, it only took a few minutes on my phone.

Now we need a mod to close this thread.

 

[Ugarik]

There were 5 votes for Aqua. Where did 3 of them go?

 

[DeathNoodles]

There were 5 votes for Aqua. Where did 3 of them go?

They likely has not been included as they might've taken place before Aqua's death resist CRT was complete.

Either way, it doesn't matter as the difference of 5-8 is already enough for Ainz to win, with grace period already being over.

Edit: I couldn't find any other users blatantly voting for Aqua outside of Jorge and Gabriel, especially after the death resist CRT that has reset the vote, and there are likely more votes for Ainz than 8 (which is why the OP counted 10 votes for Ainz). Either way, it doesn't matter much, as Grace Period is already over (even if we're assuming it's 5-8).