Accelerator vs Ainz Ooal Gown....again.

[Akreious]

Accessories literally shitstomps, the ngga can f├║cking beat Naruto & Ichigo, he can def beat a faggy skeleton like Ainz

**** off with your shitposting.

Now back to the actual discussion.

You just posted it above.

"Even using strange magic could no longer harm the #1 with an unnaturally distorted reflection."

I shouldn't have said all magic wouldn't work though since it's still very much based on what Accelerator does or doesn't understand.

You can still make arguments for certain types of magic that Accelerator still might not understand,

This is textbook definition of NLF though? Unless Accelerator has displayed the capability to reflect something that explicitly doesn't have a Vector (Which "Reflection" implies would require), we can't assume that he can.

Also let me get this straight you are basing this on someone not mentioning the word "vectorless"? When has Kamachi ever described anything as "Vectorless"? This is only a term used on battleboards for the most part. Nobody who knows real life science and Maths and knows how scalars and vectors truly work would use such a term in the first place.

The only time that term is used in Science and Maths is when they are describing a vectorless field or space.

Also this whole argument is based on the assumption that Accelerator controls vectors related to physics and only physics. The assumption that Accelerator controls the quanity not the concept.

In this context, Vectorless means exactly that: Something without vectors. Just because you don't use it in normal physics doesn't all of a sudden make it any less valid since Vectorless things in real life don't exist.

The 2nd bolded is also a NLF. Unless you can substantiate your claims, reflection requires a vector. Without a vector, an attack would and should go straight through Accelerator's field. You can't give Accelerator capabilities he hasn't shown nor implied to have.

 

[The_Coolest_Water_Bottle]

He/she is, just look at his/her contributions and the pages he/she made.

 

[Scrlk666777]

@Akreious

It's more of a NLD than NLF.

It's not the case of needing or not needing a vector, of course vectors have to be involved, however there are many examples of vectors and depending what you are studying, this can vary. For example in certain areas Vectors are basically Mathematical objects, in other areas they are basically a list of numbers and of course the most known example of a vector is in physics which is something with a magnitide and a direction.

 

[TypeAxiom]

I'm aware that Accelerator can even affect other-dimensional vectors such as for teleportation if you're worried about me "[assuming] that Accelerator controls vectors related to physics and only physics."

The difference is, that particular kind of non-traditional/physical vector (and other kinds I can't think of) have been explicitly mentioned and thus can be used as an argument. What I'm looking for is the same thing for magic.

I would like examples of one or several of the following:

1. Interrupting magic through his powers and not something like distraction

2. Dispelling magic in general (weak proof)

3. Interrupting or dispelling instantly cast magic

This is so I can see for myself that Ainz will not be able to cast his death magic.


Also, I believe that if we're arguing about whether or not Accelerator can "understand" death magic, the burden of proof is not on me. Rather, the side claiming that Accelerator has the ability to nullify Ainz's spells should provide the proof.

(I'm also physically unable to provide proof since I haven't read the novel. Sorry)

 

[Accelerate420]

I'm aware that Accelerator can even affect other-dimensional vectors such as for teleportation if you're worried about me "[assuming] that Accelerator controls vectors related to physics and only physics."
The difference is, that particular kind of non-traditional/physical vector (and other kinds I can't think of) have been explicitly mentioned and thus can be used as an argument. What I'm looking for is the same thing for magic.

I would like examples of one or several of the following:

1. Interrupting magic through his powers and not something like distraction

2. Dispelling magic in general (weak proof)

3. Interrupting or dispelling instantly cast magic

This is so I can see for myself that Ainz will not be able to cast his death magic.


Also, I believe that if we're arguing about whether or not Accelerator can "understand" death magic, the burden of proof is not on me. Rather, the side claiming that Accelerator has the ability to nullify Ainz's spells should provide the proof.

(I'm also physically unable to provide proof since I haven't read the novel. Sorry)

Literally all this can be found in NT22 and NT22R lmao.

>Nulled Neph's Magic body. If she had gotten hit by his anti-magic spears, she would've immediately died. Her body is a walking magic life-force.

>1 and 3 was in NT22R when he was preventing the omnidimensional slashes from entering his field. Slashes were said to ignore and cut through all dimensions at any spatial coordinate, yet it couldn't reach inside his barrier.

>Interacted with conceptual/metaphyiscal energies with his vectors

>Literally no sold Flaming_Magick sword which is a multiverse buster magic that not even Imagine Breaker could null

If his Death Magic requires transmission it's not reaching him. The argument at this point on whether something can be done inside his field is also looking flimsy when a Dimensional severing spell that works on coordinates couldn't activate inside him either, so the instant death might not even reach him possibly. Post Accelerator essentionally has Anti-Magic in Base form as he can activate the Clonoth Calculations to protect himself immediately off the bat. So curses and the like, probably even instant death, could not activate inside his field or hit him.

Those are my two bits. Anyways, this is either a stomp in Accel's favor or a low-dif like TIHY said so I guess I'll just vote Accel. He'll out-calculate and vector Ainz with a thought as Current Accel doesn't hold back.

 

[Scrlk666777]

Basically what @Accelerate420 said, I couldn't have put it any better than that, mainly because quite honestly I'm terrible at explaining things.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

>Nulled Neph's Magic body. If she had gotten hit by his anti-magic spears, she would've immediately died. Her body is a walking magic life-force.

I assume she's made out of magical energy, not sure how nullifying magical energy means that you nullify the abilities. For example nullifying a flame spell means the magical energy that powered those flames are gone and now you have to deal with the heat as it disappears. Context matters, another example is magical energy and magical flames, nullifying one means you've either dealt with the either or you have to act twice. What a weird verse...

>1 and 3 was in NT22R when he was preventing the omnidimensional slashes from entering his field. Slashes were said to ignore and cut through all dimensions at any spatial coordinate, yet it couldn't reach inside his barrier.

Doesn't 'all dimensions' mean that he can defend against time stop? Isn't time the 4th dimension?

>Interacted with conceptual/metaphyiscal energies with his vectors

Are they magical? For example a type of energy that contained/powered a concept like death...

>Literally no sold Flaming_Magick sword which is a multiverse buster magic that not even Imagine Breaker could null

Amazing feat I guess.


It comes down to, can Accel reflect instant death? Yes? Okay this match is now a stomp. Can Accel reflect any spells as soon as time stop finishes or will Ainz become victorious? Not sure? Let's just flip a coin then, lol. Which is why there isn't a point in this thread.

 

[Accelerate420]

>Nulled Neph's Magic body. If she had gotten hit by his anti-magic spears, she would've immediately died. Her body is a walking magic life-force.
I assume she's made out of magical energy, not sure how nullifying magical energy means that you nullify the abilities. For example nullifying a flame spell means the magical energy that powered those flames are gone and now you have to deal with the heat as it disappears. Context matters, another example is magical energy and magical flames, nullifying one means you've either dealt with the either or you have to act twice. What a weird verse...

>1 and 3 was in NT22R when he was preventing the omnidimensional slashes from entering his field. Slashes were said to ignore and cut through all dimensions at any spatial coordinate, yet it couldn't reach inside his barrier.

Doesn't 'all dimensions' mean that he can defend against time stop? Isn't time the 4th dimension?

>Interacted with conceptual/metaphyiscal energies with his vectors

Are they magical? For example a type of energy that contained/powered a concept like death...

>Literally no sold Flaming_Magick sword which is a multiverse buster magic that not even Imagine Breaker could null

Amazing feat I guess.


It comes down to, can Accel reflect instant death? Yes? Okay this match is now a stomp. Can Accel reflect any spells as soon as time stop finishes or will Ainz become victorious? Not sure? Let's just flip a coin then, lol. Which is why there isn't a point in this thread.

Can he reflect instant death? Assuming he activates the Clonoth immediately, I'm saying yes.

If time stop is immediately activated? Then Accel gets stomped if the effect happens during time stop. If it has to wait until time stop is over, then it still gets nulled. His field gets a boost against all Magic and takes on anti-magic capabilities when supplied by Qliphah and the Clonoth's knowledge.

Ainz only win condition is time-stop, otherwise it's a stomp.

To answer your other question, it's full anti-magic.

Yes, it was magical. It was magical contract energy.

Time stop is different from fiction to fiction. Stopping the Time Axis itself /may/ relate to dimensions but I personally do not count it until we see it happen more in Index as only Magic Gods have that power as of right now.

TL;DR Magical Energy is something he can defend and take complete control against and has demonstrated it multiple times. The effect will also be reflected. It's a method that completey destroys the magical affect. When he grazed Neph, her body couldn't regenerate the hair lost. It was gone. So he can disperse and ""delete""" spells. I choose that word to make it as clear as possible that both the effect and magic will be redirected/dispersed.

 

[TypeAxiom]

- Antimagic Spear: The antimagic spear seems like something that Neph was able to dodge and thus has a travel time. Can it do anything against an instantly activated magic without(?) vectors?

- Omnidimensional Slash: Elizard says: "It would seem you cannot prevent the actual omnidimensional slicing." In other words, even with Qliphah's support in analyzing the magic that Elizard is using, she cannot fully prevent the magic of the sword from "slic[ing] through the very coordinates at which the barrier exists." This establishes that Qliphah is not omnipotent when it comes to nullifying magic.

- Magic Flaming Sword: I'm not familiar with what this is, but perhaps you're talking about Fiamma? I checked the wiki (since I don't know where to check the source where the no-sold happened, feel free to find it), and the sword didn't have any particular qualities that would make it immune to vector control, since Fiamma is swinging it and all. Additionally, the wording of the wiki implies that size was the reason Imagine Breaker didn't work.

- Conceptual/Metaphysical energies: I'm sorry, you're going to have to be a bit more specific than that.


We don't know how the instant death is targetted for Ainz's Grasp Heart spell. It might not even be coordinates, so Elizard's example would be rather irrelevant. Additionally, if what I said above is correct, it seems that Oliphah has limits on her ability to nullify magic, so I don't think we should count out Ainz's ability to beat Accelerator.

Similar to you, until I am satisfied with Accelerator's ability to nullify magic, I will continue voting for Ainz.

 

[TIHYDDWBE]

There isn't solid proof of this but Accelerator should be able to nullify every magic ability in toaru with his Vector shield as of now, which would include time manip. No proof yet but food for thought.

Accel still stomps or low diffs. don't get the obsession with this fight between the two.

 

[Accelerate420]

- Antimagic Spear: The antimagic spear seems like something that Neph was able to dodge and thus has a travel time. Can it do anything against an instantly activated magic without(?) vectors?
- Omnidimensional Slash: Elizard says: "It would seem you cannot prevent the actual omnidimensional slicing." In other words, even with Qliphah's support in analyzing the magic that Elizard is using, she cannot fully prevent the magic of the sword from "slic[ing] through the very coordinates at which the barrier exists." This establishes that Qliphah is not omnipotent when it comes to nullifying magic.

- Magic Flaming Sword: I'm not familiar with what this is, but perhaps you're talking about Fiamma? I checked the wiki (since I don't know where to check the source where the no-sold happened, feel free to find it), and the sword didn't have any particular qualities that would make it immune to vector control, since Fiamma is swinging it and all. Additionally, the wording of the wiki implies that size was the reason Imagine Breaker didn't work.

- Conceptual/Metaphysical energies: I'm sorry, you're going to have to be a bit more specific than that.


We don't know how the instant death is targetted for Ainz's Grasp Heart spell. It might not even be coordinates, so Elizard's example would be rather irrelevant. Additionally, if what I said above is correct, it seems that Oliphah has limits on her ability to nullify magic, so I don't think we should count out Ainz's ability to beat Accelerator.

Similar to you, until I am satisfied with Accelerator's ability to nullify magic, I will continue voting for Ainz.

...No. I'm talking about Coronzon's Flaming_Magick Sword which was comparable to Othinu's 1 billion universe throwing spear and he redirected it casually.

He interacted with the energy in a metaphysical contract that is intangiable. He cut off the energy and denied Coronzon's contract with Qliphah which was Law/Conceptual in nature all with vectors.

That has nothing to do with Qliphah. It just means it can't activate inside his shield and it needs to activate at the coordinates it begins to enter inside. That still means you can't manipulate shit inside him.

The anti magic spear is not the problem. It's his field that carries Anti Magic properties as well. He has gained nigh omnisience against Magic in the Verse so Magic, as far as I'm concerned, is not entering or touching him with Clonoth active. Unless you can tell me /why/ it would enter if a spell that cuts through universes and anything with omnidirectionality can't enter his field. Because Dimensional Severing Spell has no vectors as well as far as I'm concerned.

I think you should stop debating this if you have no idea what any of these feats means, which you clearly don't. Vote who you want, but it's still a stomp. Doesn't matter who it is. So this thread is now pointless.

Also because people are horny for the Accel vs Time-stop match ups lmao. They think it's easy wins then get confused when Accel suddenly thinks.

 

[TypeAxiom]

Can he reflect instant death? Assuming he activates the Clonoth immediately, I'm saying yes.

If time stop is immediately activated? Then Accel gets stomped if the effect happens during time stop. If it has to wait until time stop is over, then it still gets nulled. His field gets a boost against all Magic and takes on anti-magic capabilities when supplied by Qliphah and the Clonoth's knowledge.

Ainz only win condition is time-stop, otherwise it's a stomp.

To answer your other question, it's full anti-magic.

Yes, it was magical. It was magical contract energy.

I took the liberty to trim down and modify your quote.

Questions from a non-Index fan (please answer with supporting evidence):

Why does Clonoth mean he can reflect instant death?

While I understand that he destroyed Neph's magical body, he still had to use a vector spear to do it, i.e he had to interact with it. Why is death magic activated (near?) instantly automatically included in it? I am not convinced that he can interfere with the instant death spell (which was the reason for my original questions.)


Edit: I'm going to read up and refresh in about 10 minutes so we're not missing each other with our replies.

 

[Accelerate420]

Because it's automatic and passive. If foreign magic enters his field (which it can't by Curtana feats) it'll immediately be dispersed by his boosted properties.

"Accessing Clonoth. Calculation substitution has begun."

Yes.

Even using strange magic could no longer harm the #1 with an unnaturally distorted reflection.

And his interceptions did not just take the form of physical pebbles and metal nails.

"Don't assume you alone can use magic. He's already analyzed that world!!"

 

[Accelerate420]

This thread should be closed anyways. It's either a stomp for Accel or a stomp for Ainz depending on the interpretation.

 

[Scrlk666777]

I'm going to ask someone to close this thread. I think the majority are in agreement that it should be closed.

 

[Accelerate420]

For whom this may concern and answering the other guy on why the Grasp Heart/Death Magic are comparable to Dimension Severing Spell.

Coordinates are spatial coordinates where someone is standing. Right? If I calculate the coordinates inside ACcel's field at, say, his heart and I clench my fist. That means his heart explodes.

However with the Clonoth, it'll deny any negative effects that he doesn't want inside his field such as Magic since he has analyzed the complete world of Magic. That should include curses/instant death. It's passive and automatic that works on at least MFTL+ reaction timing calculation speed if you /really/ wanna get specific. So thus, unless it's 100% instantaenous, it will not out-speed his fields reaction timing to disperse it.

Death Magic absolutely works similarlty because Teleportation, while it requires coordinates, is transporting matter. Dimension Severing is omnidirectional and is NOT transporting anything. It cuts space exactly where it needs to after the blade is swung.

Accel's vectors have and always did work on 'whatever i want it to work on' so it doesn't matter if it's law or conceptual in nature. Accel is getting Conceptual manipulation soon anyways as well with the Clonoth soon after we revise this.

>Is Death Magic Harmful? Yes? Okay, filtered

That's it.

Anyways, close this pls.

 

[Scrlk666777]

I've just sent a message to Schnee. So we just have to wait until they get back to us.

 

[Schnee_One]

Yeah this match sucks.