• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Cell Games Saga revisions (Dragon Ball Z)

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm looking at the comments which have been made and, unless I'm wrong here, I don't think Damage is trying to say that these amped attacks don't come from the user's own Ki or anything like that. He's simply stating that to reach that power in the first place, they first have to charge up their energy to that point but can't exert that level of power through normal attacks and punches. Examples being Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon or Goku's Instant Kamehameha or Vegeta's Final Flash where, though it is indeed from their energy, they have to build it up and aren't using that energy in normal attacks or blasts.

That's all I have to say on the matter, because I think Damage's argument is being misinterpreted a bit when it's not what he's trying to say.
 
Nah I dont fully agree with this. mainly because this was while cell was still charging the kamehameha, and his statement doesnt in anyway imply that that's his limit, which we already know since he's 47X above baseline. So at worst him and SSJ2 gohan should still scale to 4-B baseline physically and with even uncharged attacks.
 
SSJ2 Vegeta's Final explosion/Galic Gun, SSJ2/3 Goku max Ki attack and everyone that scales to SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta should have solar-system level AP
 
Ryzen7900X said:
Nah I dont fully agree with this. mainly because this was while cell was still charging the kamehameha, and his statement doesnt in anyway imply that that's his limit, which we already know since he's 47X above baseline. So at worst him and SSJ2 gohan should still scale to 4-B baseline physically and with even uncharged attacks.
Click to expand...
Nobody was arguing that was his limit anyway.

Still wouldn't mean his normal attacks scale though.
 
Damage3245 said:
Nobody was arguing that was his limit anyway.

Still wouldn't mean his normal attacks scale though.
Click to expand...
why not? Im pretty sure we list Ki as a UES and there's absolutely no reason to assume that an attack that isnt even fully charged yet amps someone by >47X that was never implied much less stated. Theres like maybe one such instance in the entire verse and thats an exception not the rule
 
Veronica said:
SSJ2 Vegeta's Final explosion/Galic Gun, SSJ2/3 Goku max Ki attack and everyone that scales to SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta should have solar-system level AP
Click to expand...
Oh yeah, the way the Final Explosion works is that Vegeta lets out all of his energy until he’s completely out, right? I think given he uses it as a last resort in Super as well it would make sense for the Final Explosion to be stronger than any other attack he or potentially any other character can use. It might break my 4x suggestion though since it arguably should also be stronger than the 100x boost of the Destructo-Disc, however I’m not sure if that makes it survivable for Buu. It might though since Buu doesn’t take the full brunt of energy due to the explosion being omnidirectional and all.
 
Ryzen7900X said:
why not? Im pretty sure we list Ki as a UES and there's absolutely no reason to assume that an attack that isnt even fully charged yet amps someone by >47X that was never implied much less stated. Theres like maybe one such instance in the entire verse and thats an exception not the rule
Click to expand...
Then make another thread debunking the original.
 
Actually I had a question in regards to scaling, and I sort of asked this earlier in the thread but I kind of wanted to build up from it: Even if Cell and Gohan no longer scale physically to 4-B, couldn't an argument be made that Ssj2 Goku and Vegeta and those equal or above them to physically 4-B? Goku and Vegeta are both individually stronger then Gohan was against Cell, which makes them stronger then Cell as well, so my thought was that Goku and Vegeta should scale above the output Gohan and Cell put into their attacks at the end of the Cell Saga.

If this doesn't work then I won't try arguing for it, I was just curious to know if there could be some basis to it
 
Ghengiroo115 said:
Oh yeah, the way the Final Explosion works is that Vegeta lets out all of his energy until he’s completely out, right? I think given he uses it as a last resort in Super as well it would make sense for the Final Explosion to be stronger than any other attack he or potentially any other character can use. It might break my 4x suggestion though since it arguably should also be stronger than the 100x boost of the Destructo-Disc, however I’m not sure if that makes it survivable for Buu. It might though since Buu doesn’t take the full brunt of energy due to the explosion being omnidirectional and all.
Click to expand...
SSJ3 Goku did physically deflect Pure Buu, Kamehameha. Although Buu seems far from full power.
 
lol the fact that SSJ gotenks being above father-son kamehameha is potentially under question is enough to tell me how nonsensical this change is
 
Ryzen7900X said:
anyone with even a passing understanding of dragon ball would know the answer is yes. These threads are an unnecessarily pedantic attempt to fish for any and all downgrades possible lol
Click to expand...
The thing is the power gap between Cell and Buu Saga isn't that massive. Goku and Vegeta only surpassed Gohan as a SSJ2. So at best even if they were as powerful as him as SSJ, which is unlikely. They would be only 2x Gohan's power and 8x as a SSJ3 and SSJ Gotenks is around SSJ3 level and SPC Ki attack is above x3 his own. So
 
KingTempest said:
Imma put this as a formal warning.

If yall want to keep acting like this is a witch hunt then I can start throwing out thread bans. If you can argue, do it. If you can't, stop whining and get out
Click to expand...
is there a rule against stating an observation? If not then I dont see what I did wrong other than presumably offending damage. And please dont act like its out of nowhere this is a repeated pattern with him for multiple verses and multiple people including Topaz have called it out and were right. We have every right to complain about someone's modus operandi
 
Ryzen7900X said:
is there a rule against stating an observation?
Click to expand...
You're just whining.
It's annoying and disruptive.
KingTempest said:
made exploding ghosts with his face.

This doesn't make sense to be talking about power
Click to expand...
Aren't they super-powerful ghosts?

0297-002.png
0297-003.png
 
@Ryzen7900X If verses stopped being grossly overrated then maybe I wouldn't have a "pattern" of proposing downgrades for them, go figure.

Maybe I'd actually end up more frequently posting upgrades if other people hadn't already tried proposing every upgrade imaginable.

We had someone trying to make the circumference of the Dragon Ball Earth around 40 million kilometers just recently.... No wonder I have to be around to post downgrades, and by the way this topic wasn't even started by me, it was started by Null who posted the previous thread; I just posted this thread to follow up on it.
 
These aren't just observations, you guys (you specifically) are making accusations of intent.

"These threads are an unnecessarily pedantic attempt to fish for any and all downgrades possible lol"

And regardless of if right or not, does it push forward the thread at all? No.

So stop complaining, continue to debate against it, and get over it.

Yall are complaining about a thread that's sole purpose is just saying "this thread was already accepted, let's apply it"
 
KingTempest said:
These aren't just observations, you guys (you specifically) are making accusations of intent.
Click to expand...
and that stems from an observation I made. and its a complaint yes
KingTempest said:
"These threads are an unnecessarily pedantic attempt to fish for any and all downgrades possible lol"

And regardless of if right or not, does it push forward the thread at all? No.
Click to expand...
okay fair
KingTempest said:
So stop complaining, continue to debate against it, and get over it.

Yall are complaining about a thread that's sole purpose is just saying "this thread was already accepted, let's apply it"
Click to expand...
prolly cuz I hadnt even joined when that thread was made lol
 
The_Unknown_Warrior1 said:
I'm looking at the comments which have been made and, unless I'm wrong here, I don't think Damage is trying to say that these amped attacks don't come from the user's own Ki or anything like that. He's simply stating that to reach that power in the first place, they first have to charge up their energy to that point but can't exert that level of power through normal attacks and punches. Examples being Piccolo's Special Beam Cannon or Goku's Instant Kamehameha or Vegeta's Final Flash where, though it is indeed from their energy, they have to build it up and aren't using that energy in normal attacks or blasts.

That's all I have to say on the matter, because I think Damage's argument is being misinterpreted a bit when it's not what he's trying to say.
Click to expand...
That's not the issue, it's that he is implying that cell's Kamehameha takes him from below baseline to 47x above baseline based on nothing, KHH doesn't give that kind of boost, there are very few techniques in dragon ball that give a magnanimous boost like that.

No one is saying KHH doesn't scale above normal attacks

But over 47x?
But it seems to already have been approved anyway.....so, no need
 
Damage3245 said:
@Ryzen7900X If verses stopped being grossly overrated then maybe I wouldn't have a "pattern" of proposing downgrades for them, go figure.
Click to expand...
not a reason to propose downgrades. you're essentially admitting that you're doing this to "balance out" what you think is "gross overrating" which is precisely what I was saying lol
Damage3245 said:
Maybe I'd actually end up more frequently posting upgrades if other people hadn't already tried proposing every upgrade imaginable.
Click to expand...
not really relevant. Im not complaining about you not proposing upgrades its fine if you dont
Damage3245 said:
We had someone trying to make the circumference of the Dragon Ball Earth around 40 million kilometers just recently.... No wonder I have to be around to post downgrades, and by the way this topic wasn't even started by me, it was started by Null who posted the previous thread; I just posted this thread to follow up on it.
Click to expand...
And pretty much everyone with a functional brain disagreed with that thread. I dont think anyone serious believes that nonsense. regardless thats still not a good reason to propose downgrades
 
Damage3245 said:
This just seems like an argument from incredulity to be honesty.
Click to expand...
Really?

Not like I gave every other instance of the KHH not giving anywhere near that boost advantage? As opposed to you saying "people have attacks that upscale so automatically he should go down a tier"?

But sure... incredulity


Look, there is no need going further on about it anyway, I am assuming KT already gave his approval as well, so, no need
 
Ryzen7900X said:
not a reason to propose downgrades. you're essentially admitting that you're doing this to "balance out" what you think is "gross overrating" which is precisely what I was saying lol
Click to expand...
yeah, if someone finds something about a verse wrong, they have the right to post a thread to try and correct it......this is how this site works
 
Ryzen7900X said:
lol so you're allowed to call my disapproval "whining" but the moment I call such attempts a desperate attempt to fish downgrades Im a bad guy? lmao
Click to expand...
I mean no diss to you, but you're coming in into the thread and accusing Damage of fishing for every possible DB downgrade and claiming he does this for other verses does make you come off as being antagonistic. You can disagree with Damage and the thread all you want, but you don't have to slander him and treat this as if Damage is purposefully trying to downgrade DB as opposed to seeing faults and wanting to correct them accordingly.
 
omegabronic said:
yeah, if someone finds something about a verse wrong, they have the right to post a thread to try and correct it......this is how this site works
Click to expand...
sure you're allowed to downgrade that specific thing which is apparently a "gross overrating" (and he probably didnt mean 4-B cell when he was talking about grossly overrated) not something else entirely which is merely a game of semantics and a competition of who can be more pedantic while throwing out commonly accepted mechanics for the verse.

Regardless Im disengaging from this thread.
 
Nierre said:
per usual damage cooking with these Dragon Ball threads. agree with the thread fra. disagree with downscaling fra
Click to expand...
All credit to Nullflowerblush tbh. I'm just making this to implement the earlier changes from his thread, but thanks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

The_Yellow_Topaz
  • Locked
SSJ2 Gohan should NOT be 2x stronger than Super Perfect Cell
2 3 4
Replies
121
Views
5K
Damage3245
Damage3245
DesuGoten
  • Locked
Goten, Trunks, and Gotenks 2-C Upgrade
2
Replies
49
Views
3K
CBslayeR
CBslayeR
Hagane_no_Saiyajin
  • Locked
A very controvsersial AP upgrade thread for Dragon Ball
Replies
32
Views
3K
Lonkitt
Lonkitt
Hagane_no_Saiyajin
  • Locked
Another very controvsersial AP upgrade thread for Dragon Ball
Replies
16
Views
2K
Qawsedf234
Qawsedf234
Nullflowerblush
  • Locked
Cell is getting nerfed. (Dragon Ball)
9 10 11
Replies
403
Views
17K
MeiouHades
MeiouHades
Back
Top