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Gonna trigger both Re:Zero and Gunvolt fans for no reason: Reinhard vs Gunvolt

Zabazab said:
Basically, Reinhard can beat the soul of the world itself in a fight. This soul of the world is the Od Lagna, and is the one that grants his Blessings, but it's also an existence that partially exists as a different, endless white dimension where souls get cleansed for re-use. This Od Lagna is also one of the entities that view the world as a mere play or game, and control all of fate at will.
Click to expand...
We need a CRT for this.
 
Smashtwig said:
(This refers to the Haki stuff), I’m gonna take it as if it was accepted. There’s no point in not including it it’s gonna be in there anyways later on

Bro the amount of rizz you can have with this power…

I guess the instant transmutation would work, but probably not his first move, buying Rein some time
Click to expand...
yes, Reinhard is also the most attractive male in existence so he definitely should not have problem pulling
Smashtwig said:
Aight bro I’ll take ur word for it GV has all the verse powers too but not in this key sadge

Not sure if big giant dragons have pressure points tho especially the one that’s gonna be passively making Rein berserk and making him do kill shots more than half the time
Click to expand...
the layered madness hax resistance has been accepted so again i dont think that would affect Reinhard in anyway
Smashtwig said:
Yeah I’m just gonna say he can conceptually hit stuff for this match. No point of doing a match if the CRT is just gonna delete the match right after. But that’s not the point, Prevasion (the whole intangible electron thing) is a 4D thing that intangs 4D attacks, potentially layered too (u can ignore the layer if you like, I’m still unsure of it’s actual existence). So I gotta know, what are the only 4D things that exist in the verse that can let Rein do this
Click to expand...
I think if we include that along with 4D then Reinhard actually can kill GV with his nuke? I will make it clear that i think its really iffy rn and we should wait because Reinhard's stuff is probably gonna get way more abstract in nature
Smashtwig said:
Heck I’m not even sure if it’s still electrons anymore because it can just work on existence erasure

Also, reminder that Prevasion doesn't exist in the Dragon State that he will eventually reach though Rein would have to deal with Dragon Radiation in exchange

Fair enough. But the Dragon Radiation is the whole madness/berserk thing we were discussing earlier and can be multi-layered or be 4D (what I’ll probably do in the CRT, but you’re free to ignore 4D if you wish cuz I’m not sure if it’ll pass)- which you… didn’t seem to come up with a counter argument for resisting since you switching the conversation to sleep hax
Click to expand...
not sure if i did or not but anyways, Reinhard directly resists multiple layers of Madness hax so it shouldnt effect him in anyway unless its 4D which would bypass that
Smashtwig said:
Of course theres still a chance that Reinhard just randomly hits just weak enough to do a knockout instead of a kill shot, which kinda makes this not a total stomp in GVs favor but still really hard for rein
Click to expand...
if his honest to god better way of winning is a knockout blow then his GI would probably tell him to do that...
Smashtwig said:
Nah, Septima is thought based, in the feat he just thinks about it and then it happens (he did it to his friends because lore). So here he’d likey just think about turning Reinhard into EM Waves and boom he’s gone.

Again I personally don’t like the argument, but I have to represent all of views people could, will, and have argued for GV’s side. So I have to put my own personal opinions aside

The fact that he can do at any time it is a large advantage, but it’s not guaranteed to happen. It’s more of a supporting “if that’s not enough” kind of argument that tips the scales in his favor to not be a complete stomp thanks to it not always happening if this fight was done like a 100 times.
Click to expand...
makes sense, Reinhard has his own possible haxes that he refuses to use due to CiS
good thing the transmutation is 4D cause Reinhard resists it as well 🗿
Smashtwig said:
Also, I prefer using unaccepted arguments from my opponent’s side so that way we don’t waste all of our time on this match because a revision. I prefer keeping matches on the pages lol, I don’t wanna just delete them off the pages as soon as we get them off because then wtf was the point in all of this lol
Click to expand...
i get you but also its kind of frustrating when people mention abilities that you cant really confirm if they exist or not which is why the standard exists in the first place
this website has enough wanking already without that lmao
 
Zabazab said:
Again, it's not accepted/on pages yet, so it's just for the fun of discussion.
Click to expand...
I prefer keeping it anyways , there's no point in this match if the CRT is gonna delete it. I'll keep this argument so that way
Zabazab said:
Basically, Reinhard can beat the soul of the world itself in a fight. This soul of the world is the Od Lagna, and is the one that grants his Blessings, but it's also an existence that partially exists as a different, endless white dimension where souls get cleansed for re-use. This Od Lagna is also one of the entities that view the world as a mere play or game, and control all of fate at will.
Click to expand...
Ah, I see why this can be a contentious thing, it's "partially" a dimension so Rein could just be hitting the part that isn't a dimension too

But for sake of simplicity I'll just say Rein can hit 4D structures. I'm still doubtful about the whole thing him discovering an entirely new subatomic particle because he needs to, just because he can answer tests intuitively (which at least have documentated answers), just by seeing light holograms

All of that including the fact that Prevasion can defend from a multiversal attack instead of a universal one like what seems to be the case with Od L.

In addition, GV can mix up the type of Prevasion he can do. He can transform into electrons, radio waves, EM Waves, electronic data, electricity on its own etc. And Rein would have to adapt to each one before GV tries a transmutation or a more likely two new arguments I just came up with

Let's hypothetically say that Reinhard sees GV just standing there and somehow figures out by him just standing there that he can turn into all those specific types of things with Prevasion and also that he can see the High G Regen so he needs to knock him out, just by GV standing there- and he does it

Lumen (whose with GV 24/7, and is part of his powerset) has a history of bringing back GV when he's going or about to go unconscious , she can just activate Anthem right there and GV will be back up on his feet. From there, GV can do an actually very likely move which is use his Class P Electromagnetism (might be 4D since it can control another magnetism ability that has 4D stuff) to trap Rein in this massive EM Field and crush or tear Rein (only Class T) pretty much instantly- the range would be big enough to bypass any skill gap. In fact GV can do this right off the gate. Even if Rein survives for a moment teleports out, GV has a Passive EM Field around him at all times, and since Rein is a Melee fighter, he'll be caught again. And if Rein goes ranged, GV can teleport of the way of ranged attacks back into close range (or long range if he wants to), up until GV goes Primal Dragon and the radiation takes effect

The second option is more unlikely than the Transmutation, but it's worth mentioning. Lumen's mind manipulation can be interpreted to be even better than the Dragon Radiation


I should also mention it's not specified how long GV takes to become a full Primal Dragon. It could be long enough for GV to do the above I just mentioned but also enough time for Rein to figure him out, or it could be short/instant enough for Primal Dragon GV to come out before Rein can figure out he needs to knock the dude out before he instantly goes berserk kill mode from the radiation
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
yes, Reinhard is also the most attractive male in existence so he definitely should not have problem pulling
Click to expand...
Bro is cheating the system
SatellaTheWoE said:
the layered madness hax resistance has been accepted so again i dont think that would affect Reinhard in anyway
Click to expand...
How many again? 2 if I recall?
SatellaTheWoE said:
I think if we include that along with 4D then Reinhard actually can kill GV with his nuke? I will make it clear that i think its really iffy rn and we should wait because Reinhard's stuff is probably gonna get way more abstract in nature
Click to expand...
H u h. Well keep in mind GVs Regen is good enough to regen him from all of his history and possible histories being erased. His nuke is gonna have to be good enough to do all of those things listed and more
SatellaTheWoE said:
not sure if i did or not but anyways, Reinhard directly resists multiple layers of Madness hax so it shouldnt effect him in anyway unless its 4D which would bypass that
Click to expand...
I'm gonna shoot for 4D but idk how it'll go. If u don't recall basically I said there's a couple ways you can interpret how many layers Dragon Radiation has and then u were like "sleep manip then" and when I countered that u were like "dang stomp"
SatellaTheWoE said:
if his honest to god better way of winning is a knockout blow then his GI would probably tell him to do that...
Click to expand...
I agree, I meant this as in when Reinhard is berserk (if he is)
SatellaTheWoE said:
makes sense, Reinhard has his own possible haxes that he refuses to use due to CiS
good thing the transmutation is 4D cause Reinhard resists it as well 🗿
Click to expand...
Why does bro have to wait until now man maybe if I say it's macro quantum matter manip

That was like one of the main reasons you said this would be a stomp in GVs favor what happened
SatellaTheWoE said:
i get you but also its kind of frustrating when people mention abilities that you cant really confirm if they exist or not which is why the standard exists in the first place
this website has enough wanking already without that lmao
Click to expand...
it's tough man


At this rate this is an incon now lol


The GV Inconning saga continues
 
Smashtwig said:
While I agree that some of this feels a little cap, I'm also using arguments not currently accepted in CRTs too because of this matchs horrible timing (not that they matter now as the arguments that actually work don't rely on those anymore)
Click to expand...
You may as well not do that, since the stuff might not be 4D, and probally gonna take years to get accepted anyway.
 
Smashtwig said:
I
prefer keeping it anyways , there's no point in this match if the CRT is gonna delete it. I'll keep this argument so that way



Ah, I see why this can be a contentious thing, it's "partially" a dimension so Rein could just be hitting the part that isn't a dimension too



But for sake of simplicity I'll just say Rein can hit 4D structures. I'm still doubtful about the whole thing him discovering an entirely new subatomic particle because he needs to, just because he can answer tests intuitively (which at least have documentated answers), just by seeing light holograms



All of that including the fact that Prevasion can defend from a multiversal attack instead of a universal one like what seems to be the case with Od L.



In addition, GV can mix up the type of Prevasion he can do. He can transform into electrons, radio waves, EM Waves, electronic data, electricity on its own etc. And Rein would have to adapt to each one before GV tries a transmutation or a more likely two new arguments I just came up with



Let's hypothetically say that Reinhard sees GV just standing there and somehow figures out by him just standing there that he can turn into all those specific types of things with Prevasion and also that he can see the High G Regen so he needs to knock him out, just by GV standing there- and he does it
Click to expand...
Reinhard gets a perception boost relative to Cecilus's who went from MH+ to MFTL so to him the battle would be frozen, pretty sure that is enough time for him to analyse. It should also be enough to go through his whole slew of thought based haxes if he wants to but they would probably not work unfortunately
Smashtwig said:
Lumen (whose with GV 24/7, and is part of his powerset) has a history of bringing back GV when he's going or about to go unconscious , she can just activate Anthem right there and GV will be back up on his feet. From there, GV can do an actually very likely move which is use his Class P Electromagnetism (might be 4D since it can control another magnetism ability that has 4D stuff) to trap Rein in this massive EM Field and crush or tear Rein (only Class T) pretty much instantly- the range would be big enough to bypass any skill gap. In fact GV can do this right off the gate. Even if Rein survives for a moment teleports out, GV has a Passive EM Field around him at all times, and since Rein is a Melee fighter, he'll be caught again. And if Rein goes ranged, GV can teleport of the way of ranged attacks back into close range (or long range if he wants to), up until GV goes Primal Dragon and the radiation takes effect
Click to expand...
that is fine and all but he can just respawn...
Reinhard also isnt exactly a "melee" fighter (look at his range section)
Smashtwig said:
The second option is more unlikely than the Transmutation, but it's worth mentioning. Lumen's mind manipulation can be interpreted to be even better than the Dragon Radiation





I should also mention it's not specified how long GV takes to become a full Primal Dragon. It could be long enough for GV to do the above I just mentioned but also enough time for Rein to figure him out, or it could be short/instant enough for Primal Dragon GV to come out before Rein can figure out he needs to knock the dude out before he instantly goes berserk kill mode from the radiation
Click to expand...
Smashtwig said:
Bro is cheating the system

How many again? 2 if I recall?
Click to expand...
its a complete resistance to +1 layers and a limited resistance to +2 (he can resist it for a bit before being overpowered)
Smashtwig said:
H u h. Well keep in mind GVs Regen is good enough to regen him from all of his history and possible histories being erased. His nuke is gonna have to be good enough to do all of those things listed and more
Click to expand...
if we are talking about Od Laguna destruction feat then we can also talk about how it wills the entire world into existence including all of the past,present and future along with having a library filled with basically the knowledge of everything about everyone so if he defeats it then those would also get erased along with him
you can either take it as him erasing the past,present and future or simply it being the consequences of the erasure, either way history gets destroyed
Smashtwig said:
I'm gonna shoot for 4D but idk how it'll go. If u don't recall basically I said there's a couple ways you can interpret how many layers Dragon Radiation has and then u were like "sleep manip then" and when I countered that u were like "dang stomp"
Click to expand...
i thought we were done with the mind manip arguement due to him resisting it and then asked if Reinhard had a way to actually stop him because killing him was not a viable option
Smashtwig said:
I agree, I meant this as in when Reinhard is berserk (if he is)
Click to expand...
i dont know what the layers are nor do i have the authority to judge using the wikis standarsd so i cant say anything besides the fact that currently Reinhard has more layers
Smashtwig said:
Why does bro have to wait until now man maybe if I say it's macro quantum matter manip

That was like one of the main reasons you said this would be a stomp in GVs favor what happened
Click to expand...
just look at Reinhard's resistance page, the fact that a lot of it is from multiple other characters and that i am busy with exams. yeah i can forget a thing or two 😭
Smashtwig said:
it's tough man


At this rate this is an incon now lol


The GV Inconning saga continues
Click to expand...
Perhaps 💔
 
Fezzih_007 said:
You may as well not do that, since the stuff might not be 4D, and probally gonna take years to get accepted anyway.
Click to expand...
Yeah I’m just gonna assume no 4D for the madness
SatellaTheWoE said:
Reinhard gets a perception boost relative to Cecilus's who went from MH+ to MFTL so to him the battle would be frozen, pretty sure that is enough time for him to analyse. It should also be enough to go through his whole slew of thought based haxes if he wants to but they would probably not work unfortunately
Click to expand...
(Looks at his speed section and sees barely >1c)

Wut bro. This intuition just be passive or smth now how is bro thinking that he needs all of these things the instant he sees a yellow spiky hair dude man. He didn’t even see the problem yet like on the social studies exam he has last week
SatellaTheWoE said:
that is fine and all but he can just respawn...

Reinhard also isnt exactly a "melee" fighter (look at his range section)
Click to expand...
Oh… I uh… I kinda forgot about that. But it does mean that he kinda like… can’t move. To do anything that isn’t thought based wouldn’t be very possible and anything that is thought based, as you said, probs won’t work.
SatellaTheWoE said:
its a complete resistance to +1 layers and a limited resistance to +2 (he can resist it for a bit before being overpowered)
Click to expand...
So 2 Layers total including the limited

GV’s is also at least 2 Layers, (Brainwashing < Primal Dragon < GV Primal Dragon, each superior to the last in quality rather than magnitude)- though it may also scale off of Glaives that seal up Dragon Radiation (but that’s the 4D argument that I don’t wanna use for now until it’s accepted

So I guess he’ll eventually be overpowered
SatellaTheWoE said:
if we are talking about Od Laguna destruction feat then we can also talk about how it wills the entire world into existence including all of the past,present and future along with having a library filled with basically the knowledge of everything about everyone so if he defeats it then those would also get erased along with him
you can either take it as him erasing the past,present and future or simply it being the consequences of the erasure, either way history gets destroyed
Click to expand...
Perhaps one history, there’s also the infinite other histories he has to erase, and GV regens from all of them being erased, so that’s off the table
SatellaTheWoE said:
i thought we were done with the mind manip arguement due to him resisting it and then asked if Reinhard had a way to actually stop him because killing him was not a viable option
Click to expand...
Oh I didn’t know that’s how u were interpreting the situation, my fault.
SatellaTheWoE said:
i dont know what the layers are nor do i have the authority to judge using the wikis standarsd so i cant say anything besides the fact that currently Reinhard has more layers
Click to expand...
Yeah the whole situation depends on this madness stuff
SatellaTheWoE said:
just look at Reinhard's resistance page, the fact that a lot of it is from multiple other characters and that i am busy with exams. yeah i can forget a thing or two 😭
Click to expand...
Bro that thing hecka lacking I don’t see any 4D Transmutation anywhere (yes before people ask that’s already on the page), I don’t see em layer- bro fix IT AAAA. Or the new 4D Mind Manip argument I have (that’s not on the page)
SatellaTheWoE said:
Perhaps 💔
Click to expand...
I’ll keep trying for now
SatellaTheWoE said:
this is so wanky even i am unsure of what to say anymore 🗿
Click to expand...
I’m might go back to basics and reset to zero later on.
 
EL_xWatcher1234x said:
Scan?
Click to expand...
you might as well stop now because we are talking about 4D reinhard here ☠️
its in his named chapter though, i am too lazy to pull up the entire scan but you just need to read his profile, the feat is from his kid version being able to view light 100x slower/at a snails pace
Fezzih_007 said:
But Cecilus is faster than Reinhard, so i don't think he scale.
Click to expand...
not accepted on the wiki yet (zab hates losing)
He would still downscale

Smashtwig said:
Yeah I’m just gonna assume no 4D for the madness

(Looks at his speed section and sees barely >1c)
Click to expand...
severely outdated + nobody is ready to calc the cecilus shit (he went full on schizo in that chapter)

Smashtwig said:
Wut bro. This intuition just be passive or smth now how is bro thinking that he needs all of these things the instant he sees a yellow spiky hair dude man. He didn’t even see the problem yet like on the social studies exam he has last week
Click to expand...
that is his perception boost, so he will be viewing people relative to him basically being frozen. It is not his actual physical speed (he still gets an blitz amp in life or death situations though)
Smashtwig said:
Oh… I uh… I kinda forgot about that. But it does mean that he kinda like… can’t move. To do anything that isn’t thought based wouldn’t be very possible and anything that is thought based, as you said, probs won’t work.

So 2 Layers total including the limited


GV’s is also at least 2 Layers, (Brainwashing < Primal Dragon < GV Primal Dragon, each superior to the last in quality rather than magnitude)- though it may also scale off of Glaives that seal up Dragon Radiation (but that’s the 4D argument that I don’t wanna use for now until it’s accepted

So I guess he’ll eventually be overpowered
Click to expand...
layers work like this
an abiltiy A<Someone who resists it<ability A+ being able to affect someone who resists it (+1 layer)< Someone resisting ability A+<Ability A++(+2 layer)< someone resisting ability A++ (+2 layer resistance)

Idk if anybody resisted that ability, if they didnt then it would be just upscaling and not a full layer and if they did it would be +1
Smashtwig said:
Perhaps one history, there’s also the infinite other histories he has to erase, and GV regens from all of them being erased, so that’s off the table
Click to expand...
yeah Reinhard isnt killing him then (wait till you hear about the tier 1 scaling next)
Edit: dont Zab will kill me
Smashtwig said:
Oh I didn’t know that’s how u were interpreting the situation, my fault.

Yeah the whole situation depends on this madness stuff

Bro that thing hecka lacking I don’t see any 4D Transmutation anywhere (yes before people ask that’s already on the page), I don’t see em layer- bro fix IT AAAA. Or the new 4D Mind Manip argument I have (that’s not on the page)
Click to expand...
he resists normal transmuation not 4D
(unless time based transmutation is 4D-)
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
you might as well stop now because we are talking about 4D reinhard here ☠️
its in his named chapter though, i am too lazy to pull up the entire scan but you just need to read his profile, the feat is from his kid version being able to view light 100x slower/at a snails pace
Click to expand...
B r o
SatellaTheWoE said:
not accepted on the wiki yet (zab hates losing)
He would still downscale
Click to expand...
Idk who zab is but if this is what a Zab-less debate I don’t wanna imagine what one involving Zab would be like
SatellaTheWoE said:
severely outdated + nobody is ready to calc the cecilus shit (he went full on schizo in that chapter)
Click to expand...
B r u h
SatellaTheWoE said:
that is his perception boost, so he will be viewing people relative to him basically being frozen. It is not his actual physical speed (he still gets an blitz amp in life or death situations though)
Click to expand...
How does bro see em as frozen and still can’t keep up tf
SatellaTheWoE said:
layers work like this
an abiltiy A<Someone who resists it<ability A+ being able to affect someone who resists it (+1 layer)< Someone resisting ability A+<Ability A++(+2 layer)< someone resisting ability A++ (+2 layer resistance)

Idk if anybody resisted that ability, if they didnt then it would be just upscaling and not a full layer and if they did it would be +1
Click to expand...
I’ll look into it later, I know that there’s at least one later in there because Brainwashing was resisted, then surpassed by Primal Dragon Radiation, from that to GV Radiation, idk right now- (but the 4D might come anyways)
SatellaTheWoE said:
yeah Reinhard isnt killing him then (wait till you hear about the tier 1 scaling next)

Edit: dont Zab will kill me
Click to expand...
Honestly I hope so that way I can avoid this chaos bro
SatellaTheWoE said:
he resists normal transmuation not 4D
(unless time based transmutation is 4D-)
Click to expand...
Bruh u confusing me wtf is TIME BASED TRANSMUTATION does bro turn into time or something

smh bro is mixing me going back and forth
CurrySenpai said:
What are the arguments here??
Click to expand...
I’m gonna redo everything with all the new information I have now, right now the only guarantee way GV wins is via thought based instant Transmutation (4D, but may be out of character, though people say according to SBA it should at least be done at some point), EM Field Class P holding the guy stuff, and passive madness aura that is on the table whether or not it can be resisted (until it’s 4D CRT comes)

On the other hand, Rein cannot kill GV ever, he has to figure out he needs to knock him out while hitting 4D Electrons/EM Waves/Data all at the same time
 
Phsccarvalho said:
I'm talking about Gunvolt.
Click to expand...
Wait so from now on I specifically have to go through that one thread? Why can't I just justify it here or better yet just make a CRT on it? A singular thread seems very disorganizing. GV in general is getting an overhaul and getting new things for layers (rejustifications / removals) anyways, so why should it be in a thread where past layer stuff is being mentioned

Either way, the amount of layers for the madness manipulation is not sufficient enough after much thought, GV is just gonna have to do the 4D Transmutate instead
 
Last edited:
Smashtwig said:
Wait so from now on I specifically have to go through that one thread? Why can't I just justify it here or better yet just make a CRT on it? A singular thread seems very disorganizing. GV in general is getting an overhaul and getting new things for layers anyways, so why should it be in a thread where past layer stuff is being mentioned
Click to expand...
All layers that were made before that thread existed in any version must be reanalyzed in that thread.

New layers can be created in normal CRTs, only the previous ones have to go through the existence of that topic.

You can probably make a new crt to reaccept everything.

But until that happens, the layers are unusable, since it looks like this character received the layers before that topic existed.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
All layers that were made before that thread existed in any version must be reanalyzed in that thread.
Click to expand...
...says an actual administrator? Because uh... it looks like that was just made by a normal member who wanted to organize everything
Phsccarvalho said:
New layers can be created in normal CRTs, only the previous ones have to go through the existence of that topic.

You can probably make a new crt to reaccept everything.
Click to expand...
Oki, that's a lot of extra work but I gotta do it
Phsccarvalho said:
But until that happens, the layers are unusable, since it looks like this character received the layers before that topic existed.
Click to expand...
Bet. Not like they were gonna help in this matchup lol
 
Phsccarvalho said:
That's why Glass, a topic moderator, is currently managing the topic, approving and disapproving.
Click to expand...
Oh coo, I would rather re-accept it in a new CRT because that seems very chaotic. So I’ll just argue with no layers


In the meantime, I guess this debate can continue without it, but it mostly comes down to what we’ve been saying before. Reinhard can’t kill GV, and GV’s insta win button may come into play before Reinhard can figure out what to do- and Prevasion is broken af

And honestly I don’t think any of us wanna continue it for today
 
Smashtwig said:
Oh coo, I would rather re-accept it in a new CRT because that seems very chaotic. So I’ll just argue with no layers


In the meantime, I guess this debate can continue without it, but it mostly comes down to what we’ve been saying before. Reinhard can’t kill GV, and GV’s insta win button may come into play before Reinhard can figure out what to do- and Prevasion is broken af

And honestly I don’t think any of us wanna continue it for today
Click to expand...
I personally think Reinhard along with his GI + 100s to 1000s of time perception boost can probably figure out the knocking him out part before GV can pull out any of his actual wincons and Reinhard still has a couple of ways to handle most of his wincons to some degree as well (aside from the 4D Transmutation)
He probably takes this mid to high diff
Voting reinhard
 
SatellaTheWoE said:
I personally think Reinhard along with his GI + 100s to 1000s of time perception boost can probably figure out the knocking him out part before GV can pull out any of his actual wincons and Reinhard still has a couple of ways to handle most of his wincons to some degree as well (aside from the 4D Transmutation)
He probably takes this mid to high diff
Voting reinhard
Click to expand...
Now that GVs Madness is not around (for the time being) I'd say that went and dropped his chances of winning lower. But also he still has a 4D Mind Manip in the form of Lumen

Then there's also the whole mad GV form that can be awakened by Lumen when he does go unconscious, and become more likely to do the transmutation, and the EM Class P Crush to stop him from moving

Plus, Prevasion is 4D- and a much better one than Od (multiversal vs universal if I understand it correctly), so it may just take effect and Rein would have to wait for Primal Dragonization so Prevasion isnt a thing to worry about

Also I again worry about the whole "this match doesnt matter if a CRT gets rid of it next week", so imma gonna do that ASAP and to stall out for time ill just go "ur 4D aiNt On dAh PAge yET"
 
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