DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)

[ALEPHGOAT]

Truly the final boss of obnoxiousness.

You can call me the Kaiser Ephes of obnoxiousness.

People really think they are tough just because they use ChatGPT.

You're a powerscaler, you don't get to speak about toughness. We are all losers here.

Thats not based at all, its one thing you dont agree on where a character is, but what most do is ignore these and come up with made up shit against it, facebook still lurks with the same idiots from 1 decade ago thinking Goku isnt even universal and thinking Superman destroying planets and such wins him debates on characters not cosmic deities or such

Every argument for universal Kratos has been debunked. The arguments against universal Kratos also aren't debunkable because they just cite the actual
If you want to refute this point, how about we go to DMs and talk about it.

With nearly 1 century of material, some characters will have a bunch of content for it, especially from dozens to hundreds of writers

None of this matters if your authors don't know math or philosophy. DC and Marvel don't get past 3-A because they **** up infinity, they **** up transfinites, they **** up dimensional tiering, they **** up R>F, they **** up abstracts. They can't keep consistent power levels and have the massive anti-feat that their heroes can't solve things like world hunger, etc. No, I don't give a damn about author intent, the fact remains that these superpowered beings can't solve world hunger or stop all wars, ergo they either
1. Can't use their power (Stupid)
2. Don't want to use their power (Evil)
3. Don't have the power in the first place (Weak)
If you want to get those verses above the level of finite physical power, with no abstract hax, and finite physical speed (all very inconsistent) then you'd have to perform a logical contradiction + ignoring the evidence of the many, many infinite/abstract/1-A/old 1-A/dimensional tiering/transfinite anti-feats. So in other words not a position anyone who knows logic and what not can actually hold in earnest, unless they hold it is explicitly not true.

If your issue is Persona scaling out of SMT, well too bad, like it or not, its a case of if a character is the same across both mediums, cross scaling will exist, much like how Soul Eater and Fire Force are clearly meant to be the same characters in both, which in turn may change scaling

Well there's no truth in powerscaling so I assert that no, Persona does not scale to SMT.

Show a solar system that Cell blew up in canon visually, still using this dumb "show me a visual of that or piss off" type argument

I can and have made a credible argument for a Bolo soloing DB, Saint Seiya, and other unquantifable works. The point wasn't 'HAHA BOLO AWESOME ANIME SUCKS' but rather 'VS debating requires you to add 1000 rules just to get Dragon Ball to be debatable'.
You can make a perfectly consistent ruleset with the axiom that every single feat of power has to be shown on screen, and statements, lore, etc, do not count. You can do the reverse. Which is right? Honestly none are right. Which is the entire point here. If it's all bullshit then there's no right or wrong answer. Under this ruleset, X character beats Y character, in others, it's the opposite, in others, neither are usable, in still others, it's a tie. If there's a truth to 'rebunk' or 'debunk' then, well, the Tour De Force is pretty much the one thing every powerscaler should read and reference because I go into things like objective truth, subjectivity and objectivity, etc.

Creating a universe or merging more with your own power is more then enough, you dont need to destroy something to be at that level, quit outdated mentality

Dante is not universal because the lore doesn't say what you think it says. You want universal/multiversal Dante? Use SMT Dante.

 

[JoshDoshMosh]

I mean, yeah, more or less.
Also something about their series having the same endings and sexual harrasment.

I get that but like, I was just saying for the meme

 

[TMaakkonen]

Wait I actually ticked off BlackDarkness? but I didnt even slander fighting games

Point kinda was, that if one were to be critical of Kratos' stats, I feel like all the other stuff are just as if not more justified to be more criticized, but core DB fans in Forums ignore these for others and I keep disliking Kratos specifically.

Yes, we also have gone over why these things might be ok in some cases as BD pointed out, but in despite of this Kratos lore slander continues.

I do find it cosmically delicious that Kratos debunks keep using Twitter as well. The ******* irony lol

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

Wait I actually ticked off BlackDarkness? but I didnt even slander fighting games

Point kinda was, that if one were to be critical of Kratos' stats, I feel like all the other stuff are just as if not more justified to be more criticized, but core DB fans in Forums ignore these for others and I keep disliking Kratos specifically.

Kratos has the problem in that his lore doesn't say what needs to be said. If his lore matched up to the wank, I would have no problem. Actually I do have a problem with most powerscalers in that they make poor arguments and don't know what falsification is while arguing that their hobby is objective. That really pisses me off.
Also the episode was shit, so.

Yes, we also have gone over why these things might be ok in some cases as BD pointed out, but in despite of this Kratos lore slander continues.

I do find it cosmically delicious that Kratos debunks keep using Twitter as well. The ******* irony lol

MAY KRATOS LORE SLANDER CONTINUE FOREVER
MAY IT CONTINUE UNTIL THE LAST STARS GO DARK AND THE UNIVERSE GROWS COLD
AND AT THE LAST DAY OF THE COSMOS THE GOD OF WAR DISCS WILL TURN TO DUST AND BE BLOWN AWAY IN THE NINE WINDS
LEAVING ONLY NOTHING; SUITABLE FOR THE FRAUDULENT GHOST OF SPARTA.

 

[TMaakkonen]

It doesn't matter how many posts you make. It doesn't matter how many irrelevant youtubers make debunking videos. Kratos won and there's nothing you can do that will ever change that.

 

[Kellex]

Bro's wrath could rival Kratos and Asura together.

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

It doesn't matter how many posts you make. It doesn't matter how many irrelevant youtubers make debunking videos. Kratos won and there's nothing you can do that will ever change that.

Kratos can only beat Asura in fanfiction sorry bro. MY fanfiction where Asura finger flicks Kratos and the shockwaves destroy Kratos' entire verse is CANON. God of War developers CONFIRMED it.
Also obligatory Death Battle is untrustworthy

Bro's wrath could rival Kratos and Asura together.

MY WRATH IS THE WRATH THAT WILL PIERCE THE HEAVENS!

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

You know what lol. I'm adding a section to the Tour De Force where I tackle the concept of Lore Feats.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

 Yapping

Can you stfu, not only you sound pathetic and annoying, but given your previous arguments you had here gives me mo interest to have any back and forth with individuals like you, speak to a wall for all I care

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

Can you stfu, not only you sound pathetic and annoying,

Imagine getting this hostile over powerscaling opinions. LMAOOO

but given your previous arguments you had here gives me mo interest to have any back and forth with individuals like you, speak to a wall for all I care

Concession accepted. Another W for the GOAT.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Wait I actually ticked off BlackDarkness? but I didnt even slander fighting games

You should know I enjoy more then just a single genre, else I wouldnt care talk other things if it was the case

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The discussion here needs to calm down a bit.


Can I ask both of you to lower the temperature here a bit? Please calm down?

Can you tell to this individual that you told earlier to drop this or better yet, just ban him with the rest of staff

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

Can you tell to this individual that you told earlier to drop this or better yet, just ban him with the rest of staff

When have I ever insulted other people? When have I ever done that? Let's see what I've done here.
1. Stated my position, made arguments to support it, and defended it.
2. Came here to ask for people to argue against my positions
3. Argued against positions I do not agree with
4. Joked.
I never insulted anyone. I never insulted any author. I only insult fictional characters.
Are you saying that what I did is ban worthy? Are you saying that disagreeing with SOMEONE OVER FICTIONAL DAD FIGHTS IS BAN WORTHY IN VSBW?

 

[Dust_Collector]

These last few pages show that you guys gotta get out more, go for a walk in the woods it's nice this time of year

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

These last few pages show that you guys gotta get out more, go for a walk in the woods it's nice this time of year

Would rather start World War 3.

 

[Random-Helper323]

You're a powerscaler, you don't get to speak about toughness. We are all losers here.

Well there's no truth in powerscaling

Please stop provoking people like this.

Can you stfu, not only you sound pathetic and annoying, but given your previous arguments you had here gives me mo interest to have any back and forth with individuals like you, speak to a wall for all I care

I'm going to have to ask you to try to calm down too, okay?

 

[AthelChan]

its time to be productive chat, economies falling everywhere. Secure some bags for your future generations

 

[Pepsimanslover]

You can call me the Kaiser Ephes of obnoxiousness.

You're a powerscaler, you don't get to speak about toughness. We are all losers here.

Every argument for universal Kratos has been debunked. The arguments against universal Kratos also aren't debunkable because they just cite the actual
If you want to refute this point, how about we go to DMs and talk about it.

None of this matters if your authors don't know math or philosophy. DC and Marvel don't get past 3-A because they ** up infinity, they ** up transfinites, they ** up dimensional tiering, they ** up R>F, they **** up abstracts. They can't keep consistent power levels and have the massive anti-feat that their heroes can't solve things like world hunger, etc. No, I don't give a damn about author intent, the fact remains that these superpowered beings can't solve world hunger or stop all wars, ergo they either
1. Can't use their power (Stupid)
2. Don't want to use their power (Evil)
3. Don't have the power in the first place (Weak)
If you want to get those verses above the level of finite physical power, with no abstract hax, and finite physical speed (all very inconsistent) then you'd have to perform a logical contradiction + ignoring the evidence of the many, many infinite/abstract/1-A/old 1-A/dimensional tiering/transfinite anti-feats. So in other words not a position anyone who knows logic and what not can actually hold in earnest, unless they hold it is explicitly not true.

Well there's no truth in powerscaling so I assert that no, Persona does not scale to SMT.

I can and have made a credible argument for a Bolo soloing DB, Saint Seiya, and other unquantifable works. The point wasn't 'HAHA BOLO AWESOME ANIME SUCKS' but rather 'VS debating requires you to add 1000 rules just to get Dragon Ball to be debatable'.
You can make a perfectly consistent ruleset with the axiom that every single feat of power has to be shown on screen, and statements, lore, etc, do not count. You can do the reverse. Which is right? Honestly none are right. Which is the entire point here. If it's all bullshit then there's no right or wrong answer. Under this ruleset, X character beats Y character, in others, it's the opposite, in others, neither are usable, in still others, it's a tie. If there's a truth to 'rebunk' or 'debunk' then, well, the Tour De Force is pretty much the one thing every powerscaler should read and reference because I go into things like objective truth, subjectivity and objectivity, etc.

Dante is not universal because the lore doesn't say what you think it says. You want universal/multiversal Dante? Use SMT Dante.

This isn’t how we handle discussion in this site. If you really believe Kratos is dodo piss water tier or Dante is gate level, then make a thread with the appropriate tags, arguments and argue there.

As for here, this thread is for chatting with others regarding death battle and the like, not screaming that X characters aren't X level.

And while I get you were expressing about Kratos vs Asura, screaming and berating others when they disagree with you on a fan fictional scaling hobby site is not how we conduct conversations nor is it how we express disagreements in even content revisions let alone general discussions.

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

This isn’t how we handle discussion in this site. If you really believe Kratos is dodo piss water tier or Dante is gate level, then make a thread with the appropriate tags, arguments and argue there.

CRTs and truth are not collerated. Consensus determines nothing other than consensus.

As for here, this thread is for chatting with others regarding death battle and the like, not screaming that X characters aren't X level.

idk man i think that's related to Death Battle.

And while I get you were expressing about Kratos vs Asura, screaming and berating others when they disagree with you on a fan fictional scaling hobby site is not how we conduct conversations nor is it how we express disagreements in even content revisions let alone general discussions.

never did this. I'm the one screamed at and berated in fact.

 

[Pepsimanslover]

CRTs and truth are not collerated.

Screaming your "truth" in people's face is impolite and not how proper conversations are ought to be handled.

idk man i think that's related to Death Battle

Express it normally. Not "EVERYTHING THEY TOLD YOU IS A LIE" click bait youtuber style. You could have just as easily said "Hey I don't really like this DB episode because I don't actually think Kratos is level because of this and this".

never did this. I'm the one screamed at and berated in fact.

Because you're being obnoxious. You're being annoying.

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

Screaming your "truth" in people's face is impolite and not how proper conversations are ought to be handled.

Never did this. I made a claim, I backed it up, whenever I see claims I disagree with I argue against them.

Express it normally. Not "EVERYTHING THEY TOLD YOU IS A LIE" click bait youtuber style. You could have just as easily said "Hey I don't really like this DB episode because I don't actually think Kratos is level because of this and this".

Never happened. I made hyperbolic jokes and linked to a document that backs up a position I agree with and refutes the opposite position.

Because you're being obnoxious. You're being annoying.

So this warrants personal insults over fictional dad fights. Very interesting.

 

[Antvasima]

You lose. Have a good day.

I'm not talking to him in DMs. He needs punishment for his bad behavior first.

This was more akin to me beating the shit out of this guy in a debate but sure.

Stop spamming and being rude please.

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

Stop spamming and being rude please.

If what I'm doing is rude---which I can accept because I tend to be very intense---I also ask that you say the same to everyone who insulted me here.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Stop spamming and being rude please.

Dont bother with him, he keeps doing the same thing he was told by Random not to do twice, better to just drop the hammer down on this

 

[Kellex]

This isn’t how we handle discussion in this site. If you really believe Kratos is dodo piss water tier or Dante is gate level, then make a thread with the appropriate tags, arguments and argue there.

As for here, this thread is for chatting with others regarding death battle and the like, not screaming that X characters aren't X level.

And while I get you were expressing about Kratos vs Asura, screaming and berating others when they disagree with you on a fan fictional scaling hobby site is not how we conduct conversations nor is it how we express disagreements in even content revisions let alone general discussions.

Don't feed the trolls or you'll be in for a toll.

 

[Antvasima]

If what I'm doing is rude---which I can accept because I tend to be very intense---I also ask that you say the same to everyone who insulted me here.

I was told that you have been rage-baiting people here.

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

Don't feed the trolls or you'll be in for a toll.

Stop accusing me of being a troll because you disagree with me.

I was told that you have been rage-baiting people here.

You are free to look through my history. Have I been rage baiting people? Am I purposefully provoking people to get a reaction? No. I disagree with them, explain why, and that's that. That is not what ragebait is.

Dont bother with him, he keeps doing the same thing he was told by Random not to do twice, better to just drop the hammer down on this

'Disagreeing with people over fictional dad fights should earn you a ban'
Wow. I explicitly said 'okay i won't do it (referring to being aggressive)' and then when someone said that I said something that I very much did not say---here's what I said.
'I didn't do those things and I don't think me being annoying is enough to warrant insults over fictional dad fights.'

 

[Random-Helper323]

Stop accusing me of being a troll because you disagree with me.

You are free to look through my history. Have I been rage baiting people? Am I purposefully provoking people to get a reaction? No. I disagree with them, explain why, and that's that. That is not what ragebait is.

'Disagreeing with people over fictional dad fights should earn you a ban'
Wow. I explicitly said 'okay i won't do it (referring to being aggressive)' and then when someone said that I said something that I very much did not say---here's what I said.
'I didn't do those things and I don't think me being annoying is enough to warrant insults over fictional dad fights.'

The tone and attitude you've brought here is very antagonistic. Dismissing the whole thing as dad fights and calling everyone losers is pretty rude as well.

 

[Kellex]

Stop accusing me of being a troll because you disagree with me.

Nice bait, but I haven't even shared a single disagreement with you yet lmao.

I was told that you have been rage-baiting people here.

Yes, they are 100% trying to provoke people despite being warned only a few hours ago.

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

The tone and attitude you've brought here is very antagonistic.

You know what. I will apologize. I am very direct and uncompromising. Sorry everyone.

Dismissing the whole thing as dad fights

It is dad fights. Powerscaling is stupid. The sooner you accept this the better.

and calling everyone losers is pretty rude as well.

I went too far on that one yeah.

Nice bait, but I haven't even shared a single disagreement with you yet lmao.

Then I apologize for accusing you of something you didn't express.

Yes, they are 100% trying to provoke people despite being warned only a few hours ago.

No.

 

[Random-Helper323]

It is dad fights. Powerscaling is stupid. The sooner you accept this the better.

This isn't a good attitude to bring to these discussions by any means.

 

[ALEPHGOAT]

This isn't a good attitude to bring to these discussions by any means.

Am I wrong? No powerscaler can make an entirely consistent system on how to powerscale without resorting to arbitrary rules that only exist to allow the discussion to happen. No powerscaler can determine who would actually win in a fight. That's what the authors can do, because fictional characters aren't real, they're just pixels/polygon/ink that makes you imagine a being.
I mean for all I've done in the Tour De Force I admit that either you accept my system as the end all be all with minor quibbles on the arbitrary rules like how to treat R>F crossverse (I treated it as range) or you just say it's one of many systems. The latter means no system is right or wrong, any system can produce any outcome, and any outcome is not right or wrong. And the latter is the actual answer because fictional characters aren't real.
Powerscaling IS fictional dad fights. That's all it can be. I'm not saying that the hobby is bad and has no worth, I'm saying that it's fundamentally no different from playground fights, only with tonnes upon tonnes of extra baggage. Or like chess. Chess players shouldn't mistake the rules of chess for how war actually works, or that the game pieces have any innate ability. They don't and they shouldn't!
EDIT: Why do you think I said that Ultraman should beat Ultima. Ultima is baseline 1-A at a lowball, and really just infinite layers into 1-A with The Evil being High 1-A (using CitrusReality's arguments). But I don't care about that. What matters is that Ultraman is the guy who beats giant monsters, and Godzilla...is a giant monster.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Am I wrong? No powerscaler can make an entirely consistent system on how to powerscale without resorting to arbitrary rules that only exist to allow the discussion to happen.

This sounds like a fundamental disagreement with the entire Tiering System and structure. In fact it sounds like you dislike indexing in and of itself.

EDIT: Why do you think I said that Ultraman should beat Ultima. Ultima is baseline 1-A at a lowball, and really just infinite layers into 1-A with The Evil being High 1-A (using CitrusReality's arguments). But I don't care about that. What matters is that Ultraman is the guy who beats giant monsters, and Godzilla...is a giant monster.

This logic can't be used by literally any indexing site or any such things in any capacity. You're referring to how the writers might choose to utilise the characters, and how you theorize they'd portray it. The purpose of indexing sites is to look at the things the character has done in the story and assign values based on them, not to speculate on how writers would treat them if they had a crossover with brand restrictions.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I go to sleep and wake up and this shit is still going on...

It is the Death Battle Discussion thread. If you don't like someone, tune 'em out. Yeah there's a tonal problem here but legitimately, if someone is being pissy after being warned just take it to RVR or quote the mod who warned them in the first place, don't feed into it or talk to someone you know is gonna piss you off.

Example: Me and BlackDarkness679 get along like oil and water so we mostly ignore eachother.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I come here offering steak.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I come here offering steak.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I come here offering steak.

Cook them to a crisp till there is no life left

 

[OrangeFR]

We are all losers here.

This is lowkenuinely true

 

[Tipper17]

 

[Bigdongus]

Wait I actually ticked off BlackDarkness? but I didnt even slander fighting games

Point kinda was, that if one were to be critical of Kratos' stats, I feel like all the other stuff are just as if not more justified to be more criticized, but core DB fans in Forums ignore these for others and I keep disliking Kratos specifically.

Yes, we also have gone over why these things might be ok in some cases as BD pointed out, but in despite of this Kratos lore slander continues.

I do find it cosmically delicious that Kratos debunks keep using Twitter as well. The ******* irony lol

The truth nuke is every verse should be nerfed but no one is ready for that conversation since that would include their favorites.