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DEATH BATTLE! Discussion Thread (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
- Thread starter TMaakkonen
- Start date
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they put dc lower than vsbw, massive surprise lmao
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An anime, a cartoon and a video game, what could be next?
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a TV character like Star Trek? Idk.
koopa3144
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Afaik, tracks tend to drop on audio platforms a day or so after the ep releases.
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So, Wile E. Coyote vs Tom Cat
Tom got confirmed to be a Looney Tune recently, right? So now he's effected by Wile E.'s anti-looney formula (Assuming that Tom doesn't end up turning it against them or both of them ending up getting hit by it)
Tom got confirmed to be a Looney Tune recently, right? So now he's effected by Wile E.'s anti-looney formula (Assuming that Tom doesn't end up turning it against them or both of them ending up getting hit by it)
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My alley rat boi lost oof. Oh well. 
Episode was really good, score was neat, the animation was really fun and I love the use of SFX effects from Kyle, and the use of constructs are much better here than Ben Vs Hal. Love that they did the clash like I hoped they will
I like that they were able to skim down most of the fancy cosmological stuff in a pretty convincing way, and I think the verdict was pretty alright and sensible overall.
Two things I didn't like besides the weird scaling for base GL Kyle. The first half of the fight and its escalation is disappointingly short. While the fight escalation moreorless went how I expected it to, the lack of AGL and SGGL and just how quickly Simon went from GL to TTGL really bugs me. Second half was fire though.
Also the track is good but NGL, I kinda like will of the drill more. Maybe it'll get better upon re-listening.
Those two elements kinda bring it down to an 8.5/10 for me, but still very good episode and one of the stronger ones this season.
Episode was really good, score was neat, the animation was really fun and I love the use of SFX effects from Kyle, and the use of constructs are much better here than Ben Vs Hal. Love that they did the clash like I hoped they will
I like that they were able to skim down most of the fancy cosmological stuff in a pretty convincing way, and I think the verdict was pretty alright and sensible overall.
Two things I didn't like besides the weird scaling for base GL Kyle. The first half of the fight and its escalation is disappointingly short. While the fight escalation moreorless went how I expected it to, the lack of AGL and SGGL and just how quickly Simon went from GL to TTGL really bugs me. Second half was fire though.
Also the track is good but NGL, I kinda like will of the drill more. Maybe it'll get better upon re-listening.
Those two elements kinda bring it down to an 8.5/10 for me, but still very good episode and one of the stronger ones this season.
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nah it'll do better, not as good as po vs aang would have been but since theres a new ATLA movie and genshin is still the most popular gacha game save for maybe ZZZ rn (yk why)
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Also man, idgaf about that next MU at all 
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Hope you realize they said Spongebob beats mainline Aquaman too, meanwhile characters like Joker, Black Canary and maybe more have won against characters that should have beaten them in reality, Jinx beat someone clearly in similar case without being robbed
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Okay, here is the logic Death Battle used and how I interpret it:
Dimensional tiering is effectively from how many cross-sectional directions do your attacks hit. When you're infinite, that is basically an xℝ number of attacks. It is fundamentally a spatial thing, if you are 3-D or 11-D or 12.333-D or 26-D or infinite-D, you are still a spatial entity. The gap between each dimensional level isn't some ontologically superior jump each time, it's consistently a xℝ jump.
That's why it's not a NLF from that if Simon can surpass Kyle on a dimensional level. He jumped from 4-D to 11-D with no issue. Going up higher dimensions is a qualitative jump, but it's principally the same jump from 4-D to 5-D to 6-D onwards. It's just another xℝ jump, which Simon has shown he can do an arbitrary number of. This means it isn't a no limits fallacy. What would be a no limits fallacy is to suggest because Simon can jump higher dimensional infinities (xℝ) he can do the same jumps on meta outerversal levels. This matters as I will discuss below.
Furthermore, being higher dimensional is still being spatial as I mentioned so the fact that Simon can regenerate on an informational level won't be dettered jus because a being is higher dimensional. This means Simon can be utterly obliterated, regenerate back, and just absorb energy to reach that higher dimensional level. To actually destroy Simon you'd have to attack him on a conceptual level, which is hard when his concept and essence is within a self-controlled space outside of all of space and time entirely (The Super Spiral Realm transcends time, space, and dimension). Added with the CD Drama, and there's enough circumstantial evidence in Death Battle's opinion to consider the Super Spiral Realm its own outerversal powersource, basically Simon's own personal Godsphere.
Kyle with the Life Equation is dangerous, but frankly a lot of its most dangerous hax is things I agree with G1 and DB Simon has counters for. He can resist being unmade, he has total control over his emotions much like the White Lantern does, the reality warping amounts to things the Anti-Spiral itself did. Basically if stats were equalled, the Life Equation's haxes aren't actually THAT definitive against Simon.
The main crux of the fight then is where you scale Kyle with the Life Equation in terms of cosmology. Death Battle went for the lower intepretation of it being Godsphere level. There are those who think it should be Source level. I personally think even if the LE at its full force is Source level, Kyle never reached that level of mastery. The most he did amounts to maybe Godsphere level, if that. If you go by that interpretation, the fight basically goes like one would expect, Simon grows infinitely more powerful as STTGL and is able to overcome the more volatile Life Equation. However if you say Kyle does scale to the full Source, then Kyle should win. Even if Simon is able to jump higher dimensional infinities through his absorption and regenerate from higher dimensional damage, it would still be a no limits fallacy to suggest he can do the same with outerversal layers. Simon had never shown the ability to transcend metafictional layers, let alone to the level the Source would be at.
So basically if you scale LE Kyle to the Godsphere, Simon winning isn't too insane, if you scale LE Kyle to the Source, then Kyle should utterly trounce.
Still GOATed battle.
Dimensional tiering is effectively from how many cross-sectional directions do your attacks hit. When you're infinite, that is basically an xℝ number of attacks. It is fundamentally a spatial thing, if you are 3-D or 11-D or 12.333-D or 26-D or infinite-D, you are still a spatial entity. The gap between each dimensional level isn't some ontologically superior jump each time, it's consistently a xℝ jump.
That's why it's not a NLF from that if Simon can surpass Kyle on a dimensional level. He jumped from 4-D to 11-D with no issue. Going up higher dimensions is a qualitative jump, but it's principally the same jump from 4-D to 5-D to 6-D onwards. It's just another xℝ jump, which Simon has shown he can do an arbitrary number of. This means it isn't a no limits fallacy. What would be a no limits fallacy is to suggest because Simon can jump higher dimensional infinities (xℝ) he can do the same jumps on meta outerversal levels. This matters as I will discuss below.
Furthermore, being higher dimensional is still being spatial as I mentioned so the fact that Simon can regenerate on an informational level won't be dettered jus because a being is higher dimensional. This means Simon can be utterly obliterated, regenerate back, and just absorb energy to reach that higher dimensional level. To actually destroy Simon you'd have to attack him on a conceptual level, which is hard when his concept and essence is within a self-controlled space outside of all of space and time entirely (The Super Spiral Realm transcends time, space, and dimension). Added with the CD Drama, and there's enough circumstantial evidence in Death Battle's opinion to consider the Super Spiral Realm its own outerversal powersource, basically Simon's own personal Godsphere.
Kyle with the Life Equation is dangerous, but frankly a lot of its most dangerous hax is things I agree with G1 and DB Simon has counters for. He can resist being unmade, he has total control over his emotions much like the White Lantern does, the reality warping amounts to things the Anti-Spiral itself did. Basically if stats were equalled, the Life Equation's haxes aren't actually THAT definitive against Simon.
The main crux of the fight then is where you scale Kyle with the Life Equation in terms of cosmology. Death Battle went for the lower intepretation of it being Godsphere level. There are those who think it should be Source level. I personally think even if the LE at its full force is Source level, Kyle never reached that level of mastery. The most he did amounts to maybe Godsphere level, if that. If you go by that interpretation, the fight basically goes like one would expect, Simon grows infinitely more powerful as STTGL and is able to overcome the more volatile Life Equation. However if you say Kyle does scale to the full Source, then Kyle should win. Even if Simon is able to jump higher dimensional infinities through his absorption and regenerate from higher dimensional damage, it would still be a no limits fallacy to suggest he can do the same with outerversal layers. Simon had never shown the ability to transcend metafictional layers, let alone to the level the Source would be at.
So basically if you scale LE Kyle to the Godsphere, Simon winning isn't too insane, if you scale LE Kyle to the Source, then Kyle should utterly trounce.
Still GOATed battle.
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Same. No offense to people who are excited for it, but I'm gonna sit this one out.Also man, idgaf about that next MU at all
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Netflix made a 1 hour movie out of both franchises crossing over, but it was underwhelming as f*ck and a little too Baki biased (not surprising, its same studio whomst animates it)
koopa3144
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I've heard the anti-looney formula doesn't null toon force, it just prevents toons from regenerating their bodies.
ZeNoviceArtist
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It's only happening because Scourage happened.Also man, idgaf about that next MU at all
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I think I might have an answer to this. Someone made a pretty comprehensive blog about Tom vs Wile and while Tom is canonically considered a Toon, his DNA is wired differently from ordinary Toons or something equivalent like that, so the OP argued that Tom most likely wouldn't be effected by Wile's anti looney shenanigans.
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Also kinda bummed down they skipped out on Ion but leaving that one out ain't too bad NGL. Not as egregious as leaving AGL and SGGL imo.
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MCU levels of washed
Goddamnit
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Wild that vsbw is disagreeing with the episode considering that this was the site that had the infamous 11D dc cap lol
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Speaking of speed feats, Invisible dragon on Death Battle when?
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Wow, that didn't take too long.
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well something worse than the debunk is the ******* AUDIO MY EARS
CCMBROTTERFN
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Simon the Digger (DEATH BATTLE!)
Simon the Digger is a DEATH BATTLE Combatant from Season 25’ where he fights Kyle Rayner, the White Lantern from DC. Tier: 10-B, up to 3-A with Spiral Power | 9-A in Gurren Lagann, 3-B in Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, 3-A as Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann Key: Base | Gurren Lagann Mechs Name...
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it needs improvements, but it is going good.Simon the Digger (DEATH BATTLE!)
Simon the Digger is a DEATH BATTLE Combatant from Season 25’ where he fights Kyle Rayner, the White Lantern from DC. Tier: 10-B, up to 3-A with Spiral Power | 9-A in Gurren Lagann, 3-B in Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, 3-A as Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann Key: Base | Gurren Lagann Mechs Name...alt-battles.fandom.com
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Also some of the WL Kyle scaling is questionable. While I do think WL Kyle surpasses base Anti-Monitor, I disagree with WL Kyle surpassing Modern Hal. Considering Parallax Sinestro singlehandedly stood a better chance against Volthoom than WL Kyle and a bunch of other lanterns did. And Hal at his peak was capable of going toe to toe with a Parallax Sinestro with a 100x amp.
Not only that, Kyle has only ever fought a weakened Parallax. Every time the two have fought when Parallax wasn't weakened, it went poorly for Kyle.
Also the skipping of Ion is just so
Not only that, Kyle has only ever fought a weakened Parallax. Every time the two have fought when Parallax wasn't weakened, it went poorly for Kyle.
Also the skipping of Ion is just so
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And also, if you just look at both lowball or highball baki just kinda wins
koopa3144
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Does my argument for why Simon likely could or could not win concise enough? Basically boils down to how powerful the LE is, if it's Godsphere level or Source level.
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will that matter considering that Simon basically broke the source wall?
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Tbf, it’s unlikely Dio would’ve helped Giorno
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Giorno and Dio would hate each other tbh
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But if his dna as explained in that old blog said is vastly different from original looney tunes, does it matter if WB counts him or not? Tom and Jerry werent even WB characters, they were rivals back then to them by MGMBut after that blog they made him a Looney Tunes
Dust_Collector
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Just noticed that when they were explaining dimensional tiering during Simon's analysis, they used a render of Solaris to represent 4-D dimensions which is a cool detail.
And very funnily when they said each dimension infinitely transends the last they snuck in a render of Infinite and had him get squashed by a render of a thwomp lmao.
And very funnily when they said each dimension infinitely transends the last they snuck in a render of Infinite and had him get squashed by a render of a thwomp lmao.
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He's truly never gonna live down that L.
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Honestly I was iffy about 1-A Simon, but I actually think I buy it now. There's no smoking gun but it just feels "right" to have the Super Spiral Realm at outerversal given the juxtaposition of it being a realm of thoughts and ideas beyond space, time, and dimensions and the CD Drama establishing Simon becomes more ontologically "real" post apotheosis
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