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I agree
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Removing Multiple Dragon Ball Resistances
- Thread starter Vizer04
- Start date
- Status
- 10,594
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bro, I'm thinking it's still a prank that the guy in this topic put, lol
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goku almost died to sidra's hakai
SirAlex09
He/Him- 1,164
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Toriyama stated that. It's in the same guidebook that states that Nappa and Madara are equal and that Itachi would slap Madara.
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it's ok lol
- 11,697
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Definitely disagree with this. KLOL and Medeus have been making the most sense to me
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It really is both sides at each other's throats. Trying to completely shift blame away from yourself isn't going to help things at allOne side should stop the derailment and petty accusations
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Agree: @JustSomeWeirdo, @Damage3245, @Maverick_Zero_X
Disagree: @DarkDragonMedeus, @KLOL506, @Therefir, and now CloverDragon03
The reason why KLOL disagrees is because he thinks "This is just a weakness for hax in Dragon Ball specifically, being overpowered with strength."
While the reason JustSomeWeirdo agrees is because "I agree, this has always been a clear weakness on the part of the hax"
I honestly think you have to read the entire thread and make your opinion.
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I agree with the thread unless someone debunks this
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Good supreme administrator, we disagree with this and we find this absurd here, I think it would be better to close
- 15,735
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calm down sir, the agreements and disagreements are pretty much equal, calm down
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We're at a standstill here with the number of agreements and disagreements so closing the thread isn't fair. The plan seems to be to call in some bureaucrats to help out
- 15,346
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Throw me down for disagree in the OP
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Vizer is arguing that ee resist should be removed, since hakai can be overpowered with ki ( and every resistance that was given to goku because of this reason.) , Aguilla disagrees since goku tanked hakai for a while, although he needed the intervention of beerus. Strym then introduces that TS resistance and paralysis resistance should be removed, since both manga and anime support that those were only broken out of because of goku’s superior ki. He also gives a scan from the movie, which shows Broly overwriting Goku’s ki with his own to break out of the paralysis. KLOL counters by saying that this is just a weakness for db hax, and therefore the resistances should not be removed. Multiple people argue that the manga and the anime are different continuities, and one should not be used to disprove the other. Theres also the point that some hax in Dragon Ball have been negated by higher ap, and some that work regardless of ap.
Everything past that point of both sides has just been repetition
Also all the staff that agree/disagree are in Bold.
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i did read, but i dont think the execuses were good enoughOh okay, if you read the rest of the thread maybe you’ll see it
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Welp.
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That's not a summary of the relevant arguments-
Also what Bernkastell and Clover said.
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off topic, but are you a 07th verse supporter? Im assuming based on your name
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What I'm talking about isn't quincys. I was talking about aizenin ee...
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imagine, you messed with the most adorable work of vsbattles and you don't want it to be popular kk more Dragon Ball fans will arrive soon, lol
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Dude, can you like stop with this?
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Can yall stop with off-topic coments pls?
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Disagree Layered Hax is a thing and UES
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The side for removal states that ki-based hax can be overpowered by having stronger ki, therefore it is a weakness of the hax therefore, the target of said hax isn't "resisting" anything. The main hax involved is hakai, but this ultimately involves several forms of hax.
The side against removal states several things:
1. This is never directly stated.
2. We have direct evidence of weaker characters resisting ki-based hax from stronger characters
3. Ki is a UES and the existence erasure page regarding resistance (talking about hakai here) states "one's resistance to the ability can only be judged by the specific method by which this effect is achieved." Therefore, it is illogical to suggest DB characters cannot gain resistance from the very mechanics of their own verse.
4. The pro-side's argument suggests anyone stronger than the person using the hax can render it useless, even if they don't have/use ki.
There's probably more but those are the main ones.
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It seems fine i agree
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Hmm. I think that I am against removal in that case. Thank you for the summaries.
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I disagree based on the fact that the only instances have been brought into question-Sidra and Toppo, were both debunked. Golden Frieza did not overpower it, he out-controlled it with Ki Control.
Goku not immediately dying is a point against the OP, because the gap wasn't a simple 50 or even 20 times difference. Realistically the number is vastly and incomprehensibly higher, (Super Saiyan God) and then that number multiplied by both fifty (Super Saiyan Blue) AND twenty (Kaioken). If Sidra truly intended on killing Goku, even if you want to assume the gap between SSBBKK and Base is only two times, (a stupid and foolhardy assumption), this implies Sidra, who saw that level of power, is a level of incompetent rivaled by only GoW Ares.
Toppo is in the Tournament of Power, so he can't kill people, otherwise he'd be disqualified.
As such, it makes no sense to assume Hakai has an arbitrary limit that doesn't line up with the evidence the technique has.
Goku not immediately dying is a point against the OP, because the gap wasn't a simple 50 or even 20 times difference. Realistically the number is vastly and incomprehensibly higher, (Super Saiyan God) and then that number multiplied by both fifty (Super Saiyan Blue) AND twenty (Kaioken). If Sidra truly intended on killing Goku, even if you want to assume the gap between SSBBKK and Base is only two times, (a stupid and foolhardy assumption), this implies Sidra, who saw that level of power, is a level of incompetent rivaled by only GoW Ares.
Toppo is in the Tournament of Power, so he can't kill people, otherwise he'd be disqualified.
As such, it makes no sense to assume Hakai has an arbitrary limit that doesn't line up with the evidence the technique has.
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After looking at the series and how it treats Hakai: Every character who was never shown to have any resistance was instantly erased. See Present Zamasu and an entire city that Sidra erased. However, those who seems to have resistance aren't erased but can still take damage. On to the examples:
When Goku was hit with an orb of Destruction Energy, he was being damaged and he was unable to get out until Beerus saved him. Now make no mistake, he was being actively erased, it was just taking MUCH LONGER. The guy was in pain, his clothing was being damaged and he visibly tired from the ordeal after Beerus Had he stayed in that orb, he'd be dead. This is straight up a resistance to feat, EE damaged him and it would take multiple to actually succeed in erasing him. Or, EE that has shown to bypass resistance.
Frieza, on the other hand was unaffected by the Destruction Energy that was erasing Goku. His efforts went towards getting control to get out, which took a great deal of focus and visible effort on his part. During the ToP Frieza got hit with much more Destruction Energy and was unable to control it but he still wasn't erased, though it did hurt him and knock him out of Golden. You can say Toppo was holding back in that moment, but I don't see how. Frieza took that head on in a massive explosion of power. Toppo's statement of that he could erase Frieza but won't could also be taken to mean that he could just throw more at Frieza until he's erased.
Now we come to Vegeta, and I think this one despite being the most contentious is much more simple. Vegeta Power Null'd it. Hear me out: Vegeta punched through a Hakai by surrounding his fist with his ki. When he Power Null'd a normal Ki blast from Toppo, his entire body was surrounded by the same aura. So, all Vegeta didn't resist as much as he neutralized the Hakai. If he's capable of doing that with his Ki, then all he has to do is outmuscle Toppo's attacks, blasting through them with more energy. Vegeta never takes a Hakai head on like Frieza nor Goku, instead he counters with his own attacks that cancel them out.
Hence, I propose this compromise:
Frieza and Goku keep their resistances, they have displayed them. They are still affected by EE, it would just take multiple instances or a version of the hax that has shown to bypass their resistance.
Vegeta loses his resistance but the feat is added to his Power Null justifications, showing that not only can he null energy attacks but null those with special properties.
Finally, in matters dealing with Hakai, it is a hax that characters MUST show resistance to, like anything this.
When Goku was hit with an orb of Destruction Energy, he was being damaged and he was unable to get out until Beerus saved him. Now make no mistake, he was being actively erased, it was just taking MUCH LONGER. The guy was in pain, his clothing was being damaged and he visibly tired from the ordeal after Beerus Had he stayed in that orb, he'd be dead. This is straight up a resistance to feat, EE damaged him and it would take multiple to actually succeed in erasing him. Or, EE that has shown to bypass resistance.
Frieza, on the other hand was unaffected by the Destruction Energy that was erasing Goku. His efforts went towards getting control to get out, which took a great deal of focus and visible effort on his part. During the ToP Frieza got hit with much more Destruction Energy and was unable to control it but he still wasn't erased, though it did hurt him and knock him out of Golden. You can say Toppo was holding back in that moment, but I don't see how. Frieza took that head on in a massive explosion of power. Toppo's statement of that he could erase Frieza but won't could also be taken to mean that he could just throw more at Frieza until he's erased.
Now we come to Vegeta, and I think this one despite being the most contentious is much more simple. Vegeta Power Null'd it. Hear me out: Vegeta punched through a Hakai by surrounding his fist with his ki. When he Power Null'd a normal Ki blast from Toppo, his entire body was surrounded by the same aura. So, all Vegeta didn't resist as much as he neutralized the Hakai. If he's capable of doing that with his Ki, then all he has to do is outmuscle Toppo's attacks, blasting through them with more energy. Vegeta never takes a Hakai head on like Frieza nor Goku, instead he counters with his own attacks that cancel them out.
Hence, I propose this compromise:
Frieza and Goku keep their resistances, they have displayed them. They are still affected by EE, it would just take multiple instances or a version of the hax that has shown to bypass their resistance.
Vegeta loses his resistance but the feat is added to his Power Null justifications, showing that not only can he null energy attacks but null those with special properties.
Finally, in matters dealing with Hakai, it is a hax that characters MUST show resistance to, like anything this.
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I agree, we can also add to DB characters hax nullification through ki or something like that
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6 staffs has already disagreed including 1 bureaucrat. This thread can already be closed if there are no further arguments from the OP and those who agree with him. Besides, if possible, I would also suggest a DB discussion rule to avoid any further attempts at removing resistances using the arguments such as being stronger resist Hax, therefore Hax in DB is not really Hax.
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In addition, there's another possible explanation for Vegeta getting past Hakai, if people don't buy the Power Null:
Earlier in the ToP, once Frieza gets back up, he throws a boulder at Toppo when he's charging the Hakai. The boulder smacks the Hakai, and it shrinks. Hakai is still energy. Some of the energy from the Hakai was expended erasing the boulder. So, when Vegeta clashed with Toppo's Hakai, he used his energy to cancel it out and his Final Explosion was this taken to the extreme. He produced so much energy that Toppo's Hakai was used up in the clash and then it kept going to take Toppo out.
Simply put: instead of Vegeta having resistance or power nulling it, he made the issue about brute force, betting that he could produce more than Toppo could erase.
Earlier in the ToP, once Frieza gets back up, he throws a boulder at Toppo when he's charging the Hakai. The boulder smacks the Hakai, and it shrinks. Hakai is still energy. Some of the energy from the Hakai was expended erasing the boulder. So, when Vegeta clashed with Toppo's Hakai, he used his energy to cancel it out and his Final Explosion was this taken to the extreme. He produced so much energy that Toppo's Hakai was used up in the clash and then it kept going to take Toppo out.
Simply put: instead of Vegeta having resistance or power nulling it, he made the issue about brute force, betting that he could produce more than Toppo could erase.
Spinoirr
He/Him- 15,064
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I agree, Toppo in the ToP was using non lethal hakiai's because killing wasn't allowed
Gilad_Hyperstar
He/Him- 11,210
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Wouldn't it be limited resistance for Goku? As the same Hakai ball that he survived was about to erase him and damage him regardless, so Goku would only get the full resistance in Blue and above when he scales to Golden Frieza who did resisted
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