All of that just shows Pokémon are species profiles. Nobody is debating that, we’re debating the fact our standards for splitting the way that has been proposed here do indeed apply to species profiles anyways, we have precedent for this such as Kryptonians, and arguments that Pokémon as a species and Kryptonians as a species have some kind of difference and shouldn’t be treated the same have been debunked thoroughly.
Except that they literally don't do this. I've asked for evidence in this thread like 10 times now on what different attributes a pokemon has across universes, and not a single person in this thread has answered that.
Taller and heavier =/= stronger, because the latter factor is the only thing that ultimately matters for this when this is about indexing feats. And in terms of power and capability, every Pokemon species line is naturally able to replicate what each other does.
All this misconception comes from is thinking things like an alien race of humans, Saiyans or Kryptonians is somehow the same thing as a species of animals. Whether Pokemon, Digimon, real world animals or whatnot.
Yes, they are...? In the same way humans are a species of animal in the real world, Kryptonians are a species of animal in DC, and Saiyans are a species of animal in Dragon Ball (afaik). The actual misconception here is that sentience somehow disqualifies you from being classed as a species
Except the manga and games are literally no different. Pikachu in every single medium is known as the same creature, a pokemon mouse that manipulates electricity. The movesets of what they can learn is the same, how they evolve is the same, their physiology is the same, their pokedex information is the same as well.
You're the one who has to prove they don't change bud, it's not the default assumption.
No proof for this.
"Alien race of humans"
No, it's calling for a revision on Pokémon. Quit trying to change the standards every time something you don't like happens.
And each of these species don't have the same innate capabilities that members of said species can do. Not every Saiyan is capable of flying or manipulating KI by default. Not every Saiyan is capable of blowing planets up. Not every Saiyan is capable of going Super Saiyan.
Those are gained via specific training, complete mis-representation. Not that specifically proving Saiyans are different would do you much good, general standards are the same and I'd love you try to do the same for Kryptonians anyway.
And luckily I don't need to when the series already freaking shows this.
Lmao
Where all humans cant do the same thing as each other. Next.
Thank you for acknolweding theres differences, so not much of a non argument.
And it calls for a revision on species in general if you're going to pursue this. Quit acting like an ignorant stonewaller when you cant accept that things are blatant double standards or false equivalences like this site is known for doing.
Thanks for restating my point. Those are things not innately avaialble to the entire Saiyan species, Saiyans have to train in order to gain those powers. Each Saiyan being an entirely different person than another.
So I guess you're saying that if a species across any media known to have same set of abilities then they all can be done in the same page? Or you are saying that species are species regardless of media or alternate universe, so they don't need to change? In any case if there is no change regardless of media then why it matters if the they get seprate profiles as per different media's or the same, I mean will their scale change? If they then I guess the same abilities can have variation on the level they being used in different media's.
And yet, no evidence.
Curious how you keep on focusing on the games, which are the closest ones, and completely ignore manga and abilities. But no, that isn't true anyway given learnsets vary between Gens.
Stop making claims about verses you don't know. That is not true about Kryptonians.
Opposite of what I said. Start making arguments instead of trying to nitpick. Pokémon have differences too, again IVs and Natures come to mind.
No, you're the one stonewalling, actually. I bring you site standards, you try and ignore them. Won't work.
... Pokémon train too? Learnsets come from training, tutors exist, and so much else.
The former. Which is why splitting them up the first place when they all have the same capabilities makes no sense. Your just making different pages that list things that they can all already do across those mediums.
So will it make no difference in scale of each profiles if their profiles got split up as per different media's? I mean will we have just "many" profiles of same species or characters like arecus or any other Pokemon with the same tier?
And the manga doesnt show abilities that the game or anime doesn't already provide. YOU need to show evidence of it doing that if you're going to claim this.
Nice try, but this doesn't counter me. The movesets themselves "varying" (when they don't), doesnt mean that each member of a Pokemon species doesn't have access to the same moves as each other.
Who are all different characters from each other, which is why they aren't compiled under the same page.
Game mechanics. And even in-game mechanic wise thats not a difference, because any member of the species could get the same nature. It's not impossible for them, which is my point that theres no variation. They all have access to the same stuff and there isn't anything another member of the species can't access.
And I bring arguments of why the verse's case blatantly doesn't fall under that and you can't counter them. Won't work.
Training that any wild pokemon can do. Tutor moves are a different story that I don't quite thing should go for wild pokemon.
Then leave then. No one asked you to come and I frankly don't give a shit if you do or don't. All im seeing is conceding. But you do you. I don't care.
A good chunk of them would be the exact same tier with same abilities
I personally agree with this, but can somebody write a tally of which staff members that think what here so far please?
SUCH AS?
Did you see the summary I gave for why the pages should be kept together?
The abilities doesn't really matter much if we talk about same species regardless of kryptonians, saiyans or even same characters can across all media's can have same abilities yet the extent to which those abilities are being used matters, and if there is "almost" then it matters. Also if the tier's got affected then it must be done I guess.
I mean you will have hundreds of profiles which are the exact same with just minor tier changes at best (despite being in the same ballpark). It's pointless, considering even some of the same fears appear in the same series.
THIS. This is exactly what im talking about here.
In regards to mega evolution, while it is a distinction between games, the thing about this is that the games canonically acknowledge both timelimes simutaneously existing. It's not even just a parallel world thing where some things are similar and different, the verse itself recognizes both diverging timelines as being equally real.
I guess tier changes aren't minor in the first place even when we talk about just being one tier above the other then it's really a huge thing.
Jesus Christ you’d think you hadn’t read this thread
As just one example when this question was literally asked earlier. All you’ve done to respond to these is claim Game Mechanics for every little inconsistency between Games and other mediums and then pretend the arguments don’t exist and ask for them again, you’re stonewalling this thread by sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming about how you can’t hear the valid arguments and counter-arguments presented here
Afaik Armorchompy, Andytrenom, JustSomeWeirdo, Confluctor, Colonel_Krukov, and myself favor a profile split at the moment.
You can add me to the list, although my opinion isn't as valid, due to my lack of knowledge.
Most of those things have absolutely nothing to do with my question on how a species of Pokemon is depicted differently across the mediums. And even then, I debunked all of those things already.
Adding in a sneaky “in this last decade” because you know the most infamous examples are from older regions, this is seriously misleading
You seem to think just saying the whole battling system of Pokémon RPGs is Game Mechanics fixes all of your problems, but it doesn’t. Not only is there ample opportunity in world building, cutscenes, etc. But some abilities are actually referenced in battle. Kyogre doesn’t drown the battlefield, but they do cause a permanent rain storm in it, for example. And form changes mid battle DO happen, whether it be from Primal Kyogre and Groudon, Mega Evolutions, Aegislash, or Zygarde off the top of my head. The “game mechanics” still allow for these parts of other medium’s lore to be acknowledged, so if they don’t it’s a showing of inconsistency/difference
Nah nah, it's absolutely valid as your pfp > all other.
What’s the number in terms of disagreements? That’s 7 staff, this should be bordering on getting applied around now afaik
1. CRTs being minor doesn’t make a crt any less valid, so this point is entirely mute.
Season one and two of pokemon was inconsistent in on itself but even then it was minor mistakes and Pikachu using a shower of water to soak Onix and electrocute him as well as that one wacky instance of yet again, Pikachu electrocuting Rhyhorn cause he struck his horn. The rest have complete consistency. Also, unless you suggest the anime is split into timelines (which would be utter bullshit) this point is basically irrelevant.
Accepted is probably a better word yeah sorry my bad
Unnecessary and wrong. I think splitting off some minor things from dubious canon games is fine but anime, games and manga shouldn't be touched.
