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Obanai Versus Gyomei (GRACE)

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yqttlsx said:
obanai have attack potency advantage and speed advantage. I think these are the most important factors to get this battle.
Click to expand...
Base gyomei hurt and countered a attack from healthy muzan alone, fought kokushibou and was able to parry and defend even surprise attacks while having to defend sanemi, his presence was enough to distract muzan and he could directly face him unlike obanai who every single attack was a surprise attacks with the help of others distracting muzan
So by feats gyomei is massively superior to obanai
He also has superior hax, to activate his nichirin is less of a tax in his body than with obanai who was pretty much at health and yet he almost fainted
And his stw was more matured and used more than obanai so gyomei has a Edge in hax and stamina
Statements
Well you already know the statements of him being the strongest but also he was the only one expected to be able to hold on against muzan and they said the situation was a lost cause without him fighting
Like every hashira centered around gyomei when he arrived because he is the pillar of strengh for the corps and while obanai is a decent support he can't be expected to face powerhouses like him

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denzeelmao said:
Why does he only need to look out for Obanai exactly? There are 2 hashira behind him who are considerably stronger

How would he not know? He has been shown to sense people, and he should've sensed that sanemi was coming. Also, yes it can. Muzan's reaction speed is faster than Sanemi's. He should've gone on guard as soon as that blade stabbed him even if he didn't sense him, which canonically, he should.

Do I also have to remind you that Iguro alongside Mitsuri wasted 3 hours fighting Nakime without ever landing a hit, and while all this was happening other Hashira and slayers had already killed 4 UMs in their respective fights?
Click to expand...
The 3 people he knows to attack are the giyuu mitsuri and obanai. have to be on the watchfull for these three.
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prove that the human intuition of the banana is passive. sanemi panel is the counter argument that this is passive
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there's no need
 
Romeu08 said:
Base gyomei hurt and countered a attack from healthy muzan alone, fought kokushibou and was able to parry and defend even surprise attacks while having to defend sanemi, his presence was enough to distract muzan and he could directly face him unlike obanai who every single attack was a surprise attacks with the help of others distracting muzan
So by feats gyomei is massively superior to obanai
He also has superior hax, to activate his nichirin is less of a tax in his body than with obanai who was pretty much at health and yet he almost fainted
And his stw was more matured and used more than obanai so gyomei has a Edge in hax and stamina
Statements
Well you already know the statements of him being the strongest but also he was the only one expected to be able to hold on against muzan and they said the situation was a lost cause without him fighting
Like every hashira centered around gyomei when he arrived because he is the pillar of strengh for the corps and while obanai is a decent support he can't be expected to face powerhouses like him

ibb.co

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Image Screenshot-2022-07-28-16-59-41-390-com-android-chrome hosted in ImgBB
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Click to expand...
I gave the answer to the healthy muzan thing above.
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There is almost no ap feat from kokushibo
 
yqttlsx said:
prove that the human intuition of the banana is passive. sanemi panel is the counter argument that this is passive
Click to expand...
What are you talking about bro??? I assume you mean Muzan by Banana??? Even then, he was distracted by Gyomei because even he knew out of everyone there he was the strongest.

yqttlsx said:
there's no need
Click to expand...
There's no need because you can't debunk it or...?

yqttlsx said:
The 3 people he knows to attack are the giyuu mitsuri and obanai. have to be on the watchfull for these three.
Click to expand...
Yeah, no. I don't know where you got that from. Even then, you're saying Mitsuri/Giyuu AP > Gyomei AP?
 
denzeelmao said:
What are you talking about bro??? I assume you mean Muzan by Banana??? Even then, he was distracted by Gyomei because even he knew out of everyone there he was the strongest.


There's no need because you can't debunk it or...?


Yeah, no. I don't know where you got that from. Even then, you're saying Mitsuri/Giyuu AP > Gyomei AP?
Click to expand...
I will answer briefly

yeah
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headcanon
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nakime reacting to iguro in manga in everywhere, what should I debunk?
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no? according to what?
 
denzeelmao, yqttlsx, I think your discussion is getting rather chaotic to the point where some people can't really follow it anymore. It might be appropriate to make summaries of your positions and arguments, so that everyone can form their own opinion about this.
 
yqttlsx said:
I gave the answer to the healthy muzan thing above.
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There is almost no ap feat from kokushibo
Click to expand...
I'm listing everything gyomei did that narratively and by feats gets him above obanai
Healthy muzan example shows that gyomei by himself is able to counter muzan AP, durability and speed, something obanai was failing to do even marked and with other hashiras helping
Gyomei repeated these feats even after significant injuries defending other hashiras and was by himself turning the tides of the fight
So yeah, obanai with the help of 3 hashiras cut muzan neck
Gyomei alone destroyed muzan head and body to a bigger extent, reacted and blocked a healthy muzan attack
Repeated these feats again after fighting kokushibou, crushing muzan body and using stw to begin a counterattack while defending the other hashiras
 
Nehz_XZX said:
denzeelmao, yqttlsx, I think your discussion is getting rather chaotic to the point where some people can't really follow it anymore. It might be appropriate to make summaries of your positions and arguments, so that everyone can form their own opinion about this.
Click to expand...
not bad idea
 
Romeu08 said:
I'm listing everything gyomei did that narratively and by feats gets him above obanai
Healthy muzan example shows that gyomei by himself is able to counter muzan AP, durability and speed, something obanai was failing to do even marked and with other hashiras helping
Gyomei repeated these feats even after significant injuries defending other hashiras and was by himself turning the tides of the fight
So yeah, obanai with the help of 3 hashiras cut muzan neck
Gyomei alone destroyed muzan head and body to a bigger extent, reacted and blocked a healthy muzan attack
Repeated these feats again after fighting kokushibou, crushing muzan body and using stw to begin a counterattack while defending the other hashiras
Click to expand...
i answered all of these
 
Nehz_XZX said:
denzeelmao, yqttlsx, I think your discussion is getting rather chaotic to the point where some people can't really follow it anymore. It might be appropriate to make summaries of your positions and arguments, so that everyone can form their own opinion about this.
Click to expand...
Here.

Do I also have to remind you that Iguro alongside Mitsuri wasted 3 hours fighting Nakime without ever landing a hit, and while all this was happening other Hashira and slayers had already killed 4 UMs in their respective fights?

Iguro entered fresh against Muzan with no injuries or fatigue of any sort, whereas other Hashira were heavily injured and fatigued from their previous UM fights.

  • Giyuu was fatigued and fought with a broken sword and an almost dead arm(from the Akaza fight) against Muzan.
  • Sanemi was fatigued and injured, missing 2 fingers, and holding his guts with bandages.
  • Gyomei was fatigued, cut, and bruised too.

Unmarked Iguro was stronger than Marked Giyuu and marked Sanemi against Muzan, and that's why he was able to perform on their level.

I'll agree Obanai did protect Tanjiro, but he was saved 5 times in the final arc.

  1. He got saved by Yushiro against Nakime
  2. He and other pillars were saved by a low-rank demon slayer where they sacrificed themselves by jumping in front of Muzan's attack.
  3. He got saved by Zenitsu when he almost fainted
  4. Probably got saved by Giyuu and Gyomei from Muzan's Shockwave attack(Inosuke comment)
  5. Tanjiro helped him with Yushiro's talisman.
When Iguro entered the fight against Muzan, he saved Tanjiro and was the 2nd pillar to get a hit on Muzan along with everyone else, but as the fight further progressed, he was ghosted. He, himself mentioned how he has contributed the least in this fight. Iguro had gotten so weak just from fighting Muzan and his poison, that he decided to shield Himejima instead of fighting Muzan, but even that wasn't possible for him.
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After Mitsuri got injured, he decided to sacrifice himself. In chapter 188. He stated, " First, I must die and swap out this body that's flowing from impure blood". (and this is the guy who lectured Giyuu for not understanding the role of a pillar)

Iguro did sever Muzan's limbs, but with the help of Sanemi, who created the opening for him.

After getting the antidote for Muzan's blood, Iguro decided to turn the tide around for himself, but he almost fainted right after turning his blade red and was saved by Zenitsu, which shows a lack of strength as well.

In Muzan's Shockwave attack (which took out everyone) Giyuu and Gyomei were the ones who saved everyone around them(Inosuke comment), which cost them their limbs.

Iguro got lucky, as he only lost his eyes. Any loss of limbs, he would've died from blood loss right then and there.

Also, Iguro was already half blind since birth. Kaburamaru was the real MVP, who helped him fight Muzan as he(snake) was predicting all of Muzan's movements. Going full blind had little to no effect on Iguro, as he wasn't that desperate. And anyway, he did get Yushiro's talismans, so he got his vision back as well, making his "blind fight" a question of a chapter.


The version of Muzan, Obanai, and Tanjiro fought for 25 minutes was exceptionally WEAK in the final hour of the battle(When Tanjiro fought solo against Muzan), probably weaker than his 12 kizukis. As he mentioned "It's unbelievable that I can't instantly kill a man who's so heavily injured. All because of the Tamayo drug. They are not fast, it's me who is getting slow" Muzan was hitting fatigue, he was out of breath, vomiting blood, and running low on stamina, which is not normal for demons, as they have no concept of fatigue and stamina. Even Inosuke and Zenitsu, whose power levels were not close to pillars, and who didn't even have a mark were holding their own against Muzan for the last 25 minutes of the fight.

About STW

Iguro only got to experience STW for like a second before he got taken out along with everyone else.

Just try placing fresh Rengoku or Tengen in place of Iguro in Muzan Fight. They'd perform even better than Iguro at base because Not only they are more experienced, but they also have far better stats than Iguro.

Attack Potency

Gyomei completely decimated prime Muzan's head in one blow.
Enough said here.

Speed/Reaction Speed

See-Through World experience would already put gyomei above obanai.

TL;DR Gyomei slams, this thread is a disrespect to our blind boi.

PXQgAD7csSNnp3ITCcai7PUvUMmRgjYD9Sy_P7yxP6k.png


As for you all thinking "Well, Obanai did more in the muzan fight!"

It's called stamina. Having a reactive power level doesn't mean you have infinite stamina. Let me put it this way;

Let's say Gyomei is at 100% Power, but he has no stamina, is on his knees, and is bleeding to death.

Let's say obanai is at 70% Power, he has full stamina, no bruises, not tired at all.

Who do you think will accomplish more in a battle?

Do you finally get the concept of stamina? These guys are normal humans. Not demons. Even if their reactive power level was permanent ( it isn't permanent, they just have momentary amps to their power near-death.)
 
denzeelmao said:
He got saved by Yushiro against Nakime.

Even if their reactive power level was permanent ( it isn't permanent, they just have momentary amps to their power near-death.)
Click to expand...
Obanai and Mitsuri were less in danger of losing their lives and more like having a hard time landing a hit on Nakime though it was possible to trick Muzan into believing that Nakime killed them.

If it isn't permanent, then that is Statistics Amplification or Awakened Power not Reactive Power Level.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
It wouldn't count as a blitz since Muzan was still able to see Obanai attacking. He was however unable to avoid that attack despite seeing it.
Click to expand...
Well, playing devil's advocate here, Looks like sanemi made that opening for him.
About saving Tanjiro, that's a feat done by movement speed, So I believe anyone above the 7th rank in running speed could've performed this feat.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
Obanai and Mitsuri were less in danger of losing their lives and more like having a hard time landing a hit on Nakime though it was possible to trick Muzan into believing that Nakime killed them.

If it isn't permanent, then that is Statistics Amplification or Awakened Power not Reactive Power Level.
Click to expand...
While this is true, I'm pretty sure it was an illusion caused by Yushiro instead.
 
Nehz_XZX said:
Only the part of Nakime having killed Obanai and Mitsuri is an illusion. Yushiro arrived and helped them out while they were fighting Nakime.
Click to expand...
I still haven't seen any debunks to Gyomei having better control of STW or him destroying Prime Muzans head, so my vote hasn't changed, and my argument has been served, I'll follow but not respond as much now.
 
denzeelmao said:
I still haven't seen any debunks to Gyomei having better control of STW or him destroying Prime Muzans head, so my vote hasn't changed, and my argument has been served, I'll follow but not respond as much now.
Click to expand...
Okay, that's fine. I'm still inclined to think that Gyomei wins this myself.
 
denzeelmao said:
Well, playing devil's advocate here, Looks like sanemi made that opening for him.
About saving Tanjiro, that's a feat done by movement speed, So I believe anyone above the 7th rank in running speed could've performed this feat.
Click to expand...
if demon slayers dont get power up, it's true but demon slayers get power up in fights
 
yqttlsx said:
if demon slayers dont get power up, it's true but demon slayers get power up in fights
Click to expand...
Nehz_XZX said:
"Should be comparable to the other Pillars (The list is purely about running speed with no specified length or description of the running course. Mitsuri, Muichiro and Obanai are suggested to have been impeded in some way)" (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Tengen_Uzui)
Click to expand...
The list has some questionable elements in my opinion, so I would be careful about using it to make definite hierarchies among the Pillars.
 
denzeelmao said:
Demon slayer's writing is questionable as a whole 😭
Click to expand...
I wouldn't go that far. The list is fine for scaling Tengen and Muichiro to the rest of the Pillars but it lacks details that would be needed to say for sure that someone is faster than someone else based on it.
 
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