I did not understand what you are trying to say. a demon body's stamina is inconsistent (other than its neck) so I wouldn't say breaking arm and cutting arm is a very effective feat.
I guess you didn't understand. The muzan that I gave the ap feat is 7k, while the one you call weak is 9k muzan. they are not the same
Wrong. Muzan when freshly out of the cocoon is 8850 Years old. 7K Muzan was still in the cocoon.
proof it
"Crushed Muzan's arm whip when most of the Pillars were unable to cut it." (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Gyomei_Himejima)
You can "proof it" with simple math.
If it really is just Giyu and Sanemi, then that would indeed warrant a change to the profile though that still means that Gyomei scales above Giyu and Sanemi which are rather strong.
thanks. but it makes 9k muzan stronger.he say the is weak compared to the beginning of the war
Yeah. It can be scaled on giyuu and sanemi in muzan war as AP. btw, what are your thoughts on this subject?
Uh, no. What you're saying doesn't make sense. You are saying a healthy Muzan who only talks to Tamayo is weaker than a drugged Muzan that is being aged and cannot use his blood demon art techniques, also being drained of his stamina, also, he clearly points out that he's diving strength, to battle the drug. He already admits he got slower and weaker. There is no point in debating that The Muzan who went to visit Ubuyashiki is way stronger than the Muzan that has been aged to 8450 years and is being constantly drained by the poison.
I'm for now just watching the thread for the most part though I do believe that Gyomei would win this.
As I said, compared to the beginning of the war they say. The drug may be more effective after the age of 9 thousand (because of the wounds inflicted by the yoriichi), but in any case, with the arguments I have thrown, this only strengthens the 9 thousand-year-old muzan.
i will adding your vote
I even have a better argument i found, that i think will shut this case down. (Not my argument, but still facts.)
Iguro entered fresh against Muzan with no injuries or fatigue of any sort, whereas other Hashira were heavily injured and fatigued from their previous UM fights.
- Giyuu was fatigued, and fought with a broken sword and an almost dead arm(from the Akaza fight) against Muzan.
- Sanemi was fatigued, and injured, missing 2 fingers, and holding his guts with bandages.
- Gyomei was fatigued, cut, and bruised too.
Unmarked Iguro was stronger than Marked Giyuu and marked Sanemi against Muzan, and that's why he was able to perform on their level.
I'll agree Obanai did protect Tanjiro, but he himself was saved 5 times in the final arc.
When Iguro entered the fight against Muzan, he saved Tanjiro and was the 2nd pillar to get a hit on Muzan along with everyone else, but as the fight further progressed, he was ghosted. He, himself mentioned how he has contributed the least in this fight. Iguro had gotten so weak just from fighting Muzan and his poison, that he decided to shield Himejima instead of fighting Muzan, but even that wasn't possible for him.
- He got saved by Yushiro against Nakime
- He and other pillars were saved by low-rank demon slayer where they sacrificed themselves by jumping in front of Muzan's attack.
- He got saved by Zenitsu when he almost fainted
- Probably got saved by Giyuu and Gyomei from Muzan's Shockwave attack(Inosuke comment)
- Tanjiro helped him with Yushiro's talisman.
After Mitsuri got injured, he decided to sacrifice himself. In chapter 188. He stated, " First, I must die and swap out this body that's flowing from impure blood". (and this is the guy who lectured Giyuu for not understanding the role of a pillar)
Iguro did sever Muzan's limbs, but with the help of Sanemi, who created the opening for him.
After getting the antidote for Muzan's blood, Iguro decided to turn the tide around for himself, but he almost fainted right after turning his blade red and was saved by Zenitsu, which shows a lack of strength as well.
In Muzan's Shockwave attack (which took out everyone) Giyuu and Gyomei were the ones who saved everyone around them(Inosuke comment), which cost them their limbs.
Iguro got lucky, as he only lost his eyes. Any lost of limbs, he would've died from blood loss right then and there.
Also, Iguro was already half blind since birth. Kaburamaru was the real MVP, who helped him fight Muzan as he(snake) was predicting all of Muzan's movements. Going full blind had little to no effect on Iguro, as he wasn't that desperate. And anyway, he did get Yushiro's talismans, so he got his vision back as well, making his "blind fight" a question of a chapter.
The version of Muzan, Obanai, and Tanjiro fought for 25 minutes was exceptionally WEAK in the final hour of the battle(When Tanjiro fought solo against Muzan), probably weaker than his 12 kizukis. As he himself mentioned it " Its unbelievable that I can't instantly kill a man who's so heavily injured. All because of the Tamayo drug. They are not fast, it's me who is getting slow" Muzan was hitting fatigue, he was out of breath, vomiting blood, and running low on stamina, which is not normal for demons, as they have no concept of fatigue and stamina. Even Inosuke and Zenitsu, whose power levels were not close to pillars, and who didn't even have a mark were holding their own against Muzan for the last 25 minutes of the fight.
About STW
Iguro only got to experience STW for like a second before he got taken out along with everyone else.
Just try placing fresh Rengoku or Tengen in place of Iguro in Muzan Fight. They'd perform even better than Iguro at base cose not only they are more experienced, but they also have far better stats than Iguro.
TL;DR Gyomei slams, this thread is a disrespect to our blind boi.
(FYI, Demon slayer characters have Reactive Power levels, while that is true, this hasn't been shown to be permanent. So Gyomei's power amp against kokushibo, or any other hashira being "stronger" permanently by fighting upper moons is out the window.)
I have answered many of these, and because it is too long, I am lazy to answer the places I did not answer. I will write you the answer on discord
Obanai performed this feat on a Muzan that is way weaker than the Muzan that was pre-drug. I already proved this.
If you are lazy to debate, don't debate.
i changed my idea i am writing here
I have to actually agree with this.
I'm tired of answering the same arguments
he continues to present the arguments that I have answered above. It's okay if he develops a counter-argument, but I'm lazy to answer these same arguments.
Is that example with Sanemi identical to a previous argument from him?
I'm not just talking about attack potency. and sanemi offguard the muzan in this panel.Obanai performed this feat on a Muzan that is way weaker than the Muzan that was pre-drug. I already proved this.
On top of that, Sanemi was the one who made the opening for Obanai to perform this feat anyway.
Regardless of this, according to your debate, you'd rank sanemi higher than Gyomei because he performed this?
Do you now scale sanemi higher than Gyomei because of this feat? He clearly went right through the neck, right?
Or how are you going to explain with the information sharing that demons have, Kokushibo Acknowledged that Gyomei, Sanemi were the strongest hashira?
Even after he saw their marks and their full potenials?
Newer i wrote the answer to him.
Yes, that's true. But show me the proof that this reactive power level is permanent. Even if it is, you still can't debunk the fact that Gyomei went through A young muzan's durability which I proved was correct. This puts his AP above Gyomei's in the first place. No matter if he hurt Old Muzan or not. If you think the power boosts are permanent, this should make it so that gyomei would get way stronger after the UM fight he went through, since earlier, He went through Young muzan's durability.
It's called stamina. Having a reactive power level doesn't mean you have infinite stamina. Let me put it this way;
This is simply false. Where'd you get this idea? The mark boosts them, Sure. but everyone gets the same boost from a mark. This is said by the narrator, being an x100 boost. If what you said is true, And you're saying the databooks were before the Muzan fight, you'd be debunking yourself. Since X100 Gyomei's base power would be Stronger than x100 Obanai's base power.
I'm pretty sure that it usually is permanent especially since it is just characters getting stronger faster than usual under certain circumstances.
You see, Obanai hasn't gone through any power-ups because even Nakime, a weaker UM4, was casually dodging his attacks.
What? You said durability in demons was inconsistent. So why does it matter if it's off guard? He still bypassed his conventional durability, right?
You gave an irrelevant answer to what I said. I said, if the gyomei weren't tired, prove that you can do what the obanai did.
Completely ignored what i said, but whatever.
I'm not talking about the mark. I'm telling you that he is in base and got power up after this running race. also in that running race table, it is written for obanai that 'obanai goes in a zig-zag shape like a snake, otherwise it would have ranked higher'.
So he'd go up from 7 to 2 or 1?? That is completely headcanon.
offguard often reduces durability. Muzan is currently fighting hashira and obanai so he needs to be on the lookout for obanai attacks. While Obanai doesn't do a speedblitz, he's not unprepared either.What? You said durability in demons was inconsistent. So why does it matter if it's off guard? He still bypassed his conventional durability, right?
Lets say off-guard does matter and he did just strike a luck strike.
Here's the problem, the feat you are piggybacking off of that supposedly puts Obanai's AP above Gyomei's, would also be considered off guard/Inconsistent.
They're all attacking Muzan at the same time here. And Muzan wasn't off guard, he was fighting someone else. His guard was still up. And since they all cut him, you're saying Giyuu's, Mitsuri's, Obanai's ap's are all above Gyomei's?
And here, he notices the blade before it goes onto his neck, we can even see sanemi approaching him. Muzan should be able to sense this. Because he has been shown to do so before.
(He also should've gone on guard as soon as he was stabbed, meaning before it reached his neck, Muzan got on guard. because he notices it before the blade reaches his neck, even if you're saying the neck has more durability than their bodies.)
So by your reasoning... Sanemi's/Mitsuris/Giyuus/Obanais AP > Gyomei's AP Now? Because they cut Old Muzan?
I didn't say anything like that, but if we look at the feats, it wouldn't be wrong.
me tooWhy do I have to do what obanai did??
Why does he only need to look out for Obanai exactly? There are 2 hashira behind him who are considerably stronger
How would he not know? He has been shown to sense people, and he should've sensed that sanemi was coming. Also, yes it can. Muzan's reaction speed is faster than Sanemi's. He should've gone on guard as soon as that blade stabbed him even if he didn't sense him, which canonically, he should.
