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At Least Universal DMC and more continued

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Dienomite22

Dienomite22

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Here's the summary, didn't have to change much tbh just added a little bit of info about Argosax's feat.

The Mundus's Feat (Copy/pasted, slightly altered from Ogbunabali)
The only feat that is 3-A that's being discussed is the Mundus feat. And by process of elimination it's definitely creation.

  • It's not teleportation because this is teleportation, and even Munuds himself says that in the human world they are weaker, as well as the demon world not having a sky like that, means that it's not teleportation.
  • It's also not illusions because the fight can't physically happen in that space they were in, if you've played the game you would know what I mean here is a full fight you can watch it yourself if you haven't already, and not to mention the room they were in doesn't have a scratch on it when we see Dante in the aftermath, which again would be physically impossible if it was an illusion.
    • The sky rotating is also just a weird camera spin, not the area itself moving, which you can quite clearly see when Mundus flies up and the sky behind him isn't rotating at all.
    • There is also no "air burst" when he jumps, that's blatantly false. If someone sees an "air burst" there feel free to show me a scan of where, because I don't see anything.
    • As well as when he creates the dimension both him and Dante float in the air, unlike some people that have claimed they were standing feet flat which is just wrong.
[1] *The support for this is with the tweet as well as in the DMC 3 manga where it is stated that their names have more of a literal meanings, rather then it being for show. And Mundus's name meaning "World", "Universe" or "Void". [2]All of these together make it pretty clear that it's a creation feat.

Argosax's feat (Copy/pasted, slightly altered from ParadoxIndifferent)
Context

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Arius: "The world is already warped. Everything that belongs to the devils will eventually revert to its original form"
  • 1
"She is certain that his [Dante]'s skill is necessary to stop the evil (Argosax) and prevent the Demon World from consuming our dimension."

What does this mean for Argosax
The opening narration of the DMC3 Manga gives us insight on what the universe originally and it tells us that originally nothing but darkness and chaos existed but then a sliver of light came and then the two split, creating the Demon World and the Human World. Thanks to the scans above this shows what Arius means by "everything that belongs to the devils will evntually revert to its original form" and this would be accomplished with Argosax's power.

Supporting Feats (Copy/Pasted, slightly altered from Ogbunabali)
Now for the supporting feats, well there aren't that much and these would only be supporting feats if the 3-A is accepted.

  • The first one is the Mirror World one. Self explanatory. It was powered by Mundus and it takes you to a mirror version of the world.
  • The other one is the Nightmare one. Where it teleports you to another dimension. This one is kinda iffy, since the point of conjecture was whether it teleported you, or just showed you illusions. Well here you can see the blob go down and you literally fall in this dimension, and when you finish fighting in there, you go inside a portal and you rise up from the blob.
    • In the enemy files it says this

      "When you are surrounded in its gel-like form, you will be teleported into an evil dimension. You must defeat the evil spirits that rule the dimension. The evil is a reflection of Dante's trauma that rests in his subconscious."

      Which makes a clear distinction that the teleportation to the dimension is one thing, and that the evils just rule the dimension, which are the traumas of Dante.
  • And the last one are the dice games in DMC4, specifically the one inside the Savior which is powered by Sparda and they send you to different realities with different day and night cycles . Well again this one is kinda iffy but if the 3-A is accepted then it wouldn't be. One of the points brought up against this was that Sanctus is suddenly 3-A as well as Nero, but that's not really how it works. Just because they draw power from a very large source doesn't mean that they possess all that power, that's just silly.
 
We don't really need another thread to go to yet more 500 posts just for there to be no upgrade. The Mundus feat has already been addressed, as has the meaningless feats attributed to Savior and whatnot. None of them are real.
 
Thanks, I'll try to stay out of the thread myself to not be accused of bias because of my views or anything.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Sorry to say, reopening this because it will cause more of a stir if we keep it closed. I am sick of the fact that we can't go a day without some small drama or something happening. It's tiresome. Just have a civil debate. It's not that damn hard to do.
Click to expand...
Dude, get out of my head, I was think the same thing. o3o
 
This is something I was writing before the previous thread closed. I've modified it a bit to be as polite as possible.

"I know this is quite troublesome considering the extension of this thread, but you (Matthew) should read the whole arguments and start a proper debunking post to cover every single point you think it's wrong. That way you might find some arguments that are prepared for your counterarguments.

Right now you guys are hopping from topic to topic agreeing to disagree.

I'm sorry Matt, but I read the last part of the thread minutes ago and the feeling is quite the opposite. I know this has been debunked in the past and you worked so hard for it, but you need to stop being so disrespectful with this just because it has been done before since it's not the exact same case. The way I look at it, this thread is way more complete than anything else before, and I don't like your attitude of 'lol no, again with this'. It's really uncalled for (at least for the OP who has been really polite with everyone) to be like that, and while all the members should be civil, the staff members should give the role model. You, specifically, are the one who has been waited for for like weeks, and coming with this mindset doesn't help to keep the thread civil when you're disagreeing with a lot of arguments and explanations given during said weeks."

I want to get through this like everyone. So in order to get that we should be civil and polite, and as accurate as possible in our arguments. Some attitudes don't help your cases.
 
I think if more people debated like Calaca, we'd all be fine. Matt is always insulted at the end of the day. He hardly even insults people himself, despite his bluntness.

We all get frustrated with others, but there is no need to result to going full Comicvine on others.
 
The clear things up aruis's ritual was to unseal argosax not merge the human and demon world

The guide book for 2 said that argosax was going to consume the human world which is a universe

Aruis said to lucia that the world was going to become back to its original form when the human and demon world was one universe. The dmc 3 manga outright said the universe was split in two
 
I apologize for my attitude on the previous thread, I'll try to behave in a better way here.

EDIT: Quote removed, as it's already in the OP.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Sorry to say, reopening this because it will cause more of a stir if we keep it closed. I am sick of the fact that we can't go a day without some small drama or something happening. It's tiresome. Just have a civil debate. It's not that damn hard to do.
Click to expand...
Agreed.
 
Sera EX said:
I think if more people debated like Calaca, we'd all be fine. Matt is always insulted at the end of the day. He hardly even insults people himself, despite his bluntness.

We all get frustrated with others, but there is no need to result to going full Comicvine on others.
Click to expand...
Also agreed.
 
So please someone debunk the ide of mundus stuff and argosax. Because people who defended has shown many evidences to be. The only rebuttal so far is that it's because of outlier, portal etc. But these so called rebuttal are not coherent when trying to disprove it.

Matt is supposed to disprove these but even the previous thread he hasnt shown proofread of disapproval on the feats.
 
Kep had gripes about it last I remember, so you could contact him to see if he has anything to say. Unless he said anything in the previous thread and I stupidly missed it.
 
Not knowledgeable about DMC, so don't laugh at me if I said something stupid. Regardless of whether the supposed "3-A feat" is valid or not, isn't the next feat in the verse like, High 6-A? That would be a blatant outlier if that is the case.
 
There are 2 3-A feats and 2 or 3 4-C feats that could potentially be 3-A.All are performed by God tiers of the verse
 
It's in the OP but it's just used as supporting evidence for 3-A.

4-C stuff:

Mundus creation feat is at the absolute minimum 4-C.

The Savior powering the Dice games which transports (guidebooks says recreates) 4 other dimensions that all contain a sun and has their own time (shown when each being set during different times of a day).

Mundus powering the Mallet Island which contains the Mirror World that has a sun.

and DMC5 possibly having a creation feat. But that's is still getting discussed.

If you want more info just let me know.The previous thread had a bunch of stuff I left out in the OP so I will try my best.
 
Only God tiers are involved and would scale to all of this.Fodder bosses and lesser demons are 7 and 6 tier.And All the God tiers who scale do not have anti-feats or contradicted showings thatgoes against the scaling,especially Dante with him being shown to not have trouble with ANY enemies in the games (besides DMC3 obviously) that aren't God tiers.
 
The saviour isn't really a god tier character the power it was getting from the sparda was incomplete plus it is hinted in the game trish could fight the saviour
 
Sparda 20000000 said:
The saviour isn't really a god tier character the power it was getting from the sparda was incomplete plus it is hinted in the game trish could fight the saviour.
Click to expand...
The Saviour is a top tier and is currently rated higher than Mundus also since it fought DMC4 Dante, so i wouldn't scale her to it.
 
The saviour really shouldn't scale higher than mundus Dante wasn't serious in that fight at all plus he knew Nero was still in there so there is a explanation for him holding back

The power the sparda was giving both sanctus and the saviour was incomplete Sanctus knew he wasn't getting the full power of sparda and if he didn't have the full power why would the saviour
 
I'll be keeping track of people agreeing/disagreeing with the propositions.

Agree:

15(16?) (Dienomite22, Sparda 20000000, Me, AstralKing7(?), AogiriKira, Ogbunabali, DarkGrath, Tony di bugalu, ParadoxIndifferent, TISSG7Redgrave, ShiroyashaGinSan & Dante Demon Killah [on Argosax's feat in particular], BlackDarkness679, DMUA, Kyo Takashi, Callsign Castle)

Disagree:

4 (Matthew Schroeder, The real cal howard, Paul Frank, TriforcePower1 [on Mundus' feat in particular])

Neutral:

4 (Ryukama, Dragonmasterxyz, Dark649, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan)

I'd like to know Kepekley's definitive opinion as well.
 
Just to quickly add to the agreeing list; before Matthew responded back and it was uncertain whether he would respond at all, I contacted all of the members on the knowledgeable members page. Callsign Castle has since agreed with the thread, but I don't think he's directly gone on this thread. You can check his message wall for the summary I left there.
 
Sparda 20000000 said:
apparently the saviour created the pocket dimensions you boss rush two of them had suns
Click to expand...
Two? The Angelos fight and Echidna's fight both had obvious suns, I'm guessing those were the two you were referring to. But Agnus' also has a sun if you look out the windows, and while it is somewhat hard to see, in Berial's fight it is sunset and getting the right angle you can just see the glow of the sunrise on the horizon. I suppose Berial's is maybe more debatable, but that would mean at least 3/4 had suns.
 
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