At Least Universal DMC and more continued

[Sparda_20000000]

I forgot about the angelos and agnus

 

[Lightning_XXI]

When the Savior was fighting Dante he had Nero is his core, who have Sparda's Blood

When Sanctus was fighting Nero he didn't had...well, Nero, in the Savior's core, which was connected with him, then he couldn't use the swords power

Sanctus is a comparable to DMC1 Dante and had Sparda's Sword power, so basically, he was comparable to Sparda DT Dante, who defeated Mundus

Edit: And oh, I also agree with the Nightmare stuff, Reb

 

[Sparda_20000000]

Sanctus said he wasn't getting the full power of sparda that's because he rejected his humanity

Dante is the only character to use the full power of sparda

Sanctus is more comparable to Arkham then dmc 1 dante

 

[Dark649]

Sanctus does not scale yes, but he himself is stronger than Echidna, who is comparable if not stronger than Blob Arkham. Since the Saviour was powered by Nero who has Sparda's blood, i undid my edit since it can likely scale.

 

[Sparda_20000000]

Sanctus would be stronger then Arkham as he actually had the sparda where as Arkham only had the force edge echidna being stronger blob Arkham not sure

As for the saviour with Nero absorbed I'm not sure

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Question,what tier were Sanctus dimensions?4-C?

 

[Sir_sun_man]

seems fine

 

[Sparda_20000000]

Isn't creating a dimension with a sun in it high 4-C?

 

[Maxnumb231]

Savior is above mundus? Based on what? Savior fighting dante isnt even scalable, as dante never wanted to try in the first place and his goal was never to finish the savior but wanted to wake nero up. Nero who has yamato was no match to diabolic sanctus. Not only that diabolic sanctus who didnt get a power from sparda got so strong. Heck arkham is proven to be stronger than Sanctus who didnt get any power from sparda.

 

[Maxnumb231]

Sanctus would be stronger then Arkham as he actually had the sparda where as Arkham only had the force edge echidna being stronger blob Arkham not sure

As for the saviour with Nero absorbed I'm not sure

The difference in that is Sanctus didnt get power up from the sparda DA. Arkham WHO actually went sparda DT seemed to be getting thd power itself.

 

[Silvervigilant]

I think that we should upgrade them already, i mean most people agree

 

[Dienomite22]

@Silvervigilant

No, not yet.Wait until more respond.

 

[Dark649]

Now that i think about it Nero has only a quarter of Sparda's blood, so it's possible that the Saviour is not really comparable to Sparda Devil Trigger Dante due to that.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Well, V stated that Nero could use the Devil Sword Sparda without problems

But yeah, I think just "6-C" seems better for Mission 18 Savior

 

[Dark649]

Ok.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

Has anything been accepted yet?

 

[Dienomite22]

Everyone knowledgable about DMC agrees with the revision or are neutral, only Matthew disagrees and Kep hasn't gave his opinion

 

[Ogbunabali]

Cal and Ant disagree, and Kep has disagreed about everything in the past so I think he disagrees with it as well.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Seeing as you guys are waiting for Kepe, have you messaged him? How about Cin as well?

 

[Dienomite22]

I've sent a message to Kep yesterday, just waiting on his response.In the last thread he seemed to be just looking at how it progressed, never gave his opinion on the tier upgrades, just little opinions here and there.

 

[ParadoxIndifferent]

There is this quite recent portuguese DMC discussion thread (Google Translate's English translation is screwy, but relatively understandable) i found while skimming Kep's history on another wiki. Might be worthy of taking into account.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So it seems like a disagreement? Kepe's arguments there do make sense to me.

 

[Dienomite22]

I need to get a direct comment from Kep on what he meant but based off what I've seen he thinks the demon world and human world were originally connected by portals and not originally 1 universe thus making DMC Mundus and Argosax merging feats only through portals.This can easy to disprove with the opening narration of the DMC3 manga and Argosax's entire goal but I'll just let Kep state his opinion here before countering it because I could be wrong on what he exactly means or is trying to get at.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I think that we should upgrade them already, i mean most people agree

Popularity does not necessarily mean an upgrade. I can't remember how many times my Marvel/DC CRTs were not accepted because Matt/a staff member disagrees.

Anyway, what's the evidence that the pocket dimension is Tier 3? It looks just 4-C (probably 4-A at best) to me. And that still seems outlierish.

 

[Sparda_20000000]

Argosax is the one with the tier 3 feat

Sanctus/the saviour are the ones with the tier 4 feat

 

[WindGodAcheron]

Trying to gauge a person's opinion based off of a nearly 2 month-old, Portuguese thread that is extremely badly translated by Google is an atrocious way of doing it at best. But as a native Portuguese speaker myself, there is no disagreement (except on the Mundus merging the universes issue, it seems)

Those arguments include the stuff about Argosax and portals, which were completely debunked, both in here and on said thread. Even on the Portuguese thread itself, he stopped arguing against the Argosax feat almost immediately.

 

[WindGodAcheron]

> I need to get a direct comment from Kep on what he meant but based off what I've seen he thinks the demon world and human world were originally connected by portals and not originally 1 universe

No, he did not subscribe to this. He doesn't contest the Demon World and Human World being originally one in the thread, and only proclaims that it doesn't scale to Mundus.

 

[Dienomite22]

@WindGodAcheron

Thanks for clearing that up.Looks like we still are waiting on Kep's input.

 

[Kepekley23]

I can give you Argosax. I refuse to engage on debating whether Mundus created a universe or not, it all depends on your opinion on Kamiya.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm firmly against Mundus's feat still. For the same reasons I've said before. Honestly we need to be more strict on these kinds of things, again as I said before. He does nothing with said dimension and it's out of nowhere just for a setting change. There's no mention of it at all barring Kamiya's tweet. Kamiya's tweet should be taken on the same level as JK Rowling's. Yes, I went there. Btw, correct me if I'm wrong on any of this as I'm only going off of what I hear. But from what I hear, I don't want it to be a basis of an upgrade.

Argosax is more believable but I still need more context as the stuff I read in the OP is vague as all heck.

None of the other stuff (the supporting feats) I believe at all. I'll address them in my next post.

P.S.: Honestly, consistent showings should matter far more on this site than it does. We abuse calling things the AoE fallacy so much that we don't take into account that maybe these characters aren't as strong as we want them to be.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Let's not get into "AoE fallacy" please. That could cause an issue we don't need in this thread. So I'm gonna have to stop you riiiight there...

 

[Ogbunabali]

Well the thing with that is, we have an on screen feat and WoG statement that it's a universe. With literally nothing contradicting it.

 

[Dienomite22]

Kamiya's statement isn't a main point regarding the Mundus feat, it's not mentioned in the OP at all.Mundus doesn't need to do anything with it for it to be a valid feat, his whole stick is making himself out to look like God which explains why he would create the dimension.By process of elimination the feat is creation and valid the only thing that's debatable is if you agree with Kamiya's WoG, if you do then 3-A , if you don't then it's 4-C at the absolutes of minimum.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I will remain neutral, but I am still vehemently against using Kamiya's tweet. However, what's the other WoG again?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Except the average power level of the series severely contradicting it. The feat in itself is barely a feat at that as we can't pin it down. Is it teleportation? An illusion? Is it a pocket dimension? If it is, is this just a visual effect in the pocket dimension? The only bearing on the feat is when one of our site members (yes, the universal statement was prompted by one of us) asked him about it. I don't see how this is different from the Vaati thing and the name bit is honestly a non-sequitur.

If you can find a statement in the game that said that Mundus created a dimension, I'll humbly stop arguing against you. Not something that can support it, not something that can be argued to mean it. A direct, irrefutable statement.

 

[Ogbunabali]

If you read the OP you'll see it's none of those things. And the average powerlevel is irrelevant when this is only concerning the God Tiers, and they have no anti feats, and every other feat they have done has been extremely casual.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Whether the feat is creation or not, it's still a massive outlier compared to the other feats.

 

[Dienomite22]

@The real cal howard

The OP explains how it's a creation feat, it isn't hard to pin down if you've played the games and know Mundus is the guy who loves creating things.We aren't talking about the average power level of the verse, this is all God Tiers and all of these feats come from them.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Again, what outlier? What other anti feats do they have that contradict this?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Casualness that lines up with the rest of the series. Said feat of Mundus, if it was legit, is also casual. The casual bit needs to line up with the rest of the stuff still unless there's evidence otherwise, like Mundus actually being said to do this stuff.

Also. All of Kirby's feats were casual. Didn't stop him from not scaling to Magolor when the latter was 3-A. Mega Lati@s are featless. They don't scale to keeping up with the Creation Trio.