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Zeekeeper, Antasma and Dreamy Bowser Upgrade #2nd Attempt

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Kevyn_S._de_Andrade

Kevyn_S._de_Andrade

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Hi everyone, it's me again. This thread is intended to be a continuation of this thread. It would be helpful if you read this topic first, because it would save me time to transcribe it.

Currently, this discussion should have supported the upgrade for both. Despite this, the reasons given for it to be were basically that there is no evidence that more than one person can have more than one universe in each dream, and could be the same dimension with a different theme.

Dreams and Dimensions in General

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Let me remind, in himself, every dream became in a real universe. That's also why Super Dimentio is currently 2-B, because every Mario-verse dream is a universe, although the case of Super Dimentio is different since it was going to destroy everything.

Wario, you did it! You saved the Future Dream for us! The fascinating dream of the universe continues!
In Mario & Luigi: Dream Team
We still have the point that they are in the Pi'illo Kingdom for thousands of years (Note: I'm taking this information from here and here), and surely several people were born and died in the mean time, and we must consider that all these people, like the present inhabitants, were also dreaming.

DRB said:
I don't believe there should be upgrade. There's nothing in the game that implies that more than one dream world can be concieved by the same person. For all we know, it could be the same world from the same person with different themes. [...]
Click to expand...
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Actually, there is.

Twice you have forced me to tear a dimensional rift...
The Zeekeeper... Who knew it could cross dimensions?!
~ Prince Dreambert​
In the battle of Luigi against Zeekeeper, Zeekeeper opened a dimensional rift for a road through which he was crossing dimensions. A little later it was shown that it was only Luigi's dream, so that there would not be every dream there would be a universe.

Each dream, as shown, may already have more than one dimension in itself, which in addition to showing that more than one person can generate a universe (contrary to the reason given for it not to be 2-B), that other universe It does not necessarily have to be a different dream, and can be part of the same dream.

Now, finally, I think that's all I have to say. Bai.
 
I definitely agree with this.

DRB had agreed with my reasoning of the Dreambeats scene as well, just that he was skeptical.

And if there's not only multiple Dream Worlds, but Dream Worlds interloping with others, I do think an "At least 2-C, likely 2-B" would be the best.

Oh, another thing.

Apparently, according to both Baroque Monsieur and Dreambert, the date that the Pi'illo Kingdom flourished dates back to an era.

And according to the Geologic Time Scale, an era takes up at least two periods.

A period, IIRC, takes up at least tens of milliond of years.

I do believe that if they have been dreaming for millions of years, make new dreams each time they dream, AND can interlope with one another...

Yeah, at least mention of a 2-B should be warranted.
 
Not to be rude, but the bumps are a little fast. Generally preferable to wait 24 hours between each bump.

But anyway, I agree with the upgrades, since all it takes is 1000 dreams to be 2-B. Though, it's best to wait for Dino Ranger Black's input.
 
@Medeus: Somebody here just wants to see and try if the Marioverse can be upgraded...

And 1000 dreams, with a dream = a whole universe, is actually just the max end of 2-C really. You have to be like 1001 and above to hit even 2-B really.
 
@DDM Do we have any rules for this here? I don't know exactly the range, but what was given here was a few hours.

@Cross It would be illogical if in ages Pi'illo Kingdom did not exceed the number of 1,000 dreams, I really do not think that this is somehow the high-end of 2-C.
 
@Kevyn: I'm just going by this wikias' system. Hitting 1000 dreams is just 2-C. Hitting just above that is what gets you 2-B.
 
Do you not read our Tier System between 2-C and 2-B? Cause it's there on the page unless you just forgot.
 
I? Yes, I read. I just thought your comment was about the tiers of Zee, Ant and DB. I didn't realize you were speaking about the system.
 
I was referring to how Medeus thought that 1000 dreams is enough to be 2-B when i was just correcting him of how very short it is from actually being 2-B.
 
@Kevyn Souza Oh yeah, I think that was more of a versus thread rule, so my apologies.

And, okay. I was just one number off, but at least I was close. But anyway, every Mario character's dream = a universe, it seems likely that there are more than 1001 universes. I could be wrong, but I'm fine either way and I still support the upgrade. @Ryu already informed Dino, so he'll be hear soon.
 
Just to contrast, my main point is Zeekeeper have crossed dimensions even being only in a dream of Luigi, so that a single dream already may possess multiple dimensions.
 
I mean, i'm not a expert but is not that the dimentions need to be the size of a real universe to count? Also in the video you linked it is clearly seen that the zeekeper uses a dimensional portal to try to escape from dreamy luigi and in the end they return to the same dimensional plane in which they were before, which can be implied that he simply use it to travel faster in the same dream, as of a wormhole It is, but i could be wrong.
 
Oh, and no, he did not return to the same dimension in "the end", not even in the same portal. Notice here that the way he used to go back to the world he was was basically opening another dimensional rift, he had to open a "portal inside the portal" to go back. That is, he did not reach the end of the portal, but decided to go back to where he came from.There is no way to say that the portal led to the same place. Dreambert clearly stated that he was crossing dimensions.

It is possible that what he was going through around the portal were the dimensions themselves, but I'm not sure. Anyway, what I can say is that there is another dimension at the end of the portal, and it is not the same dimension of the beginning (this dimension is probably in that luminous sphere there in the middle of the path).
 
Kevyn Souza said:
Note: I'm going to be a little busy, I have to leave now. If you can please don't close this thread at dawn, I thank you (Idk if you live on the other side of the world, but it's already night here, then...).
Click to expand...
Eh?!
 
While alot of this is true, I'm still going to decline on the upgrade. Even if we should believe more than one DW exists for a single person in the Pillo Kingdom, the problem still lies in how many there are.

See, with the Dream Depot from MP5, all the worlds are sourced from the dreams of the citzens from Mushroom Kingdom. We know that location is densely populated and is constantly expanding with certian installment of the franchise that takes place in it. With the knowledge of this and the average population of moderately populated countries, it's relatively easily to scale that there's over 1000 of them.

The Dreamstone, on the other hand, was stated that it's made up of dreams but we weren't even given a rough scale of how many. What's only confirmed that there's more than one Dream World and this thread, unfortunately, only supports that. Add in the fact the Dreamstone already existed before the battle with Antasma took place, which the Pillo Kingdom isn't as populated or less populated as a result of the said battle, and we can't be absolute that there's over 1000 of them to warranted a 2-B rating, even with the possibility that there's more than one dimension in a dream world.
 
Dino Ranger Black said:
While alot of this is true, I'm still going to decline on the upgrade. Even if we should believe more than one DW exists for a single person in the Pillo Kingdom, the problem still lies in how many there are.
See, with the Dream Depot from MP5, all the worlds are sourced from the dreams of the citzens from Mushroom Kingdom. We know that location is densely populated and is constantly expanding with certian installment of the franchise that takes place in it. With the knowledge of this and the average population of moderately populated countries, it's relatively easily to scale that there's over 1000 of them.

The Dreamstone, on the other hand, was stated that it's made up of dreams but we weren't even given a rough scale of how many. What's only confirmed that there's more than one Dream World and this thread, unfortunately, only supports that. Add in the fact the Dreamstone already existed before the battle with Antasma took place, which the Pillo Kingdom isn't as populated or less populated as a result of the said battle, and we can't be absolute that there's over 1000 of them to warranted a 2-B rating, even with the possibility that there's more than one dimension in a dream world.
Click to expand...
Agree.
 
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