• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Zeekeeper, Antasma and Dreamy Bowser Upgrade #2nd Attempt

Status
Not open for further replies.
And why could not we? It is very easy to reach this level, considering that Dream Stone and Dark Dtone have been there for a long time, and undoubtedly there were already more than 1,000 inhabitants during all the time they were there (which, when indicated, are at least thousands of years).
 
But how do we know that? I remember 100% the game and only 53 pi'illos(Dreambert included) can be rescued after the event.
 
Dino Ranger Black said:
But how do we know that? I remember 100% the game and only 53 pi'illos(Dreambert included) can be rescued after the event.
Click to expand...
Relativity ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡° )?
 
I don't see any difficulty as it throws more than a thousand dreams with a small number of people. Considering the number of 53 you said, 19 days would be more than enough for that number to be exceeded (53 × 19 = 1007). That is clear, considering that each one had a dream per night (which is not difficult to happen).

According to Broque, Zee Kingdom lasted an era, word that usually refers to a long period of time. In addition to that, the Zeekeeper's own profile says he is at least thousands of years old.

Edit: This number of days reduces a lot if I consider that each dream can already have multiple dimensions.
 
Indeed but the Dreamstone clearly doesn't accumulate it in a similar fashion to the Dream Depot. For all we know, it could be formed from a fixed amount and not in a daily fashion.
 
Well, I've had an exhausting day and I'm tired, I'm going to sleep now. I would appreciate it if this thread could stay open until tomorrow.
 
I don't think Dream Orbs are dreams, however. And what actually proves it's composed of at least 1000?
 
I honestly don't see why the Dream Orbs aren't dreams.

Each time Luigi goes to sleep, he has a dream. There's more evidence saying that the Dream Orbs are dreams than they aren't.

And also, the Dream Stone absorbs these, likely adding them to its mass. And what is the Dream Stone composed of? Dreams. It's literally stated as a solid manifestation of dreams.

If it's absorbing these, then they are undoubtedly dreams.

And what proves there's over 1000? Well, the fact that the Pi'illos have been around for, at least, thousands of years and been dreaming the entire time. Each night, they contribute another dream.

As Kevyn pointed out, it only takes 19 days for this to be 2-B. Then there's the fact that Dr. Snoozemore sleeps countless times throughout the game due to a "strange sleepy wavelength," which apparently affects everyone via Dream Points, and of course, the fact that Pi'illo Island has been under work and tourists have been coming in and out throughout the whole time.

What with how many NPCs are in this game, even if each one alone were to contribute only one dream each (which we've come to consensus to not be the case), then it'd still be at least approaching 2-B.
 
@Dino Ranger Black Do you think that "At least 2-C" would be a reasonable rating?
 
We don't know exactly how many dreams people can dream of in 1 day. Also some people go to sleep and may not dream of anything at all. That's why I suggested "At least 2-C, possibly 2-B"
 
Huh? What're those weird things?
~ Bowser​
SCREEEPS! The Dream Orbs...
~ Antasma​
Dream...Orbs?
~ Bowser​
These vill allow usto absorb energy from those who sleep. These Dream Orbs are the energy source that vill power the Dream Stone...
~ Antasma​
Dream Orbs are the energy of people's sleep, and that provides the energy of Dream Stone. They are literally dreams (as we know, Dream Stone is made of dreams).

@Adamjensen Actually, according to this link, most people have four to seven dreams a night. This would reduce the value of my calculation to 2-5 days. If I consider that each dream has at least two dimensions, this value could reduce to 1-3 nights.
 
You guys are still missing the main point, which is that we only know what's the Dreamstone is made of, not how many dream worlds or how many in general. This isn't the Dream Depot where it is a daily basis from a large population. For all we know, it could be form in a single day and not take in more dreams prior to the Dreambeats scheme with Antasma. We can't just assume how many dreams worlds that makes up the Dreamstone from the amount of days when we weren't given information in how long it took.

@Ant With that being said, "At least 2-C" would be fine but we already labelled it on everyone who applies.
 
But... that doesn't make sense.

We also can't really assume that the Dream Stone only takes in dreams when it wants to. We have no real evidence of that. It's far more likely that it takes in dreams daily—Dream Worlds are made each time someone sleeps in this game.

If Dream Worlds weren't made each time, then I could understand where you're coming from. But it's everytime they sleep.

And to be honest, the idea of the Dream Stone was likely inspired from the Dream Depot.
 
I have to leave now, I'll be back later. But just to know, is there something that at least remotely points out that Dream/Dark Stone dreams only last a day and disappear in the other?

DRB said:
Indeed but the Dreamstone clearly doesn't accumulate it [...]
Click to expand...
Where does this "clearly" come from?
 
Kevyn Souza said:
@Adamjensen Actually, according to this link, most people have four to seven dreams a night. This would reduce the value of my calculation to 2-5 days. If I consider that each dream has at least two dimensions, this value could reduce to 1-3 nights.
Click to expand...
You're right.
 
@Dino Ranger Black Okay. Do you wish to perform the edits? If so, which pages do you need unlocked?
 
You guys still don't understand.....we have absolutely no way to determine how many days it took to form the Dreamstone. Everything you suggested is just guessing. We don't know how many dreams it took to form the Dreamstone either nor was it stated it takes them in a daily basis. We weren't given an amount from any of these at all and we can't just assume it functions like the Dream Depot because like it or not, it's not the same despite both being dream themed. With an island with a significantly less population into the point a race was temporary extinct and no time span of the formation of the stone, who are we to say how it happened?

@Ant All the pages in mind have already been labelled as "At least 2-C" before this thread, so no edit would be necessary. Not sure about 2-B, though.
 
Okay, so lemme try to grasp what you're saying here...

Because we don't know how the Dream Stone was formed or how many dreams it took, nor do we know at what times it takes those dreams, then we simply have no way of saying how many dreams are in there... correct?

In that case, we also weren't given any remotely similar information for the Dream Depot either. I don't recall it ever saying that it takes dreams from everyone daily, nor do I remember it saying how many dreams or days it took to form the Dream Depot.

This makes no sense... These two are nearly the exact same yet rated so differently.

If the island and Pi'illos flourished for millions, heck, even just thousands of years, plenty of people should have contributed dreams. Enough so that the Dream Stone should be comparable to the Dream Depot.

And yet, we're missing such small information, so we assume that it doesn't count?

Again, I don't see much saying that's the way the Dream Stone works—it is only shown that it's a solid manifestation of dreams, and that it absorbs the dreams of others.

And if a new Dream World is made each and every time someone dreams, I just simply don't see the problem.

Furthermore, the Dream Depot is no different. So then, why are they rated so differently?
 
Again, the main problem is the lack of reliable information. We were given plenty of information with the Dream Depot from MP5. All the worlds are dreams sourced from the citzens from Mushroom Kingdom. We know that MK is densely populated (easily over an average population of a country which, of course, is in the million mark) and is constantly expanding with certian installment of the franchise that takes place in it. With the knowledge of this and the average population of moderately populated countries, it's relatively easily to scale that there's over 1000 of them. Futhermore, the Dream Depot isn't formed from dreams, it's a location where dreams are warp to. In other words, it already existed. And dreams do indeed gather in the Dream Depot everyday, said by the Star Spirits themselves.


The Dreamstone, however, has no such information. It's simply stated to be made up of dreams. So the most logical conclusion is that it's made from the dreams of pi'illos in Pi'illo Kingdom. But only 53 pi'illos can be found (Way less compared to even the lowest current population) and the island is significantly smaller than the Mushroom Kingdom, not that it matters since the Dreamstone was made before the tourist attraction. So even with the belief that one person can have more than 1 dream or that there's more than one dimension within a dream world, it's still significantly lower. It's radically different. The only thing in common is that they both hold Dream Worlds. At this point, we can only suggest "At Least 2-C". "Possibly 2-B" is likely but it's debatable at best.
 
I suppose Dino's statement is understandable.
 
Okay... thank you for the information, I wasn't aware of that from the Star Spirits.

Also, if it's only made from Pi'illos, and they have been around for, at least thousands of years, there has to be plenty more, as the Pi'illos do age, and likely die, as seen with the Elder. So there were likely more made.

Since there is a lot of debate behind it, is an "At least 2-C, possibly 2-B" okay with you?
 
@Dino Ranger Black Okay. So should we leave the profiles as they are, and close this thread?
 
Okay. Are any other clarifications needed in the profiles, to avoid later repeats of this thread?
 
I think so. Perhaps a note that clarifies the differences between the Dream Depot and the Dream Stone.

Because that was the root of both threads.
 
I do agree with what Adam proposed, since there's a lot of debate behind this.

Hey Dino, are you okay with a possibly 2-B? If not, that's fine, but with the large amount of debate behind it, I do believe it's reasonable.
 
@Ant

We don't need to change the profiles but people are suggesting at least a possibility rating which I might be ok with. Let me see what others have to say on it.
 
Metal Mario875 said:
I do agree with what Adam proposed, since there's a lot of debate behind this.
Hey Dino, are you okay with a possibly 2-B? If not, that's fine, but with the large amount of debate behind it, I do believe it's reasonable.
Click to expand...
Another reason why I agree with "At least 2-C, possibly 2-B" is because the Dream Stone can take dreams from each person living in the Pi'illo Kingdom. Not just 1 dream from each Pi'illo.

Also Pi'illos can dream more than once in their sleep and each dream they dream about is different to their other dreams.

 
@DRB Okay.
 
@Everyone Oh boy......this is incredibly embarassing. Remember what I said earlier........about Pi'illos being the only people who have inhabited Pi'iIllo Island before said location being making it the reason I oppose it? It turns out I was actually incredibly incorrect. On my way back home from work, while I was looking up Dream Team because of this thread, it turns out that Pi'llo weren't the only inhabitants. A race called Nommo are also natural inhabitants of the island and lived just as long. They were not affected by the incident that occurred (Likely because they weren't involved with the war against Antasma). It also turns out another species, (Likely Hooski) also inhabit the island around the same time Pi'llos as there were memorials of the Heroes of Buffness. I also didn't take account of the monsters that actually live on the island such as Mammoshaka, Torkscrew, and Groombas, with the latter being incredibly abundent.

Apparently, your information was correct, Kevyn Souza. I'm sorry, everyone. I didn't take account in any of this information or the one Kevyn laid here, due to how little some of these characters contribute to the main plot, as well as, how tired I was. With the current information of population of the natural dwellers in the island, the 2-B upgrade is actually valid now.
 
It's alright, man. There's no need to be embarrassed.

We were just as oblivious as you were.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

CloverDragon03
Super Mario Revision: What to Do About Dreams?
Replies
13
Views
2K
Iamunanimousinthat
Iamunanimousinthat
Dust_Collector
Dreamy Bowser Existence Erasure Justification
Replies
14
Views
1K
Dust_Collector
Dust_Collector
Accelerated_Evolution
  • Locked
Super Mario - Travel Speed VS Combat Speed
Replies
12
Views
1K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Ghengiroo115
  • Locked
Quick fix to Antasma's profile
Replies
30
Views
3K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Speedblitzer50
  • Locked
Bowser gets supernatural luck
Replies
25
Views
2K
DarkDragonMedeus
DarkDragonMedeus
Back
Top