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Yu-Gi-Oh Card Effect Revision

Infinite ATK obelisk is other thread, yes.

This is just for card effects being used in real life.

Please do read the thred before claiming we have not posted evidence on how that hax looks outlife the game like you did here: "

As for other hax, as interesting as Mirror Force, Magic Cylinder, Crush Card Virus, MST, Dark Hole, etc. are, I'm not sure how reasonable they would be to include without seeing how they act OUTSIDE of a duel."


Please, do not misrepresent our argument.
 
And, if you chose ot negate all effects of DM in Yugioh, you are flat out ignoring Novel Pyramid of Light, Season 4 and Season 5, not to mention all of the feats that have been linked here.


Sorry, but i do not find your conclusion reasonable.
 
I would appreciate you try to type out a complete post, rather than splitting it into multiple, please. It looks messy, & means I have to check alerts more, which means I may miss parts of your argument. It also means the thread approaches post limit faster, creating more busywork in making new threads & whatnot.


My mentioning of those was to indicate that if they haven't been used outside of a duel, then basing what they do on their card effects makes what they would do in a VsBattle have a lot of unanswered questions.

I have attempted to read the thread.

I read the Novel Pyramid of Light within this hour. Which card effects other than the Pyramid of Light, made by Anubis, & BESD could be argued as existing outside of the duel?

What card effects in Season 4 happened outside of a duel? Was the Seal of Orichalcos present? Was Dartz's influence or Orichalcos Soldiers -known to use the Seal for summoning, ala Yugi vs Soldier & Giygas- present?

What card effects in season 5 happened outside of a duel? IIRC, much of the Memory World was a game representing the distant past by Bakura or the like, & many of the powers & abilities shown aren't present outside of Orichalcos/Shadow Games.

It's great that Kaiba used Ring of Defense, & fused without Polymerization, but those are instances occuring in the same world where Tristan could magically conjure a Duel Disk, summon monsters & fly & a world that has been portrayed as a game managed by Bakura, IIRC. I don't think those circumstances are the norm.

Why would we assume that powers shown in the Memory World are also present in the real world?
 
It is 2 AM right now for me, so, i shall reply to this later.

I would appreactiate if you did read the thread before claiming the feats shown are not aplicable for hax.
 
Watching the videos....

Kaiba summoning would be Kaiba summoning in Millenium World like most others can do. The 2nd & 3rd dragon seem to be from Kisara & the Priest Seto Ba, & were sent into the 1st BEWD.

How Kaiba fused all 3... Or rather, got the spirits to go together, I don't see much explanation for how he ordered that. Kaiba seemed to know he was fusing them WITHOUT Polymerization, but Kaiba has always been someone greatly defiant of the existence of supernatural forces.

If he knew he could fuse them without Polymerization, then what convinced him he could do that, when Kaiba would be the last person to believe he had ALWAYS had magical powers? I would say his observations in Memory World told him he could fuse them.

And doing so required the spirits of 2 other people, the people who had the other 2 BEWDs. So odds are, making BEUD isn't something he can freely do outside of a Shadow Game, the Memory World, the Seal of Orichalcos, or in a Duel.


As for Atem fusing himself with BEUD, that at least seems to be explained by the presence of Millenium Items.

There is hax demonstrated, yes, but it's not hax the characters can use at any time, or in any place. Novel Pyramid of Light is made by the creator of Yu-Gi-Oh! & explains the inconsistency of the 8th Millenium Item.

The movie has that inconsistency present, making it contradictory with canon, & besides that, neither the author of the manga, nor the studio of the anime were involved. Movie Pyramid of Light isn't useable by VSBW canon standards.

@ProfessorKukui4Life, Yobobojojo, SomebodyData: For the purposes of thoroughness, I would greatly value your thoughts on my arguments as well. Do they seem reasonable? Do I understand canonicity correctly? My memory isn't perfect either, have I forgotten anything or gotten details wrong about anything from the manga or anime that I brought up? This isn't to dismiss you, Rapid. I just value input from all users, which you're already providing, so thank you.
 
Unforunately, Kukui is currently busy with IRL things, so he likely cannot respond.

I don't know about Kaiba, but it is made clear, in the anime, that Kaibs is beginning to believe in it. He even sees the gods as real things.

I can live with only Millenium Item users using the cards, but they can use it more often then you believe. Bakura's chains are proof of this.

I don't believe we are using the movie, so.

I agree on a certain level, but those with items definitely keep the hax.

There is also Capsule Monsters to think on.

Also, Imaginym, its no problem if your memeory is fuzzy. I have little memory of the details as well. From what I understand however, wasn't a good deal of what happened in the past changed? And didn't this game have a direct effect on future events, at least with Zorc?
 
@Yobobojojo:

Bakura has definitely used magic outside of duels. Summoned Man-Eater Bug, Morphing Jar (#1 I think) & used the much discussed Chain Energy. I don't deny that he can, & it seems like something he could do any time he has his Millenium Ring.

Fair enough. Although, assuming characters like Tristan, Kaiba, etc. can summon in the Millenium World, & never did so of their own power before, then doesn't that call into question their ability to do it independently in other scenarios with nothing else supporting it?

However, different Millenium Items do seem to grant different abilities. Not everyone with a Millenium Item can do ALL of reading minds, controlling minds, seeing the future, etc. What Millenium Item users have summoned monsters/used magic or trap outside of duels, & without forces other than their Millenium Items allowing them to do so? After all, as an example, if all 7 MI's users can summon, but 6 have only done so with outside infleunce beyond their MI, then could we really assume any MI user can do it without outside influences?

As for Capsule Monsters, is there actually a basis to include it? Again, AFAIK, Kazuki Takahashi wasn't involved, but unlike the PoM Movie, 1 of the main studios of the Yu-Gi-Oh! anime, Nihon Ad Systems was involved. Is NAS's involvement in the 4Kids-commissioned, produced & edited CM anime reason enough to implement its content?

As for Zorc, there may have been time muddling about, as you say, @Yobobojojo. Unfortunately, that'd need to be double checked, & my memory's foggy.

Thank you for the reply.
 
Should we make a profile for Dyson Sphere? I mean, it's probably 4-C/High 4-C via sheer size, and has a few hax, so.
 
No problem

I think summoning is done with near every Item user, or at least the ones we have with profiles.

I'm not sure why them not being able to do sans the items matters if it is standard equipmemt.

I believe so.

I'm pretty sure ancient agyptians could do it as well.

As for the earlier statement that we cannot use unseen cards, I vehemently disagree. We already decided that based on what the card is (a virus, or fire), what is seen in a duel is regarded as consistent, as chain energy did manifest as chains. It can be used.

No problem
 
Well, as long as the ability is listed as being something they can do WITH items, & something they can't do if it gets stolen/relocated/destroyed in a fight....

But I don't remember when say, Pegasus or Marik summoned when they WEREN'T dueling & they weren't in the MW or in an area affected by Orichalcos.

My problem with that is then we run into problems like: Is the fire hot enough to affect the opponent? What symptoms DOES the virus 'cause, in the event that the opponent may resist some of them? (Ex: Virus that tears apart vs an amorphous being, or virus that kills via sheer pain vs something that doesn't feel pain.) "It's a virus they can spawn that kills things within a certain range of power.", IMHO, leaves a lot of questions that makes its use ambiguous. I suppose it's ACCURATE to include as we're an indexing site, but IMHO, there's a fine line between a vaguely defined power, & not a power at all.

As for Dyson Sphere, if my memory of it in the anime serves, Dyson Sphere was large, & floating, but immobile. Also, it might be PIS but its appearance was within a Field Sphere, so, IIRC, it looked big enough to fit in the stadium.

Worse yet, if it is immobile, maybe it has the AP of the star, but IIRC, for the energy output of a star, stuff like our sun's constant energy output is something like Tier 6 or such. I'm also not sure if it had physicality or was "real" in that duel -appeared in Zexal, which uses VR with pseudo-scouters to view them, often- but another Number monster did drain its energy at one point. Some Heraldry/Heraldic Beast thing, IIRC.

Also, I think Dyson Sphere has some upgraded/alternate forms. 1 Chaos XYZ form, IIRC.
 
at this point, fter all the scans, clips and time frames ive provided i think we can all agree this is an effort to have Ygo characters lose by getting their magic or duel disk stolen/relocated/destroyed in battle for easy wins.

I must remind you there are cards that negate magic and stops other magic from affecting them.

As long you agree with Yugi/Kaiba/Etc being abke to protect their shit with their magic card hax, i guess we can come to an eventual agreemnt after i deal with your proofless assumptions.
 
Zexal and 5ds is a whole othwr boat

I would assume it is on the level of the other magic, and the disease causes death based on what I've gathered. Theres not much more to say. Its exactly what it looks like it does

Marik used magic to destroy some ronots IIRC
 
RapidMotorcycle19 said:
at this point, fter all the scans, clips and time frames ive provided i think we can all agree this is an effort to have Ygo characters lose by getting their magic or duel disk stolen/relocated/destroyed in battle for easy wins.

I must remind you there are cards that negate magic and stops other magic from affecting them.

As long you agree with Yugi/Kaiba/Etc being abke to protect their shit with their magic card hax, i guess we can come to an eventual agreemnt after i deal with your proofless assumptions.
Click to expand...
@Rapid

Calm down. This isnt some conspiracy, and I doubt people would know to do that in battle
 
And just dismissing unseen cards is an obvious attempt at downplaying them it hurts.

All cards shown and unseen in "real life combat" are made out of the same cardboard.

And, this is anime Yugi, which scales to all animated media, hich includes capsule monsters.


My bare mininum proposal is having Item Users have access to every single card they have ever had on their decks as hax and magic users scale to them but be somewhat more vulnerable to having their magic reubicated if they can go thru the magoc card/trap card hax that negates magic effects.
 
I still agree with Data's original prposal, though I personally believe addinf a memory world key is not against the rules
 
I don't care about the outcome of most VsBattles. I'm more here on the basis of arguing for what my mind says is accurate. Ambiguities should be cleared up, & all sides approached.

And yes, I too wish Marik's electricity manipulation from around the end of the Virtual World/Noah Saga would get calc'd, too. He's also used Telekinesis, IIRC, against Tea, & it can seemingly inflict paralysis -don't quote me, foggy memory- & I like that it has such versatility. IMHO, the Millenium Rod is a great weapon.

But I can remember Battle City's anime quite well, IMHO, compared to other parts of Yu-Gi-Oh! Marik dueled a lot, but he didn't use his cards outside of duels much.

Nor did Ishizu. Or Pegasus. Or Shadi.

Yugi & Bakura have used cards outside duels, yes. But for Yugi, BESD being used outside a duel is a... point of contention, it seems like. Celtic Guardian & most Legendary Dragons were used when Orichalcos was involved. A few other monsters were used in Memory World.

Bakura is the only MI user I can recall using his cards outside of duels to summon/use their effects. (Excluding uses like Kaiba's card shurikens that can cut into & jam guns, but he ain't a MI user anyway.)
 
I BESD is clearly used outside the game though, even if it didnt have it's effect

People like priest Seto and Atem would have it however
 
Fine, Data' s proposal.

But... 1.-Magic Users get a form where they can use their cards, 2.-no seal of orichalchos 3.- card effects who instantly destroy are changed tl what the do to kill 4.-Item users are 100% confirmed for users for it on a dark game.
 
Dyson Sphere is actually larger than the sun (in fact, I am pretty sure that the star located inside it IS the sun or at least a celestial body of comparable size). And Number 9 and C9's attack speed would probably be at least FTL+

Speaking of Numbers, Number 107's profile is kind of bad.
 
Im just waiting to see if they go along with the conclusion above so we can at least end this thread and just agree on what the abilities will be.
 
Just swap out game mechanics for what is een in the card, give Ra one hit kill and dura negation in pheonix mode and we're fine
 
If you mean what Capsule Monsters stuff.... Given it being produced, commissioned & edited by 4Kids, it has little connection to the main anime other than being in the same franchise and sharing an animation studio.

Supposedly, it takes place between Dawn of the Duel & KC Grand Championship. I would say its ability to mix with a main anime canon is dubious.

As such, I think that Capsule Monsters stuff should have a separate key. That said, I'm a bit tired to go into more detail on the other reasons behind my current stance.
 
So, is their a relative agreement, or is more discussion needed? Furthermore, is a Memory World key viable?
 
Memory world for Magic Users like kaiba and Joey.

And, i really dont get what the big issue is with 4kids when Anime Yugi himself is based on noncanon material to the manga

The Japanese anime itself has various directors and it is only based on the manga, Takahashi had no involvement in the direction the anime went. (Exept Dsod, which is why its cnaon to the manga.)
 
We should use the anime effects of the card, not the official ones of the OCG/TCG release. Both can be found on Yu-gi-oH wiki.
 
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