Yu-Gi-Oh Content Revisions Steamrolling

[Zencha9]

It seems like SomebodyData, Ogbunabali, and Elizhaa have reached an agreement here.

i mean sure they reached some sort of an agreement but ignored half of the arguments presented and it's not like i don't have some staff on my side

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, so what do they still have to evaluate then, and which staff members agree with you?

 

[Zencha9]

Okay, so what do they still have to evaluate then, and which staff members agree with you?

what needs to be done is mostly elaborating on @Ogbunabali 's interpretation as in elaborating on the "what ifs" and fixing the contradictions that come from said interpretation
@Confluctor seems to share the same view i hold and that being the elaboratiion part i mentioned above
@DarkGrath seems to lean on my side but they need more elaboration and the opinion of a yugioh knowledgeable memeber to be 100% sure
@KingTempest agrees with my interpretation but he hasn't given his opinion on the new posts about super poly scaling

edit: also @SomebodyData shouldn't count since he is the opposition

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. It obviously severely complicates things if several staff members support each side.

@SomebodyData @Zencha9

Can each of you explain your side of the discussion here as they currently stand please? After that, I can ask the previously helpful staff members in this thread to comment here again.

 

[Zencha9]

Okay. It obviously severely complicates things if several staff members support each side.

@SomebodyData @Zencha9

Can each of you explain your side of the discussion here as they currently stand please? After that, I can ask the previously helpful staff members in this thread to comment here again.

long story short we're discussing if yubel scales to super poly& the fusion god or not i already explained my position to why yubel should scale and the inconsistentes that would get brought up if yubel doesn't scale here and here

 

[Antvasima]

We preferably need a single well-structured posts that properly explains the issues here from you.

 

[Zencha9]

We preferably need a single well-structured posts that properly explains the issues here from you.

the issues or contradictions in this case would come from judai/jaden being there

as explained here in yubel's perspective "everything" would end so there's no possible way for her to teleport or bfr herself and jaden out of the explosion since again everything would get nuked
and this brings up the other issue of jaden surviving jaden is just a normal human with no regenerative properties you can argue that yubel would save him since she has mid godly regen but as explained here yubel would only be a part not his entire soul nor is he part of her soul and she doesn't have any resurrection powers to bring judai back


there's also other point @Ogbunabali made and that is "there's too many what if" but he didn't elaborate on how many what ifs are there and again yubel stating that the explosion would end all of existence heavily narrows that down
so i'm left asking questions since no one seems to care about the plot or does it seem like anyone is trying to fix or try to answer these issues

 

[LordGriffin1000]

I simply just don't have the knowledge on the series to properly evaluate the feat myself and yes, the Yu-Gi-Oh profiles are... not helpful.

And it seems LordGriffin might have misunderstood what Zencha was saying, so we should wait for him to come back and respond - when possible.

I don't believe I did. I was referring to Yubel being 2-C in statistics because of the whole duel spirit empowered thing.

Regardless. I'm fine with 2-C Durability to be honest if I'm reading Zencha9's comments correctly. An explosion was going to happen and it makes no sense for her to want Jaden all to herself but then destroy both of them along with everything else. So it's clear Yubel planned on herself and Jaden surviving (2-C durability Jaden soul?).

 

[Zencha9]

I simply just don't have the knowledge on the series to properly evaluate the feat myself and yes, the Yu-Gi-Oh profiles are... not helpful.

I don't believe I did. I was referring to Yubel being 2-C in statistics because of the whole duel spirit empowered thing.

Regardless. I'm fine with 2-C Durability to be honest if I'm reading Zencha9's comments correctly. An explosion was going to happen and it makes no sense for her to want Jaden all to herself but then destroy both of them along with everything else. So it's clear Yubel planned on herself and Jaden surviving (2-C durability Jaden soul?).

Jaden was covered in her spirit energy aura it's the reason why he can fly

 

[Antvasima]

Can each of you explain your side of the discussion here as they currently stand please? After that, I can ask the previously helpful staff members in this thread to comment here again.

We preferably need a single well-structured posts that properly explains the issues here from you.

the issues or contradictions in this case would come from judai/jaden being there

as explained here in yubel's perspective "everything" would end so there's no possible way for her to teleport or bfr herself and jaden out of the explosion since again everything would get nuked
and this brings up the other issue of jaden surviving jaden is just a normal human with no regenerative properties you can argue that yubel would save him since she has mid godly regen but as explained here yubel would only be a part not his entire soul nor is he part of her soul and she doesn't have any resurrection powers to bring judai back


there's also other point @Ogbunabali made and that is "there's too many what if" but he didn't elaborate on how many what ifs are there and again yubel stating that the explosion would end all of existence heavily narrows that down
so i'm left asking questions since no one seems to care about the plot or does it seem like anyone is trying to fix or try to answer these issues

Thank you.

Would you be willing to do the same @SomebodyData ? Currently the staff consensus seems to lean towards agreeing with Zencha.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

I have watched the series and I do recall something like that being a plot point, so Super Polymerization merging the 12 dimensions and summoning the Super Fusion God and destroying the 12 dimensions in the process seems valid to me. Yubel needing the power to allow Judai to survive this makes sense since it is the fusion process which is causing this and the Super Fusion God would have appeared once this process was completed, so Yubel wouldn't have been able to use its power before that happened. Duelists enhancing the power of the cards they use makes sense but I'm not sure about cards enhancing the duelist.

 

[Zencha9]

I have watched the series and I do recall something like that being a plot point, so Super Polymerization merging the 12 dimensions and summoning the Super Fusion God and destroying the 12 dimensions in the process seems valid to me. Yubel needing the power to allow Judai to survive this makes sense since it is the fusion process which is causing this and the Super Fusion God would have appeared once this process was completed, so Yubel wouldn't have been able to use its power before that happened. Duelists enhancing the power of the cards they use makes sense but I'm not sure about cards enhancing the duelist.

as explained and visually shown here humans do get amplified by emotions because honest (the character who states this) is talking about emotion amps in relation to darkness being amped
also the thing that further supports this is KAs(monsters) or the summoning of KAs since you summon them by using your own BA(spirit/mind/duel energy)and some humans do get amped by emotions for example yugi restorning atem's BA and johan restoring judai's energy ( 1 , 2 )

and to further clear it without a doubt that humans do scale to monsters (or at least their energy scales to monsters)
here is the explanation of shadow games as everyone knows shadow games are replication of ancient egyptian ka fights as shown in the scans bellow of a sorcerer and pegasus fighting with tablets and as explained and shown here the monsters are born from one's mind energy so you would have to be as strong as the monster to summon it otherwise you'll lose all of your mind energy(BA) and die
( 1 , 2 )

 

[Nehz_XZX]

as explained and visually shown here humans do get amplified by emotions because honest (the character who states this) is talking about emotion amps in relation to darkness being amped
also the thing that further supports this is KAs(monsters) or the summoning of KAs since you summon them by using your own BA(spirit/mind/duel energy)and some humans do get amped by emotions for example yugi restorning atem's BA and johan restoring judai's energy ( 1 , 2 )

and to further clear it without a doubt that humans do scale to monsters (or at least their energy scales to monsters)
here is the explanation of shadow games as everyone knows shadow games are replication of ancient egyptian ka fights as shown in the scans bellow of a sorcerer and pegasus fighting with tablets and as explained and shown here the monsters are born from one's mind energy so you would have to be as strong as the monster to summon it otherwise you'll lose all of your mind energy(BA) and die
( 1 , 2 )

So, humans are capable of outputting energy via their emotions and minds that scales to the cards? We aren't talking about them being physically on that level? Would we consider them capable of using that energy outside of a game or when they aren't using cards?

 

[Zencha9]

So, humans are capable of outputting energy via their emotions and minds that scales to the cards? We aren't talking about them being physically on that level? Would we consider them capable of using that energy outside of a game or when they aren't using cards?

yeah none of the humans can physically use that power (at least not that i know of) they can only exert such an energy with monsters/KAs unlike monsters like yubel
humans can use that energy since they created the spirit world without duels at ancient times but it's not really useful like sure they can genrate energy but they can't use it unless they are in a mind space like shadow games spirit world etc

 

[Nehz_XZX]

yeah none of the humans can physically use that power (at least not that i know of) they can only exert such an energy with monsters/KAs unlike monsters like yubel
humans can use that energy since they created the spirit world without duels at ancient times but it's not really useful like sure they can genrate energy but they can't use it unless they are in a mind space like shadow games spirit world etc

Okay, so we assume for Yubel's case that she is perfectly capable of making use of all that energy?

 

[Zencha9]

Okay, so we assume for Yubel's case that she is perfectly capable of making use of all that energy?

yeah since she is a spirit she can already use that energy for example she pushed and overpowered the sacred beasts with her spirit energy

 

[Nehz_XZX]

yeah since she is a spirit she can already use that energy for example she pushed and overpowered the sacred beasts with her spirit energy

Okay, that does make sense.

 

[Zencha9]

nice i was gonna bring up how she can absorb darkness and how super poly is made of darkness but that won't be needed

 

[Nehz_XZX]

nice i was gonna bring up how she can absorb darkness and how super poly is made of darkness but that won't be needed

Yeah, I do recall scans of Yubel wanting to use darkness to recover. As for Super Polymerization being made of darkness, I recall negative emotions being a major factor for it.

 

[Zencha9]

Yeah, I do recall scans of Yubel wanting to use darkness to recover. As for Super Polymerization being made of darkness, I recall negative emotions being a major factor for it.

yea darkness is an umbrella term for alot of shiz in ygo

 

[Nehz_XZX]

yea darkness is an umbrella term for alot of shiz in ygo

I guess it is.

 

[Zencha9]

yea but in generally refers to evil thoughts or energy example being
zorc, orichalcos god, ener-d and earthbounds etc

 

[Nehz_XZX]

yea but in generally refers to evil thoughts or energy example being
zorc, orichalcos god, ener-d and earthbounds etc

Okay, it helps that I do in fact remember all of these examples.

 

[N_Kardashev]

ok, zenchas stuff fra

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out, Nehz.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Thank you for helping out, Nehz.

You're welcome.

 

[Elizhaa]

I guess I see your points. It's that while dualist's energy doesn't scale physically it could still scale to AP since they could create a world collectively; Yubel would scale to the energy for 2-C since it's a monster that can use the energy?

 

[Zencha9]

I guess I see your points. It's that while dualist's energy doesn't scale physically it could still scale to AP since they could create a world collectively; Yubel would scale to the energy for 2-C since it's a monster that can use the energy?

yeah as shown here yubel could use the spirit energy to overpower opponents unlike humans who exert that power via a spirit/Ka ( 1 )

 

[Antvasima]

So if Zencha's arguments end up being accepted here, which the consensus currently seems to lean towards, what would we need to do here? Should any statistics be changed or better clarified?

 

[Zencha9]

So if Zencha's arguments end up being accepted here, which the consensus currently seems to lean towards, what would we need to do here? Should any statistics be changed or better clarified?

more elaboration on how yubel's dura scales and adding the spirit energy scaling as a new reasoning
i was gonna bring all of this up in my big yugioh overhaul but threads like these always get in the way

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Can you elaborate please?

 

[Zencha9]

Okay. Can you elaborate please?

i would add more scans for yubel's dura being scaled to super poly like how super poly would end everything and how she was absolutely sure that she and judai would survive the explosion
as for the spirit energy part i would add a whole new reasoning for yubel's AP and how card users and cards amplify each other and thus yubel would scale to super poly and the fusion god's energy

 

[Antvasima]

i would add more scans for yubel's dura being scaled to super poly like how super poly would end everything and how she was absolutely sure that she and judai would survive the explosion
as for the spirit energy part i would add a whole new reasoning for yubel's AP and how card users and cards amplify each other and thus yubel would scale to super poly and the fusion god's energy

Okay. I am afraid that I do not properly understand the context though.

@Ogbunabali @Confluctor @DarkGrath @KingTempest @Nehz_XZX @SomebodyData

Is this acceptable to you?

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Okay. I am afraid that I do not properly understand the context though.

@Ogbunabali @Confluctor @DarkGrath @KingTempest @Nehz_XZX @SomebodyData

Is this acceptable to you?

I do believe that Super Polymerization's capability of fusing the 12 dimensions and destroying them in the process as well as Yubel's ability to survive that alongside Judai is valid. The mutual amplification of card users and cards should be fine as long as it is clearly clarified that regular humans can't use it physically and that they can't use it outside of special circumstances like shadow games and being in the spirit world.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out. It is appreciated.

 

[Nehz_XZX]

Okay. Thank you for helping out. It is appreciated.

You're welcome.

 

[Zencha9]

Okay. I am afraid that I do not properly understand the context though.

@Ogbunabali @Confluctor @DarkGrath @KingTempest @Nehz_XZX @SomebodyData

Is this acceptable to you?

seems kinda weird to link them to an extremely oversimplified version of my arguments that was made for the sake of basic understanding when most of them already agreed with the same reasoning earlier

 

[KingTempest]

Personally don't think I'm the best qualified to evaluate this further, as yugioh isn'y my cup of tea

 

[SomebodyData]

the issues or contradictions in this case would come from judai/jaden being there

as explained here in yubel's perspective "everything" would end so there's no possible way for her to teleport or bfr herself and jaden out of the explosion since again everything would get nuked
and this brings up the other issue of jaden surviving jaden is just a normal human with no regenerative properties you can argue that yubel would save him since she has mid godly regen but as explained here yubel would only be a part not his entire soul nor is he part of her soul and she doesn't have any resurrection powers to bring judai back


there's also other point @Ogbunabali made and that is "there's too many what if" but he didn't elaborate on how many what ifs are there and again yubel stating that the explosion would end all of existence heavily narrows that down
so i'm left asking questions since no one seems to care about the plot or does it seem like anyone is trying to fix or try to answer these issues

There is one tiny issue that ends up breaking this narrative. Aside from the fact that Jaden fuses with Yubel prior to the explosion, which would mean he would have the regen to come back from this- you made it so that the superfusion wouldn't affect all of existence and just the twelve dimensions.

In fact, you added it to the page of Yubel:

"Note: Neo space, Gravekeeper dimension, and the World of Darkness are not considered as parts of the 12 dimensions due to having no statements of saying such and because it contradicts the story and causes many plot holes."

You would have to acknowledge your reasoning for the upgrade the original thread is incorrect in order to argue this.

 

[SomebodyData]

Thank you.

Would you be willing to do the same @SomebodyData ? Currently the staff consensus seems to lean towards agreeing with Zencha.

From what I'm reading, I think they agree with the 2-C rating for the explosion, but not necessarily with the scaling, like for example:

"I guess I see your points. It's that while dualist's energy doesn't scale physically it could still scale to AP since they could create a world collectively; Yubel would scale to the energy for 2-C since it's a monster that can use the energy?" - Elizhaa

Similar to DarkGrath's point.

Currently, Zencha's been arguing it would scale physically so that wouldn't work with what's being said.

Or how Nehz_XZX's agreement hinges on Super Poly being based on Yubel's spirit energy- but it been well established Super Poly was thanks to preparation through the absorption of many souls into the card, not just Yubel's energy.

Not to mention, most of the staff already agree with my 5-B, 2-C with Super Poly suggestion anyways.