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Yu-Gi-Oh! Character Scaling

GoldenGangStar5

GoldenGangStar5

120
32
This is a follow up thread to this one: https://vsbattles.com/threads/yu-gi-oh-gx-the-12-dimensions.118331/

Now that we've moved some characters to 2-C, (Season 3 and 4 Jaden/Judai with Super Polymerization, Yubel with Super Polymerization) I wanted to discuss which characters scale to them. We did go over it a little bit in the 12 Dimensions thread, but we all agreed that the subject deserved its own thread. So far, We've come up with this list:

  • Yugi - Stated to have cards with more spiritual energy than Judai's
  • Kaiba - Scales to Yugi
  • Joey - Scales to Yugi
  • Yami Bakura / Zorc - Scales to Yugi
  • Johan/Jesse - Rainbow Dragon was capable of affecting all dimensions, making it comparable to Super Polymerization. A crystal beast - one of Rainbow Dragon's components - was able to open up the dimensions in his duel with Ryo (Episode 128, 16:30)
  • Light of Destruction Saio/Sartorius - Light of Destruction should be on par with Nightshroud, who is at least 2-C
  • Ryo/Zane - Was able to open the dimensions in his duel with Johan (Episode 128, 16:30), able to duel on even terms with Dark Rainbow Dragon in another dimension while severely weakened from a heart disease and only lost because of his own effect.
  • Edo/Aster - Affected the entire cosmology in his duel (I'm not sure which duel specifically, this was brought up in ther 12 Dimsensions thread so I thought it was worth mentioning), Light of Destruction Bloo-D / Plasma scales to LoD Saio
  • The Signers - Judai was threatened by a weaker Stardust Dragon than when Yusei controlled it, Luna was able to defeat a Dark Signer empowered by one of the 12 dimensions, the other signers scale to her.
  • Dark Signers - Scale to the Signers
  • Paradox - Controlled Malefic Rainbow Dragon, Malefic Cyber End Dragon, Malefic Stardust Dragon, etc.
  • Aporia - Scale to Paradox
  • Z-One - Scale to Paradox
There are probably way more characters that this scales to as well, but I figured we should start with the ones I have an actual argument for. And again, just like in the 12 Dimensions thread, lets try and keep this civil.

Also, I don't have the energy to get all of the scans at once lol. I can find them on a case by case basis instead of frontloading them all here.
(Characters that have been struck through have been already scaled and no longer need to be discussed)
 
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I agree with most of who scales. Also you are very confused. There is a very considerable gap between Yusei, Judai, and Yugi. BBT having them having similar dueling skill doesn't help this whatsoever.

Yugi was considered to be even more powerful than Yusei and Judai during the BBT. Paradox directly singled him out as the biggest threat in the group. This is again during the Battle City Era of Yugi because they just referenced he won Battle City. They also refer to him in BBT as the most powerful duelist to have ever wielded a deck, both by narration, and in 5Ds. Considering Yusei had the Full Crimson Dragon as back-up, there is really nothing saying at all that the 3 are comparable to each other. Especially when we see Judai flopping to an Stardust Dragon that was away from it's actual source of power.

How they did in the duel doesn't matter when while their skills are comparable, that doesn't translate well to actualized spiritual power, and considering everything we know, the scale goes like this:
Yami Yugi >>> S1 Signers [Stardust didn't get any stronger until it evolved into his Shooting Star self] >>> Weakened Stardust (Bodied him worse than Nightshroud) >> S4 Judai.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
I agree with most of who scales. Also you are very confused. There is a very considerable gap between Yusei, Judai, and Yugi. BBT having them having similar dueling skill doesn't help this whatsoever.

Yugi was considered to be even more powerful than Yusei and Judai during the BBT. Paradox directly singled him out as the biggest threat in the group. This is again during the Battle City Era of Yugi because they just referenced he won Battle City. They also refer to him in BBT as the most powerful duelist to have ever wielded a deck, both by narration, and in 5Ds. Considering Yusei had the Full Crimson Dragon as back-up, there is really nothing saying at all that the 3 are comparable to each other. Especially when we see Judai flopping to an Stardust Dragon that was away from it's actual source of power.

How they did in the duel doesn't matter when while their skills are comparable, that doesn't translate well to actualized spiritual power, and considering everything we know, the scale goes like this:
Yami Yugi >>> S1 Signers [Stardust didn't get any stronger until it evolved into his Shooting Star self] >>> Weakened Stardust (Bodied him worse than Nightshroud) >> S4 Judai.
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Good to know. I'm mostly just echoing what other people were saying in the other thread, I'm not too familiar with BBT. Also, who do you think doesn't scale?
 
Just wanted to say that the sacred beasts scale to neos due to being the only monsters with strong enough energy alongside rainbow dragon to send everyone home
Neos scales to Saiou empowered LoD
 
Zencha9 said:
Just wanted to say that the sacred beasts scale to neos due to being the only monsters with strong enough energy alongside rainbow dragon to send everyone home
Neos scales to Saiou empowered LoD
Click to expand...
So if Neos, who could send everyone home from another dimension, scales to LoD Saio, wouldn't that make them both 2-C?
 
Everything's looking pretty unanimous so far, but I want to wait to hear what character's Existential thinks don't scale
 
I pretty much agree with what I've seen throughout the thread, but is there any way to reasonably scale Joey or Kaiba to Yugi as well?

I know post-Battle City Yugi gets 2-C due to all the statements that back it up in GX and 5ds, but do Kaiba and Joey's performances against Yugi/Marik mean they could scale to this at all?

Or would that be another discussion altogether?
 
OverlordDonnelly said:
I pretty much agree with what I've seen throughout the thread, but is there any way to reasonably scale Joey or Kaiba to Yugi as well?

I know post-Battle City Yugi gets 2-C due to all the statements that back it up in GX and 5ds, but do Kaiba and Joey's performances against Yugi/Marik mean they could scale to this at all?

Or would that be another discussion altogether?
Click to expand...
That's another discussion but blue-eyes scales to the god cards
Red-eyes is kinda weird but i'll probably find some bullshit to scale him to dark magician or somewhere in these these tiers
 
Zencha9 said:
That's another discussion but blue-eyes scales to the god cards
Red-eyes is kinda weird but i'll probably find some bullshit to scale him to dark magician or somewhere in these these tiers
Click to expand...
I mean, Atticus was able to duel Yusuke/Nightshroud with Red Eyes, but I don't know if thats enough to put him on par with Johan or Judai, since they actually beat Yusuke
 
Zencha9 said:
Ye red-eyes is pretty weird
Click to expand...
The reason I felt like it was worth bringing it up (especially in Joey/Red-Eyes' case), was because for all intents and purposes, Joey was essentially one move away from defeating Yami Marik before succumbing to the effects of the shadow game. That means his dueling spirit is at least comparable, right?

I figured that holding out that long and nearly winning against an antagonist that was fairly comparable to Battle City Yugi, might justify his scaling. But I know that long backscaling chains can be frowned upon.
 
Oh nevermind in capsule monsters ( which is canon to the anime) joey uses red-eyes's armor and fights yugi in the dark magician armor and they fight equally so yeah
the armor is just using the monster's powers so the original monsters scale
 
OverlordDonnelly said:
The reason I felt like it was worth bringing it up (especially in Joey/Red-Eyes' case), was because for all intents and purposes, Joey was essentially one move away from defeating Yami Marik before succumbing to the effects of the shadow game. That means his dueling spirit is at least comparable, right?

I figured that holding out that long and nearly winning against an antagonist that was fairly comparable to Battle City Yugi, might justify his scaling. But I know that long backscaling chains can be frowned upon.
Click to expand...
That is also valid
 
I mean no offense, but are we sure capsule monsters is... reliable, for lack of a better word?

To clarify, the filler arcs for Yu Gi Oh, the original series especially, aren't exactly known for being consistent.
 
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So I'm gonna bring up Bakura again, in particular when he's running around as Zorc in the memory world. From what I'm gathering here, Yugi scales due to the god cards, correct me if I'm wrong, so wouldn't Bakura as Zorc also be affected by this?
 
JohnConquest1 said:
So I'm gonna bring up Bakura again, in particular when he's running around as Zorc in the memory world. From what I'm gathering here, Yugi scales due to the god cards, correct me if I'm wrong, so wouldn't Bakura as Zorc also be affected by this?
Click to expand...
Yugi doesn't scale due to the god cards, he scales due to BBT, which outright states he is stronger than Yusei and Judai. Then again, with how insane the scaling is thanks to that movie Bakura might actually scale as well. I'm just not sure how.
 
Also the Graduation Duel which takes place post-BBT states Yugi as the most powerful duelist outright, most powerful spiritual Deck, and if you want to count non-canon he's stated as the Most Powerful Protagonist in the Series way into Arc-V
 
Also BBT is directly canon. Capsule Monsters you can debate , but Bonds Beyond Time has story elements that ties into 5Ds and they constantly reference the movie. So it is in fact canon.

And yes it should be usable as it's consistent with Konami's actual views on how strong the Protagobists are to each other.
 
GoldenGangStar5 said:
I mean no offense, but are we sure capsule monsters is... reliable, for lack of a better word? Same with BBT for that matter

To clarify, the filler arcs for Yu Gi Oh, the original series especially, aren't exactly known for being consistent.
Click to expand...
Yeah they don't break the story or cause any contradictions so they should be fine to use
they're actually rather consistent since yugi in both DM GX and 5D's was considered as the strongest duelist to ever exist
And red-eyes was considered somewhat compareable to blue-eyes but while blue-eyes beats him in power red-eyes has more potential and thus it's pretty consistent to scale him to dark magician who is weaker than blue-eyes but in the same level of power
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
Also BBT is directly canon. Capsule Monsters you can debate , but Bonds Beyond Time has story elements that ties into 5Ds and they constantly reference the movie. So it is in fact canon.

And yes it should be usable as it's consistent with Konami's actual views on how strong the Protagobists are to each other.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I just went back and checked. Not gonna lie, the fact that BBT is canon is insane to me, but I can't really argue. BTW, I also just checked the final duel of YuGiOh GX, and so far it isn't said that Yugi's entire deck has the most spiritual energy, just the god cards.
 
Thats pretty much the whole reason he sent Judai back in time, subtitles I have here also see Present Yugi claim that the past version of himself is "the strongest of all duelists". When he was with Atem, had the God Cards, but before the Pharaoh's Memory Arc.

Edit: Crunchyroll subs has it as "The Ultimate Duelist"
 
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GoldenGangStar5 said:
Yeah, I just went back and checked. Not gonna lie, the fact that BBT is canon is insane to me, but I can't really argue. BTW, I also just checked the final duel of YuGiOh GX, and so far it isn't said that Yugi's entire deck has the most spiritual energy, just the god cards.
Click to expand...
It's also says that regular yugi has the strongest willpower spirit energy Ba whatever
 
Later in the duel, Yugi also claims that Judai is the strongest duelist he's ever fought. Granted, this version of Yugi might be unaware of BBT / from the og timeline before Paradox tried to change the past, but it's still worth noting.
 
Anyways, Existential, you mentioned that you agreed with most, but not all, of the characters mentioned above. Which ones did you disagree with?

(Also, off topic, I just finished rewatching GX episode 180. NGL, I'm tearing up a little lol)
 
Regardless Zorc tossed around everyone relevant in DM at the time like a salad, prior to Atem summoning Horakhty. Horakhty something Atem shouldn't have had access to during his and Yugi's shared encounters with Judai. Also in the original real interpretation of those events Atem on his own could only seal Zorc and himself into the Puzzle and Ring respectively.
 
The Ones I don't agree with are the ones that can duel better as the reason they scale. Yes it is a factor but spiritual strength is key. They shouldn't be able to wield similar power to them only via having feats of matching them in a duel unless explicit accepting are explained in detail.

Also in DsoD TRANSCEND GAME is legit: Manga Duel Monsters needs the mother of all tier upgrades.
 
The_2nd_Existential_Seed said:
The Ones I don't agree with are the ones that can duel better as the reason they scale. Yes it is a factor but spiritual strength is key. They shouldn't be able to wield similar power to them only via having feats of matching them in a duel unless explicit accepting are explained in detail.

Also in DsoD TRANSCEND GAME is legit: Manga Duel Monsters needs the mother of all tier upgrades.
Click to expand...
Gotcha. I already thought I was pushing it with Austin, so fair enough there. I will still argue for Ryo though, he was able to open a hole in the dimensions with Cyber End Dragon. I need to look into Edo a bit more before I can argue for him, but I want to leave him open for now.
 
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OK, so I did some more looking back on Edo, and I completely forgot that Bloo-D, or Plasma in the dub, was possessed by the LoD in Season 2, which should mean Edo scales to LoD Saio and thus Neos and Rainbow Dragon
 
GoldenGangStar5 said:
Gotcha. I already thought I was pushing it with Austin, so fair enough there. I will still argue for Ryo though, he was able to open a hole in the dimensions with Cyber End Dragon. I need to look into Edo a bit more before I can argue for him, but I want to leave him open for now.
Click to expand...
The compined power of zane and jesse's crystal beasts (who are all a part of rainbow dragon) was able to awaken rainbow dragon so zane's overall energy should be compareable there's also the fact that paradox took the strongest cards in each era and one of them was rainbow dragon and cyber end so it's consistent that he's up there
 
I'm really trying to look at this objectively, but the one character I refused to give up on no matter what was Ryo, so I'm glad I don't have to give up my dignity lol
 
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