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Yu-Gi-Oh Card Effect Revision
- Thread starter Yobo_Blue
- Start date
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I propose that we have the abilities based on the cards that have been shown for a 100% rating, cards that haven't been shown should have a "Possibly" at best in front (And be based on how it kills), examples below:
-Trap Hole would be Earth Manipulation.
-Mirror Force would be Attack Reflection and Forcefield Creation.
-Thousand Knives would be Weapon Creation.
We also desperately need feats for the characters, since currently there are none. (Safe for Season 5, but that doesn't scale to any of the regular stuff.)
We should also probably note that they have their abilities in a Shadow Game (Or circumstances like Season 5 or 4.)
-Trap Hole would be Earth Manipulation.
-Mirror Force would be Attack Reflection and Forcefield Creation.
-Thousand Knives would be Weapon Creation.
We also desperately need feats for the characters, since currently there are none. (Safe for Season 5, but that doesn't scale to any of the regular stuff.)
We should also probably note that they have their abilities in a Shadow Game (Or circumstances like Season 5 or 4.)
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I dont remember even Dragon Ball needing 7 votes to add something.
Anyways, ill wait to see Data´s proposal, if i agree with it, we just ask the admins to give this a thumbs up.
If i disagree, ill argue for a bit longer to get a better result.
Anyways, ill wait to see Data´s proposal, if i agree with it, we just ask the admins to give this a thumbs up.
If i disagree, ill argue for a bit longer to get a better result.
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Dragon Ball does require 7 votes tho.
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We need more staff input. If it was based on one, this thread would be concluded a long time ago.
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Really? I thought it was generous given how many examples you guys gave of the effects being contradicting? As for Ra, think maybe a clip could help sort things out.
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Actually, the more I think about it, the more I feel like I'm being more generous, especially with Season 5.
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- Thread starter
- #170
Nah, I meant that since in this case it isn't so much the effect as what the card would be. We already see a good example of what it likely materializes as when it becomes a tangible thing without game mechanics in animations, and there is no reason they cant use those cards.SomebodyData said:
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I mean, I'm literally ignoring the examples of materialization to give this proposal, if we went with what was shown (especially in season 5), my proposal would be utterly against even adding the "possibly" as it is vague on which cards actually keep their effects.
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Okay, it is reasonable enough but...
One, effects for Kaiba and Joey should be noted that they have magic manipulation to do stuff comparable to the Item Users, after all, we do not take "temporaly" as an argument for not giving someone an ability. (Example, Mario has all of his abilities across all games, even if some powerups dont appear in certain games.)
Two, We can do that with the magic/ trap cards, but it should be noted that their abilities do consider the opponent as a MONSTER, not another player, as shown in the Pyramid of Light novel, where Anubis was killed by a effect used against other cards.
Three, Capsule Monsters has thousands of feats for all duelists, but we can discuss that later, since it also involves tiering.
Fourth, The circumstances for Season 5 are only note worthy, it hasnt been ever shown to be a explicit requirement that has been taken as an disadvatange, since there are cards that negate magic nullification.
Fifth, Some cards DO have One Hit Kill, like it or not, they depend on it and have not been shown without it.
Sixth, Yugi should have Soul Manip right off the bat thanks to Seal of Orichalcos.
Seventh, I dont agree it must always take place in a dark game for Item users, since they also scale for the Magic in Season 5.
One, effects for Kaiba and Joey should be noted that they have magic manipulation to do stuff comparable to the Item Users, after all, we do not take "temporaly" as an argument for not giving someone an ability. (Example, Mario has all of his abilities across all games, even if some powerups dont appear in certain games.)
Two, We can do that with the magic/ trap cards, but it should be noted that their abilities do consider the opponent as a MONSTER, not another player, as shown in the Pyramid of Light novel, where Anubis was killed by a effect used against other cards.
Three, Capsule Monsters has thousands of feats for all duelists, but we can discuss that later, since it also involves tiering.
Fourth, The circumstances for Season 5 are only note worthy, it hasnt been ever shown to be a explicit requirement that has been taken as an disadvatange, since there are cards that negate magic nullification.
Fifth, Some cards DO have One Hit Kill, like it or not, they depend on it and have not been shown without it.
Sixth, Yugi should have Soul Manip right off the bat thanks to Seal of Orichalcos.
Seventh, I dont agree it must always take place in a dark game for Item users, since they also scale for the Magic in Season 5.
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Data, come on, im trying to get to a mutual agreement here.
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And, materialization is indeed a thing, even if it has to be with magic/Dark Games.
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@Yobo I was referring to the inconsistent ones, pardon me for not making that clear.
@Rapid
1. With Kaiba it was like 5 minutes at most, Mario has had power-ups at times for entire adventures, it isn't really comparable.
2. Sure, though would that mean that cards that affect the duelist don't work?
3. Ye.
4. But none of those in season 5 negate magic negate.
5. I mean cards like Blackhole technically do, but cards like trap hole are literally the formation of well, trap holes. There are limits.
6. Didn't he only have the card for 2 minutes?
7. Ye but that is only like a few of the cast, some, like Yami Yugi didn't have their deck (I believe) if I remember correctly.
@Rapid
1. With Kaiba it was like 5 minutes at most, Mario has had power-ups at times for entire adventures, it isn't really comparable.
2. Sure, though would that mean that cards that affect the duelist don't work?
3. Ye.
4. But none of those in season 5 negate magic negate.
5. I mean cards like Blackhole technically do, but cards like trap hole are literally the formation of well, trap holes. There are limits.
6. Didn't he only have the card for 2 minutes?
7. Ye but that is only like a few of the cast, some, like Yami Yugi didn't have their deck (I believe) if I remember correctly.
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Well fire manip, but yeah.
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1.- I would think it is, since he was able to manipulate Ba to summon the other two dragons and able to attack Zorc at all.
2.- They would work against other duelists. Non-Duelists should be classified as monsters in vs battles imo.
3.-Okay then.
4.-I meant it on a context where someone fighting Kaiba wins because "Negates Kaiba´s magic, making him 9-B." which can be prevented with various cards on Kaiba´s deck that negate magic.
5.- Some require you to sacrifice an opponent´s monster to summon something on your own. Would that not be one hit kill?
But, since there are cards in the TCG that are inmune to the opponent sacrificing them, i guess death manipulation would be a bit more accurate for those cards that require something similar to an obligatory sacrifice.
6.- Yeah, but the effects of Seal of Orichalchos are shown all thru season 4, if you lose the game you lose your soul, which is Soul Manip.
7.- Kaiba summoned his duel disk alongside his deck in Season 5, and Yugi is able to activate magic on his own with the items (like the fusion with BEUD), which do require the scale, but it is still magic.
What im trying to say is, if Kaiba can summon his duel disk to his hand with his cards in there, Yugi should scale.
2.- They would work against other duelists. Non-Duelists should be classified as monsters in vs battles imo.
3.-Okay then.
4.-I meant it on a context where someone fighting Kaiba wins because "Negates Kaiba´s magic, making him 9-B." which can be prevented with various cards on Kaiba´s deck that negate magic.
5.- Some require you to sacrifice an opponent´s monster to summon something on your own. Would that not be one hit kill?
But, since there are cards in the TCG that are inmune to the opponent sacrificing them, i guess death manipulation would be a bit more accurate for those cards that require something similar to an obligatory sacrifice.
6.- Yeah, but the effects of Seal of Orichalchos are shown all thru season 4, if you lose the game you lose your soul, which is Soul Manip.
7.- Kaiba summoned his duel disk alongside his deck in Season 5, and Yugi is able to activate magic on his own with the items (like the fusion with BEUD), which do require the scale, but it is still magic.
What im trying to say is, if Kaiba can summon his duel disk to his hand with his cards in there, Yugi should scale.
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Some monsters, like Catapult turtle, have effects that ignore defense monsters and attack the duelist directly.
I think that should be durability negation.
But, if we do go with what the card does by itself and not "technically" game mechanics, there would still be a couple of things that do classify as BFR, One Hit Kill, Mind Control, etc.
I think that should be durability negation.
But, if we do go with what the card does by itself and not "technically" game mechanics, there would still be a couple of things that do classify as BFR, One Hit Kill, Mind Control, etc.
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I know.
Data, here is my blog of all the effects ive seen in Yugi´s and Kaiba´s Anime decks.
out of it, tell us what you consider reasonable enough to be added.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:RapidMotorcycle19/Yu-Gi-Oh!_Card_Effects_as_Hax.
Data, here is my blog of all the effects ive seen in Yugi´s and Kaiba´s Anime decks.
out of it, tell us what you consider reasonable enough to be added.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:RapidMotorcycle19/Yu-Gi-Oh!_Card_Effects_as_Hax.
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@Yobo just to make sure it is consistent. Given Marik likes to use Shadow Games, it should insta-kill everyone.
@Rapid
1.Again, Season 5.
2.Okay ig
4. He would have to access that neg first, but yeah I can see that. Wait what neg does he have?
5. The only one I could think of is Lava Golem, but I don't know if "tributing other monsters" is something that can be used in vsb.
6. Yes, but that's not his ability. It's the antagonists. He only had the card for 2 minutes or so.
7. Idk, you can add it to Season 5, but not sure if Yugi would actually do it in character, given he doesn't.
@Rapid
1.Again, Season 5.
2.Okay ig
4. He would have to access that neg first, but yeah I can see that. Wait what neg does he have?
5. The only one I could think of is Lava Golem, but I don't know if "tributing other monsters" is something that can be used in vsb.
6. Yes, but that's not his ability. It's the antagonists. He only had the card for 2 minutes or so.
7. Idk, you can add it to Season 5, but not sure if Yugi would actually do it in character, given he doesn't.
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@Rapid okay. Which decks do you plan to make tabs for in Yugi's profile btw?
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@Yobo okay I guess. Though that reminds me, Lava Golem requires two tributes.
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1.-Yeah, Season 5. It should be note worthy.
2.-Okay then.
4.-Neo Blue Eyes is unnafected by other card effects, Shining Blue Eyes destroys any cards on the fields, including magic cards, Induce explotion negates magic after an attempt is made to negate his magic cards, Dark Sacrifice negates magic that would destroy a monster, Dragon´s Orb negates attempts to negate Dragon Monster´s effects, which include magic cards and Mystical Typhoon negates and destroys magic cards.
5. It sends them to the graveyard, which is pretty much dead, so it is a death manipulation thing if it is not reasonable to call it a one hit kill.
6.-He used it on the same conditions as the antagonists. He got Lil Yugi´s soul sealed into the Orichalchos because he lost.
7.- Yugi used his magic to fuse with BEUD, and he is a dark game user, so i think it should count.
2.-Okay then.
4.-Neo Blue Eyes is unnafected by other card effects, Shining Blue Eyes destroys any cards on the fields, including magic cards, Induce explotion negates magic after an attempt is made to negate his magic cards, Dark Sacrifice negates magic that would destroy a monster, Dragon´s Orb negates attempts to negate Dragon Monster´s effects, which include magic cards and Mystical Typhoon negates and destroys magic cards.
5. It sends them to the graveyard, which is pretty much dead, so it is a death manipulation thing if it is not reasonable to call it a one hit kill.
6.-He used it on the same conditions as the antagonists. He got Lil Yugi´s soul sealed into the Orichalchos because he lost.
7.- Yugi used his magic to fuse with BEUD, and he is a dark game user, so i think it should count.
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The blog is using a composite deck, it covers all Effect /Magic / Trap cards Yugi had used on the anime, if we had a tier for every deck he has had, it would be at least 6 different tabs PLUS the Capsule Monster armors. (Which have different abilities.)
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1. Ye, it can be noted. Though it probably won't be in Kaiba's profile.
4. Neo Blue-Eyes is manga-verse, not anime. The rest of the cards you mentioned destroy cards, not negate effects. Mystical Typhoon is a literal meme about it "negating", so I'm hoping you're joking.
5. It is technically a one hit kill, but it wouldn't qualify for a one hit kill (as in the page here), it would count as durability negation though.
6. Again, literally only two minutes.
7. I was referring to the duel disk part.
4. Neo Blue-Eyes is manga-verse, not anime. The rest of the cards you mentioned destroy cards, not negate effects. Mystical Typhoon is a literal meme about it "negating", so I'm hoping you're joking.
5. It is technically a one hit kill, but it wouldn't qualify for a one hit kill (as in the page here), it would count as durability negation though.
6. Again, literally only two minutes.
7. I was referring to the duel disk part.
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1.- I do think Kaiba should also be added Hax due to the magic.
4.-Yeah, i gotta remove the Dsod monsters. Sorry about that.
Dragon Orb protects Dragon Type monsters from having their effects negated. Which is negating magic negation, or well, resistance to effects that would nullify dragon effects.
i am pretty sure mystical did negate on the anime, but, maybe they just dont chose to active their cards in a chain, but yeah, it is debatable if it does negate on the anime.
5.-Durability Negation or Death Manip imo. But yeah, technically not a one hit kill in Vs battles abilities.
6.- So did the other villians, under the same conditions as yugi, i dont think the time of it being used does matter.
7.-Kaiba did use magic to will the DD into his arm, which include his deck. I do think it is reasonable enough to be added.
4.-Yeah, i gotta remove the Dsod monsters. Sorry about that.
Dragon Orb protects Dragon Type monsters from having their effects negated. Which is negating magic negation, or well, resistance to effects that would nullify dragon effects.
i am pretty sure mystical did negate on the anime, but, maybe they just dont chose to active their cards in a chain, but yeah, it is debatable if it does negate on the anime.
5.-Durability Negation or Death Manip imo. But yeah, technically not a one hit kill in Vs battles abilities.
6.- So did the other villians, under the same conditions as yugi, i dont think the time of it being used does matter.
7.-Kaiba did use magic to will the DD into his arm, which include his deck. I do think it is reasonable enough to be added.
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1. Kaiba shouldn't be getting a season 5 tab, it would be the equivalent of me adding a "With the Power of the Z-Fighters (Movie 8)" tab for Son Goku. With Yami Yuga and Bakura it made sense since this is what happened in the past, but for Kaiba its not even his own power or magic, its because of the setting.
4. Resistance I think, giving its offering protection for the dragon rather than affecting the magic user.
Nah, MST doesn't negate.
5. Durability Negation is fine, but wouldn't that only be for Marik?
6. The villians had it the entire time. Yugi literally got it mid-duel for a few minutes.
7. See 1.
4. Resistance I think, giving its offering protection for the dragon rather than affecting the magic user.
Nah, MST doesn't negate.
5. Durability Negation is fine, but wouldn't that only be for Marik?
6. The villians had it the entire time. Yugi literally got it mid-duel for a few minutes.
7. See 1.
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If I remember correctly, most of those are usually because they are "intune" with the setting so to speak, or are restricted by the usual settings.
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I'll just say one thing since abilities I don't really have an opinion on right now.
About Yugi having soul manip via seal of orichalcos, I agree with Data that Yugi shouldnt have it. Or at least, it needs to be specified its useless in combat/needs prep. Other than him having it for 2 minutes at best:
-Yugi's soul only gained the power of the seal because his own soul was projected into a specific area where spirits go to, hence how Atem and Yugi dueled in the first place. That makes it clear that it's not something that can be normally done. And the seal of orichalcos can't seal away souls at all until someone loses anyway, making it pretty useless in actual battle.
-There's reason to doubt that was even Yugi's actual soul in the first place. I'm fine if I'm wrong here, but wasn't his soul supposed to be sealed into the Orichalcos for Leviathan? If so, why would it suddenly be able to break free on its own for a minor duel with Atem? I believe it was more of a test to cleanse Atem of his "dark side" for using the seal before but take that with a grain of salt.
-Atem never sealed away Yugis soul on his own. Losing was what made it happen, plus the fact that Yugi specifically chose to let the seal take his soul instead of Atems by using the puzzles power to minorly break the seal in time to switch.
The only thing the seal can do combat wise is trap people within the barrier via forcefields in an attempt to steal their souls, but as far as actually taking them, it should be either prep or non-combat applicable the way I see it.
That is all.
About Yugi having soul manip via seal of orichalcos, I agree with Data that Yugi shouldnt have it. Or at least, it needs to be specified its useless in combat/needs prep. Other than him having it for 2 minutes at best:
-Yugi's soul only gained the power of the seal because his own soul was projected into a specific area where spirits go to, hence how Atem and Yugi dueled in the first place. That makes it clear that it's not something that can be normally done. And the seal of orichalcos can't seal away souls at all until someone loses anyway, making it pretty useless in actual battle.
-There's reason to doubt that was even Yugi's actual soul in the first place. I'm fine if I'm wrong here, but wasn't his soul supposed to be sealed into the Orichalcos for Leviathan? If so, why would it suddenly be able to break free on its own for a minor duel with Atem? I believe it was more of a test to cleanse Atem of his "dark side" for using the seal before but take that with a grain of salt.
-Atem never sealed away Yugis soul on his own. Losing was what made it happen, plus the fact that Yugi specifically chose to let the seal take his soul instead of Atems by using the puzzles power to minorly break the seal in time to switch.
The only thing the seal can do combat wise is trap people within the barrier via forcefields in an attempt to steal their souls, but as far as actually taking them, it should be either prep or non-combat applicable the way I see it.
That is all.
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1.-I dunno man, i think Kaiba using magic has been shown in quite a bit of detail in season 5, he was able to use magic and channel ba directly from his past self and Kisara, and he did summon the first blue eyes on his own.
4. I think it should also be used to avoid "seals kaiba´s magic gg" insta win arguments.
5. No, Yugi and Kaiba also have cards that force one hit kills or sending to the graveyard.
6. But he still did use it, and yeah, since Kukui is here, i must make clear that Yugi did not do anything by himself on that duel, but by result of him losing with the Seal on.
It is a very, very limited soul manip and probably not battle aplicable because the effect happens after Yugi already won, but soul manip.
7. See 1.
4. I think it should also be used to avoid "seals kaiba´s magic gg" insta win arguments.
5. No, Yugi and Kaiba also have cards that force one hit kills or sending to the graveyard.
6. But he still did use it, and yeah, since Kukui is here, i must make clear that Yugi did not do anything by himself on that duel, but by result of him losing with the Seal on.
It is a very, very limited soul manip and probably not battle aplicable because the effect happens after Yugi already won, but soul manip.
7. See 1.
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Yugi/Atem do have minimal soul manipulation on themselves, being able to change it at will, the Pegasus vs yugi duel and everytime they change souls are very decent examples of this.
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I'm in agreement with SomebodyData and ProfessorKukui4Life. I find their arguments logical, reasonable, & well presented.
And if anyone wants to accuse me of motivational bias, I feel it should be mentioned that I'd love Yu-Gi-Oh! upgrades... but only if the reasoning behind them seems reasonable. I was very happy when Yami Marik got his door-busting feat calc'd, am still hopeful his electricity manipulation can be quantified, & I requested several feats related to Joey & Valon's duel ages back.
But there's a lot I've disagreed with here.
Kaiba was able to use "magic" because they were in the Memory World. I don't recall the manga too well, but I've seen the anime, & my memories are foggy. If my memory serves, Joey & Tristan showed in that world that they could summon Duel Disks & monsters freely & fly among other things they couldn't do normally.
From what I recall, the presentation strongly suggested such abnormal abilities like summoning were a product of being in that world, not something they inherently have.
I don't recall the Pyramid of Light movie's exact details, but it is a 4Kids production, with no involvement of Nihon Ad Systems, nor Kazuki Takahashi, the creator of the Yu-Gi-Oh! manga. Meaning, IIRC, we can't use the movie.
Also, AFAIK, NAS was involved in the Capsule Monsters anime, but not KT, & it was primarily a 4Kids work, commissiond, produced & edited by them. Why would we accept Capsule Monsters? Emotionally, I'm not opposed, but at best, I could see it for the Anime profiles.
In Kazuki Takahashi's official novel of the movie I couldn't find one mention of Joey/Jonouchi summoning, and I searched the document by his name & scrolled through it. I also couldn't find mention of Pegasus summoning.
And in said novelization, the "Game of Darkness being over" dialogue suggests that what they're observing indicates that the GoD is continuing, hence being able to summon. Even if it wasn't, IIRC, wasn't BESD made BY Pegasus specifically as a means to counter the Gods? As in, by the Millenium Item user who had to paint the God cards himself? He didn't create the Gods the cards represent, of course, but I would think that BESDs' power, status & circumstance probably indicate it being able to be summoned is a special case.
In the Orichalcos/DOMA saga, summoning is largely a product of Dartz/The Orichalcos, or the Legendary Dragons/Warriors.
Early in the arc, when Leviathan's eye appears, Timaeus is summoned from its card, & it shows influence -glowing, signalling, IIRC- even when the Orichalcos isn't involved. It's more likely that the Legendary Dragons having influence outside of duels or the Orichalcos is just proof of them being unique, not that anyone can summon.
When Yugi duel-fights the Orichalcos Soldier & its Orichalcos Giygas, that soldier had been summoned by Dartz with a Seal of the Orichalcos, & almost from the start of that duel, Yugi's deck got empowered by the Spirits of the Valley of Lost Souls.
This is the same valley where Atem & Yugi's spirit -or a likeness of it/Atem's negative feelings about letting Yugi get taken away- dueled. Odds are, summoning things with physicality in that duel against Soldier & Giygas was a product of the spirits helping out.
In the city, where Kaiba summons BEWD & Yugi summons Celtic Guardian, they were fighting Orichalcos forces, & in much of that, even the policemen were under Orichalcos influence. It would seem most of the city was affected by the Orichalcos.
So it's almost certain that wasn't an instance of Yugi summoning without an item either.
As for other hax, as interesting as Mirror Force, Magic Cylinder, Crush Card Virus, MST, Dark Hole, etc. are, I'm not sure how reasonable they would be to include without seeing how they act OUTSIDE of a duel.
Otherwise, we come up with questions like: How big is its range, does it suck things in, what happens with the vortex or space it distorts, what kind of disease does it distort, what properties do the forcefield have, in what ways does it reflect and so on and so forth.
Card effect portrayals in duels may vary, & with the basis being the game mechanics, yet what we're seeking being their actual effects outside of the game, I would think they might be a bit blurry to be used.
I would also like to give my thoughts on Infinite ATK Obelisk, but if that doesn't pertain to this thread, I'll refrain.
And if anyone wants to accuse me of motivational bias, I feel it should be mentioned that I'd love Yu-Gi-Oh! upgrades... but only if the reasoning behind them seems reasonable. I was very happy when Yami Marik got his door-busting feat calc'd, am still hopeful his electricity manipulation can be quantified, & I requested several feats related to Joey & Valon's duel ages back.
But there's a lot I've disagreed with here.
Kaiba was able to use "magic" because they were in the Memory World. I don't recall the manga too well, but I've seen the anime, & my memories are foggy. If my memory serves, Joey & Tristan showed in that world that they could summon Duel Disks & monsters freely & fly among other things they couldn't do normally.
From what I recall, the presentation strongly suggested such abnormal abilities like summoning were a product of being in that world, not something they inherently have.
I don't recall the Pyramid of Light movie's exact details, but it is a 4Kids production, with no involvement of Nihon Ad Systems, nor Kazuki Takahashi, the creator of the Yu-Gi-Oh! manga. Meaning, IIRC, we can't use the movie.
Also, AFAIK, NAS was involved in the Capsule Monsters anime, but not KT, & it was primarily a 4Kids work, commissiond, produced & edited by them. Why would we accept Capsule Monsters? Emotionally, I'm not opposed, but at best, I could see it for the Anime profiles.
In Kazuki Takahashi's official novel of the movie I couldn't find one mention of Joey/Jonouchi summoning, and I searched the document by his name & scrolled through it. I also couldn't find mention of Pegasus summoning.
And in said novelization, the "Game of Darkness being over" dialogue suggests that what they're observing indicates that the GoD is continuing, hence being able to summon. Even if it wasn't, IIRC, wasn't BESD made BY Pegasus specifically as a means to counter the Gods? As in, by the Millenium Item user who had to paint the God cards himself? He didn't create the Gods the cards represent, of course, but I would think that BESDs' power, status & circumstance probably indicate it being able to be summoned is a special case.
In the Orichalcos/DOMA saga, summoning is largely a product of Dartz/The Orichalcos, or the Legendary Dragons/Warriors.
Early in the arc, when Leviathan's eye appears, Timaeus is summoned from its card, & it shows influence -glowing, signalling, IIRC- even when the Orichalcos isn't involved. It's more likely that the Legendary Dragons having influence outside of duels or the Orichalcos is just proof of them being unique, not that anyone can summon.
When Yugi duel-fights the Orichalcos Soldier & its Orichalcos Giygas, that soldier had been summoned by Dartz with a Seal of the Orichalcos, & almost from the start of that duel, Yugi's deck got empowered by the Spirits of the Valley of Lost Souls.
This is the same valley where Atem & Yugi's spirit -or a likeness of it/Atem's negative feelings about letting Yugi get taken away- dueled. Odds are, summoning things with physicality in that duel against Soldier & Giygas was a product of the spirits helping out.
In the city, where Kaiba summons BEWD & Yugi summons Celtic Guardian, they were fighting Orichalcos forces, & in much of that, even the policemen were under Orichalcos influence. It would seem most of the city was affected by the Orichalcos.
So it's almost certain that wasn't an instance of Yugi summoning without an item either.
As for other hax, as interesting as Mirror Force, Magic Cylinder, Crush Card Virus, MST, Dark Hole, etc. are, I'm not sure how reasonable they would be to include without seeing how they act OUTSIDE of a duel.
Otherwise, we come up with questions like: How big is its range, does it suck things in, what happens with the vortex or space it distorts, what kind of disease does it distort, what properties do the forcefield have, in what ways does it reflect and so on and so forth.
Card effect portrayals in duels may vary, & with the basis being the game mechanics, yet what we're seeking being their actual effects outside of the game, I would think they might be a bit blurry to be used.
I would also like to give my thoughts on Infinite ATK Obelisk, but if that doesn't pertain to this thread, I'll refrain.
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