Yhwach vs Goetia

[DragonEmperor23]

"I will make a quick establishment of a win condition for Goetia that has yet to be brought up. Goetia while in Solomon's body always starts by summoning a few demon god pillars, in fact, I am pretty sure he just always has them summoned to protect him and attack. If Yhwach, instead of trying to absorb Goetia, specifically tried to absorb those demon god pillars, he could potentially tie himself into the system of type 8 that the demon god pillars have between eachother and force a stalemate. However, again, this still only works on the low chance that Goetia goes the CIS route and doesn't just project his a few of his demon pillars into the past. From what we have been told here as well, we must also assume that Yhwach would go for Solomon's body since he would think that it is a part of his dear old daddy.

Just so we are clear, this isn't a stomp since he has those win conditions even tho him absorbing Goetia in Solomon's body would not work. "

It was this.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Wait a minute. That's an incon condition, not a win condition. If he absorbs a Demon Pillar, then Solomon and Yhwach will become unable to kill each other without dying.

 

[Gaatsuh]

How can it not prevent it? What's the logic behind that, you're in full control of everything that happens in the future. You get killed in the past, see yourself disappearing in the future, because that's what precog does, allowing you to foresee what happens & then rewrite it.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

That isn't a wincon for Yhwach... hell you even said that only works with CIS which isn't used on vs battles and thats a perfect scenario with alot of assumptions.

 

[Paul_Frank]

@gaatsuh

Because the planet is being wiped in the past too

You can't precog the past you need retrocognition for that

You can't look into the future and see yourself getting paradoxed because you are paradoxed in the past so you never reach that point in time anyway

 

[Gaatsuh]

wiping the planet is useless, he can just teleport

he doesn't need to see the past, as i said, he sees himself disappearing in the future due to the almighty

"You can't look into the future and see yourself getting paradoxed because you are paradoxed in the past so you never reach that point in time anyway" goetia affects the past, > affecting the past affects the future, but yhwach has control over the future, so no i don't see it doing anything.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I don't know what to tell you besides that is not how it works

You can't see yourself disappearing in the future because you are paradoxed in the past and thus never existed

 

[Gaatsuh]

if you have control over the future, how is the past going to affect you, if you already control what's going to happen?

 

[Paul_Frank]

Because if you are made to have never existed you due to being prevented from existing in the past you can't control the future with your powers in the present

 

[Gaatsuh]

he was able to manipulate the future, even when he was already dead, obviously doesn't matter

 

[Paul_Frank]

Because he picked a future where he never died

If Goetia wipes the planet at all points in time that includes the past

Yhwach can't pick a future where he never died because he would not have existed and been able to use the almighty

 

[Gaatsuh]

he didn't pick a future, he rewrote the future, big difference, i don't get why people keep mentioning the "he picked a different future, no he straight out says he rewrites it, and the almighty is already active, which means that he can rewrite the future

 

[Paul_Frank]

I really don't know what to tell you besides it doesn't work like that.

 

[Gaatsuh]

It doesn't work like that, doesn't do the job

 

[John985]

You need acausality to survive being paradoxed, if you dont believe it ask some mod.

 

[Beast_Zero_Gudako]

How can you rewrite the future when there is no future to begin with

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

i either vote for moustache man for reasons above or iconclusive for reasons above too

 

[Paul_Frank]

It's already been explained why it doesn't work like that but you just recycled your argument

Lemme explain again why it doesn't work

Yhwach's almighty allows him to see all futures and pick any future. He rewrote his death by picking a future where he didn't die

A key thing to note here is that precog, what the almighty uses, lets you see the future

Goetia goes to the past and fires off AAS which wipes the planet. This would cause Yhwach to never exist and be paradoxed.

This event occurs in the past so precog doesn't let you see that

You can't change the future if you never existed. The almighty affects the future and Yhwach lacks type 1 acasuality so he can still be paradoxed

 

[John985]

i either vote for moustache man for reasons above or iconclusive for reasons above too

there's no vote for Yhwach at all.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

isn't this a stomp since Yhwach cant really do anything?

 

[Paul_Frank]

this was literally established within the first 5 posts of the thread

Yes

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Wait a minute. That's an incon condition, not a win condition. If he absorbs a Demon Pillar, then Solomon and Yhwach will become unable to kill each other without dying.

If he can manage to slowly absorb all of the pillars, he can win that way as well

 

[DragonEmperor23]

How?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Goetia fra

 

[Paul_Frank]

Goetia:5

Yhwach:0

 

[Solacis]

Goetia FRA

 

[Paul_Frank]

Goetia:6

Yhwach:0

 

[DragonEmperor23]

How?

^

 

[Superßull]

Dayum Yhwach takin' L's like it's mosquitoe bites ...

 

[AnonymousBlank]

This match confuses me since one guy says X is a win condition but then another guy says that it wouldnt work. And hen a bunch of people say stomp yet people are still voting. None of it makes sense.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yes.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

It's a stomp, goetia resists absorption. Hell he could probably absorb back seeing as one of his constituent pillars can do ao

 

[Paul_Frank]

This should be closed then


It was literally established that this was a stomp within the first 10 posts but people kept arguing it for another 262 posts

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Yes because reason is rare.

 

[Schnee_One]

Bleach

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Low blow Gar

 

[Schnee_One]

But Dead Eye Accurate

 

[AppleLord]

So can Yhwach survive the passive soul and mind rip?

Don't know about mind rip, but soul resistance should be a thing since I doubt Yammy can suck Yhwach's soul out. Meh, fodder human have better resistance feats than Yhwach who can share his own soul, take it back, and have absolute control over the flow of souls in his own verse. If he doesn't balance souls the universe can collapse on itself. His soul manipulation should equal his own resistance for this reason.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I could make an arguement for Goetia having beyond planetary soulhax but meh

The arguement moved on from the soul&mind rip to Yhwach has no answer to being paradoxed out of existence and also can not put Goetia down so this is a stomp

 

[AppleLord]

I could make an arguement for Goetia having beyond planetary soulhax but mehThe arguement moved on from the soul&mind rip to Yhwach has no answer to being paradoxed out of existence and also can not put Goetia down so this is a stomp

Yhwach can't be paradoxed because his verse deals with futures that are not set in a single timeline. Yhwach dying, and later choosing an alternative version where he didn't die to bring himself back should prove this point.