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Yhwach and Ichibei Downgrade

AppleLord

AppleLord

11,340
3,010
Base Yhwach killed base Yamamoto after stealing his bankai. [1] Base Yamamoto is Unknown it doesn't have a key on the profile. And Base Yhwach was hurt by Mountain Level Bankai Ichigo, reiatsu, even after Ichigo claimed that he dodge it and Ichibei power scales from Yhwach.

Base Yhwach is Mountain Level in both AP and Durability for stalemating Ichigo Fullbring Bankai.

http://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-513-page-13.html

http://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-514-page-2.html

http://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-514-page-3.html

Ichibei in Base Scales to Yhwach.
 
Yhwach was very very suppressed. He didn't use any of his strongest moves and was toying around with Ichigo.
 
He was fully aware of his strenght when he pulled and slam Ichigo to the floor. He said he was holding back, but to an Unknown extent. He only power scales to his men who survive shikai Yamamoto, Yhwach kill him in base which is unknown too.
 
I don't think this makes much sense. There's no way either Yhwach or Ichibei are weaker than Gremmy and shikai kenpachi
 
We don't need to scale, there are feats that make Yhwach country level. His raw power was shown as equal to true shikai Ichigo in their short fight. And as we all know the almighty does not boost base stats.
 
You forgot he got a power boost from absorbing the souls of those who died in battle, Jugram said that it makes him live longer and stronger. He got a juice boost from that, before going to face Ichibei.

http://*****************/read-online/Bleach-chapter-565-page-15.html
 
Strenght alone doesn't determine a battle. Ichibei and Yhwach possess hax, speed and knowdlege over them.
 
They do have better hax speed and knowledge but to say that Yhwach, who is the king of the Quincys and Ichibei who's the leader of the royal guard are on the same level as the senior captains and sternritter is a bit too much in my opinion. If anything, Ichigo hurting Yhwach and surviving his attack should be a feat for ichigo considering he just fought Quilge and comepletely exhausted his reiatsu in Quilge's cage. He also one shot a sternritter as soon as he got to the Soul Soicety.
 
What silent bob said. It's nonsensical. You'd make much more sense arguing for a higher rating for FB Ichigo.
 
I also agree with SilentBob34 and LordAizenSama. There is no way Yhwach and Ichibei should be below true Shikai Zaraki and Nimaiya.

By the way, as per Gwynbleiddd's revisions and power-scaling from Zaraki, shouldn't Oetsu Nimaiya be High 6-C (Large Island level+)?

I'm asking you @LordAizenSama since you are more knowledgeable about this verse than myself.
 
What evidence do we have of them in base been stronger to Shikai Kenpachi who stomp Greemy?
 
Gremmy himself is High 6-C to Low 6-B. There is no way in hell he's superior to even base Yhwach.

Base Yhwach could handle Yamamoto's Bankai, which @Gwynbleidd calculated at Low 6-B recently. An older OBD calc got similar results to his. That means base Yhwach's reiatsu has to be at least of that level otherwise he would get destroyed by it. It was also stated that Yhwach is the only Quincy capable of handling the reiatsu of Yamamoto's bankai. This proves that none of the Sternritter come close to his level even in base. It thus puts him above Gremmy, who is High 6-C to Low 6-B.

Ichibei of course gets scaled from that since he is at least on Yamamoto's level or higher and gave base Yhwach a hard time.
 
I agree with SilentBob, Aizen, and Soldier Blue.
 
Should we close this thread then?
 
Soldier Blue said:
Gremmy himself is High 6-C to Low 6-B. There is no way in hell he's superior to even base Yhwach.

Base Yhwach could handle Yamamoto's Bankai, which @Gwynbleidd calculated at Low 6-B recently. An older OBD calc got similar results to his. That means base Yhwach's reiatsu has to be at least of that level otherwise he would get destroyed by it. It was also stated that Yhwach is the only Quincy capable of handling the reiatsu of Yamamoto's bankai. This proves that none of the Sternritter come close to his level even in base. It thus puts him above Gremmy, who is High 6-C to Low 6-B.

Ichibei of course gets scaled from that since he is at least on Yamamoto's level or higher and gave base Yhwach a hard time.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that mean thatb base Yhwach, base Ichibei and Shikai Ichigo, and Askin all be upgraded to Small Continent level base on their reiatsu?
 
I agree. If anything, Ichigo should be upgraded for damaging Yhwach and forcing him to use his full power. His previous rating was wonky in the first place. Ginjo would be affected too. The rest of the Royal Guard would also be affected considering:

- They trained Ichigo.

- Should be comparable to Ichibe regardless.

- Yhwach would rather use hax than fight head on with Kirinji.

- Nimaiya was confident he could fight Yhwach head on, despite knowing Yhwach's power.

- It was already stated their combined power>Gotei 13.

Elites could possibly scale Post Auswhalen.

That's my two cents. BTW, how do you delete blog posts?
 
AppleLord said:
Wouldn't that mean thatb base Yhwach, base Ichibei and Shikai Ichigo, and Askin all be upgraded to Small Continent level base on their reiatsu?
Click to expand...
Why small continent level? Low 6-B is small country level.
 
I don't know what to make of Ichigo damaging Yhwach. That could be because Yhwach's power was diminishing at the time or it could be PIS or it could be a combination of both. It makes absolutely no sense for Ichigo before Royal Guard training to damage someone comparable or superior to Yamamoto.

I agree that the Royal Guard members other than Ichibei should be bumped up to High 6-C but they are nowhere near Ichibei's level.
 
Soldier Blue said:
Why small continent level? Low 6-B is small country level.
Click to expand...
"Base Yhwach could handle Yamamoto's Bankai, which @Gwynbleidd calculated at Low 6-B recently. An older OBD calc got similar results to his. That means base Yhwach's reiatsu has to be at least of that level otherwise he would get destroyed by it. It was also stated that Yhwach is the only Quincy capable of handling the reiatsu of Yamamoto's bankai."- Soldier Blue said.

And this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-w8W7aUTWA...pmSPqKdEtGimcY_xUeUpRQCHM/s16000/0508-001.png, http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GwSXuNpNC...RLZB9nW9ImKxk86HjJAuqgCHM/s16000/0508-002.png

Raw translation of Reiatsu is Spiritual Pressure.

His current Bankai stats key in his profile is Small continent level.
 
Sorry. That was a different calc for the same thing.

Anyway, I'm not sure about High 6-B base Yhwach and Ichibei. I'll ask LordAizenSama for input.
 
Yamamoto's high 6-B rating is enviromental destruction because Unohana and him stated that if kept active for too long it would destroy soul society right? That's seems fine in my opinion but there's also no reason to think that he couldn't just do it if he wanted to. If just keeping his Bankai active for a period of time will destroy Soul Society then I think he could easily put out that much energy if he wanted to.
 
Piercer of Heaven said:
I agree. If anything, Ichigo should be upgraded for damaging Yhwach and forcing him to use his full power. His previous rating was wonky in the first place. Ginjo would be affected too. The rest of the Royal Guard would also be affected considering:

- They trained Ichigo.

- Should be comparable to Ichibe regardless.

- Yhwach would rather use hax than fight head on with Kirinji.

- Nimaiya was confident he could fight Yhwach head on, despite knowing Yhwach's power.

- It was already stated their combined power>Gotei 13.

Elites could possibly scale Post Auswahlen.
Click to expand...
Gwynbleiddd is planning to eventually handle a Bleach revision. I think that such issues will be handled then. However, at the moment we are not well equipped to start to perform lots of changes.
 
@Soldier Blue Yhwach's power diminishng? I don't believe that was ever stated.

Ichigi being superior to Yamamoto is shown as he damaged Yhwach. You can't really argue against that as nothing contradicts it.

It actually does make sense, considering he didn't only have his reiatsu but the reiatsu of all captains and Lieutenants + Hanatarou, Isshin, Yoruichi and Urahara, in just his Shikai state. Plus, his Fullbring training enhanced his natural capabilities even further.

Ichigo back in FKT Arc was already comparable to Aizen, both having at least double the reiatsu of a Captain.

He was also the only one able to sense Chrysalis Aizen's reiatsu,so he is definitely not limited in how powerful he can become, naturally.

Rest of the RG members shouldn't be far weaker than Ichibe. They should all be comparable.
 
Well, you can message Gwynbleiddd with the information, as I will not handle the revision.
 
Ichigo without his true zanpakuto should remain where he is.Or more correctly where his feats and powerscale to other characters will place him and not that nonsencical mountain level that appeared out of nowhere without any calcs to back it up.

Yhwach was going easy on Ichigo, before seeing that he had activated blut vene he said to Hazelnut (yes i know that's not his name, i just like to call him that) that Ichigo should still be alive and he later points that he would destroy Ichigo with his full power.

And Ichigo did nothing more than destroy Yhwach's clothes.

Hazelnut was able to casually destroy Ichigo's bankai, and logically Yhwach should be above him.

Yamamoto's bankai was active for several minutes and it didn't destroy anything, also damage done over time shouldn't count as AP, i'm pretty sure that by releasing 1 Teraton of TNT per second he would do extreme damage to Soul Society, but i would also do extreme damage to a Wall if you gave me an hour and a hammer, does that make me Wall level?

The statement should be treated as Enviromental Destruction at best and no character should scale to that.

Also more points on base Yhwach, his clone was able to withstand Yamamoto's bankai at a close distance which would give him Island level durability.

The royal guard members were defeated by the elite sternitter who later fought against the captains at higher forms, and some of the were defeated or at least more challenged than when they fought the guard.

The guard should be scaled to senior captains (City to City level+) since they are supposed to be superior to them.
 
Eh, the flames are created by his reiatsu, reiatsu control is already a thing, Isshin explain that without it, all Captains would be wielding swords the size of skyscrapers. Yamamoto even said that he would like to end the fight before SS is destroy, is more like not been able to fully control such power, than releasing by the minute or second.

All of Yamamoto's reiatsu/flames are absorb into the edge of the blade, and his sun armor doesn't cover his hands, feet and face. Everything would be instantly destroy if he couldn't control his power for the short time that he did. Yamamoto place the edge of the blade on the ground, and he instantly vaporized it, is control of reaiatsu, not over time. If he wanted to committed a suicidal attack all of his energy would be released by just controlling his reiatsu.

If Yhwach can control such power, he would need to be that strong.

I agree about the Ichigo part, he was too weak and lucky.
 
@Gwynbleiddd Ichigo burnt Yhwach's arm, not just his clothing. The only reason why Yhwach wasn't damaged as much, was because he dodged the attack.

He also forced Yhwach to use his full power.

Jugram>>>>>>>>Base Yhwach. Base Yhwach needs to regain his full power to handle the Almighty or else he could lose control and absorb all the other Sternritter's Schrifts. On the other hand, Jugram can handle that + his Soul King powers without difficulty.

Eiether way, Ichigo is clearly superior to Bankai Yamamoto and should scale above him.

The RG members got haxxed by Lille/off-screened.
 
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