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I also think it has nothing to do with the information in the natural sense, just fragments of the soul.
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Bleach small upgrade
- Thread starter EldemadeDityjon
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Hellscream
He/Him- 1,696
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It's not just fragments of the soul, those fragments absorb all information about the being they're attached to. And then return to yhwach to grant him even more power and abilities, that were imprinted on the souls of those being. and like i said, yhwach sees souls as information as stated by kubo.
'Yhwach has the ability to see as if they were words engraved in the individual's body" that's obviously not just "soul manipulation"
He absorbs the information of his opponent, he grants them power by engraving a schrift on their soul, and by absorbing it later on
'Yhwach has the ability to see as if they were words engraved in the individual's body" that's obviously not just "soul manipulation"
He absorbs the information of his opponent, he grants them power by engraving a schrift on their soul, and by absorbing it later on
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Nowhere really stated such as that. If it is stated as you described, I would not argue about it. Therefore, I disagree with the thread.
Getting information from the opponent is literally nowhere information manipulation in that sense, it is more information analysis which he already has it.
Getting information from the opponent is literally nowhere information manipulation in that sense, it is more information analysis which he already has it.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #44
He Absorbs the soul fragments which embodies the information. The Soul fragments which comes backs to him has those all skils and abilities imprinted on it. Forgetting about existence and high godly regeneration. His power Bestowal and taking it back is still information manipulation. High godly regeneration can be given as a possible rating.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #45
This is already in the OP. Its literally stated by Kubo i don't know why you are ignoring this.
Also information analysis? Bro really?
he is not gaining knowledge. He literally Absorbing the ability and skills of what he had given to others by schrifts.
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Absorbing skills and abilities are nowhere in information manipulation. Lol.This is already in the OP. Its literally stated by Kubo i don't know why you are ignoring this.
Also information analysis? Bro really?
+ what you quoted is literally used for conceptual manipulation, so pretty much no new arguments are brought up.
I am sorry, but my position is still unchanged.
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,696
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"their skills, knowldge and abilities are imprinted on their soul" which is obviously through the term of information..
as seen by the multiple statements, and how yhwach distributes schrifts, can see words engraved on other peoples bodies etc..
and not to mention that this skill got even more powerful by having yhwach absorb more
as seen by the multiple statements, and how yhwach distributes schrifts, can see words engraved on other peoples bodies etc..
and not to mention that this skill got even more powerful by having yhwach absorb more
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,696
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It's either information manipulation or conceptual manipulation, but with the way its worded, im more inclined to see that it's information manipulation.
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That's like saying that altering someone's memories is "Information Manipulation" because memories can be considered a form of information.
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,696
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How is that even remotely comparable to this scenario?
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,696
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Yhwach is literally stated to see souls as information, which he absorbs
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It is already given for conceptual manipulation, I still don't see why using the same argument for information manipulation.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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A character can have both Conceptual manipulation and information manipulation. Don't see why you are just saying it's Conceptual manipulation. Also where the heck it is stated as conceptual manipulation? Kubo literally states it is done based on imprinting letters and words into once soul and awakening the skills.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #54
Dude really don't see where this comparison coming from.
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Rimuru's case is different, bro? You rly trying to ignore his case, it is explicit (see the bold text!!!) that everything there including the existence of a person is made out of information. It literally stated like that.
No, mate, you don't take fire manipulation arguments and use them for water manipulation.
I still disagree with this. That's just conceptual manipulation.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #56
To get information manipulation there is no rule whole verse needs to be made up of information and no Rimuru skills are made up of information that's how it works same goes for Yhwach.
Anyway I asked other staffs who are knowledgeable on bleach. Let's see what they will say.
Lesser_Goddess_Alexia
She/Her- 704
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In Tensura, it is clear that Skill, Soul, Memory, and Mind are Information.
Not like 'Oh this is a skill, this must be Information'
Hellscream
He/Him- 1,696
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did you read the thread?
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You are wrong, this is really a topic off, but skills are made by information. Inform yourself.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #60
No one said they aren't. Have you read the OP. Kubo clarified Yhwach gives the abilities by seeing the letters embedded in the soul of others..
At this point you people are just trying being Ignorant. Not to mention there is a character from SAFWy who can make her body & copy others abilities through information manipulation. It's not uncommon for yhwach to do the same.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #61
Anyway I asked DT. Let's see what he is gonna say.
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Calling the opposing side ignorant is completely un necessary. This discussion is honestly going in circles “infinite” ad nauseams with actually no new arguments.
the requested addition seems to be misinterpreted. With abilities yhwach already has in his profile. I wouldn’t interpret how sustains his continued existence. solely or predominantly based as a result of information but rather fragmented souls.
the requested addition seems to be misinterpreted. With abilities yhwach already has in his profile. I wouldn’t interpret how sustains his continued existence. solely or predominantly based as a result of information but rather fragmented souls.
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that's legit conceptual manipulation, cmon Elde. Lets close this thread and end this.
Nowhere it is related to information manipulation, using same argument that has been used is really really good try but no.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #64
Asked a knowledgeable staff why don't we stop derailing also those soul fragments contains the skill. I will still take it as argument from ignorance. Deceived already gave a pretty good explanation regarding why it plays a big role in sustaining the yhwach Existence. Anyway at the end it will comes down to staff input. Instead of going back and forth let's see what DT gonna say. I am pretty sure he even stated this kinda thing qualifies for information manipulation in other threads. I will check the thread wait.
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Call any fallacy you want, it is still conceptual manipulation. Hey, unless you want to remove CM, I have no issues with this. You can replace it with information manipulation, sure thing. But do you want to get both of them for the same exact argument? No, sorry.
Also, I have no issues with calling another staff member. My position has remained unchanged.
Also, I have no issues with calling another staff member. My position has remained unchanged.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #66
Don't talk wants to say something else. Manipulating names with context is still information manipulation type 2
What do you mean by this ? When did Yhwach got Conceptual Manipulation for giving powers? I don't see it in his profile.
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No, manipulating names in Bleach verse is CM. Literally.
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Also if DT said is accurate, then remove CM.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #69
Only for bleach ?
Isn't its called double standardsWhy would you remove CM ? It can be both. Also by your logic you should go back and remove CM type 1 for WN Rimuru if you Say information and CM shouldn't be given to same characters.
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Elde, something called verse mechanics, “names” in bleach, has a deep concept. Like “Order” in MG verse.Only for bleach ?
No, DT literally asked at the end why it would be CM (and the screenshot ended, link CRT, so I can read it)
You are using the same argument and scans which are given for CM type 1, and information type 2. I don't know.
Remove CM and replace it with information type 2. I would agree with this, but give information type 2 with the same arguments that are used for CM type 1?
No, thanks.
Peak
He/Him- 2,136
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EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #72
Nowhere in Bleach states as Names are just concepts
You are the one who is saying a character can't have both. That's just your personal preference.
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Wait HUH, DT is actually not referring to “Names” in bleach, he meant in another verse.
Elde, you actually misunderstand it, but “Names” in bleach has a different concept and setting than other verses.
You can't take DT saying and say it is information type 2 based on this.
Elde, you actually misunderstand it, but “Names” in bleach has a different concept and setting than other verses.
You can't take DT saying and say it is information type 2 based on this.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #74
He didn't meant other verses. His last message was based on general condition for manipulating names.
Also this OP is based on for giving yhwach information manipulation. Yhwach giving abilities to others based on letters embedded in their soul and Absorbing back and sustaining his existence that's what we are discussing about. About Ichibe. He removed the abilities Yhwach had. That's what I was talking about when I said information manipulation. Anyway I will wait for DT reply. The arguments are circling around.
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???????? Alright, Elde, you are aware that Names in bleach is literally different to any other verses???
True Name Manipulation: Ichibē can manipulate the true names—the metaphysical representations of, among other things, sentient beings—which grants him power over those he targets with his power.
- Name Identification: Ichibē has the innate ability to determine the true name of all things. He came up with the name “Zanpakutō” and the release names “Shikai” and “Bankai”, and he was the first one to choose all the names of all things in Soul Society. Due to this unique skill, Ichibē also knows the names of every Zanpakutō from the time they are handed to a Shinigami as Asauchi, created by Ōetsu Nimaiya.
Now you don't agree with this and want to replace it with information type 2, sure go ahead, and I would agree with this.
I actually said this:
But Names in bleach has a unique setting and deep concept behind it. So it is verse mechanics and irrelevant to what DT stated.
I will stop derailing as you wish and wait for the staff's response, alr.
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I'm deadass so confused about what we're even talking about rn.
Is the new argument about if the fragments actually contain information within them or not, aren't purely made of information or something else entirely?
Is the new argument about if the fragments actually contain information within them or not, aren't purely made of information or something else entirely?
Lesser_Goddess_Alexia
She/Her- 704
- 415
Chainsawman verse too. Manipulating name in Chainsawman verse is CM, not IM type 2Only for bleach ?
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #78
They are trying to brush it off under the context of Conceptual manipulation. They think nothing in bleach should be considered as information manipulation.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 16,806
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- #79
Unlike chainsawman we have statement for soul fragments being able to contain information.
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"You are just a computer" ya this is data manipulation
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