When They Cry Revisions

[KingPin0422]

@DarkLK

Another question, if I may:

I recall earlier scans implying that Aurora is the world itself and the root of all life. I also remember that you told me that the Voyagers are more like forces that allow functionality of the world embodied by Aurora.

In that regard, could Aurora be akin to Yog-Sothoth?

 

[DarkLK]

Well, that's my theory. In Rewrite, Aurora represented all existence, and the factors of miracle and will provided birth and development for this existence.

Considering that shortly after working and supervising with Rewrite, Ryukishi created Featherine, whose power is connected with stories, which can also be called the all existence, it is quite possible that she (her concept/true nature) is really something like a combined archetype.

 

[Game_Master_Battler]

"The all in one" and "the all existence" incredible

 

[Game_Master_Battler]

If i may ask. Since theres a butload of scans. Whuch are the ones that relate to "Aurora" mentioned above

 

[DarkLK]

Aurora is the essence of life. The world is a form of life. The peak of all things is the pinnacle of this world.

 

[KingPin0422]

So let me get this straight:

• The world, in essence, is a living thing.
• Voyagers are embodiments of fundamental forces that birthed the world and allow it to develop.
• Aurora is the root of all things that live, including the world.

The problem is, I'm struggling to understand one thing: is Aurora more or less fundamental than the laws embodied by Voyagers? Or are they on the same playing field (roughly speaking)?

 

[Game_Master_Battler]

This is literally incredible, just fascinating how crazy this verse is. The more i read the crazier it gets

I knew featherine was nigh omnipotent but i didnt know she had a yog sothoth esque existence. This is so reassuring

 

[DarkLK]

So let me get this straight:

• The world, in essence, is a living thing.
• Voyagers are embodiments of fundamental forces that birthed the world and allow it to develop.
• Aurora is the root of all things that live, including the world.

The problem is, I'm struggling to understand one thing: is Aurora more or less fundamental than the laws embodied by Voyagers? Or are they on the same playing field (roughly speaking)?

Given that Featherine's manifestation is stronger than the manifestations of the Voyagers in the same layers, her concept should also be even more significant. So the variant with composite essence is quite possible. Because I do not know what could be more fundamental than them.

The factors of miracle (unintentional) and will (intention) are basically combined into the existence (story). Something like that. But it's all on the theories level. Although I do not think I'm too far from the truth. Too many coincidences.

 

[Antvasima]

So, are anybody knowledgeable willing to start organising this revision?

 

[Promestein]

I'm ready whenever. I'd like to run individual things past Dark before implementing anything.

 

[DarkLK]

Anything else you need from me?

 

[Jobbo]

Looks like we're good to go then.

 

[DarkLK]

I also promised to correct my suggestion about the third key for Voyagers.

Key 3 (unconscious nature/concept): it is an unconscious meta-conceptual entity that identified with all of the world, and it is assumed that the functions of this role represents a certain quality of God itself; it does not have its own specific territory and its manifestations has no limitations of evolution, and therefore they can move anywhere and potentially evolve as much as possible until merging with the Creator's boundlessness

 

[Promestein]

There's nothing else I need, I just want to make sure, as I'm working on things, that I have everything right and that I'm wording things correctly.

 

[DarkLK]

Just show your explanations here before before you create a blog.

 

[Promestein]

Of course.

Thank you for your help on all of this.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you to both DarkLK and Promestein for helping out with this.

 

[DarkLK]

By the way, a few words about the forms of spiritual beings.

The outward manifestations of spiritual beings are simply the forms they take. Even regular souls are clumps of spiritual energy. Damage and deformation of the form does not necessarily cause real damage.




Some attacks only deform the forms, but some can destroy spiritual structures.


For example, not all attacks that can distort the form of Beatrice actually cause damage to her.


The true form of even an ordinary demon cannot be grasp by human.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

interesting. Also what manga series is the last manga scan from?

 

[DarkLK]

Renai Harem Game Shuuryou no Oshirase ga kuru Koro ni

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Renai Harem Game Shuuryou no Oshirase ga kuru Koro ni

ahh thx and well all of the 07th works are connects in someway yes?

 

[DarkLK]

At least those works that I know use a number of identical metaphysical concepts, have some versions of the same characters (author creates an expy such this to put a direct link between works) or references to a general cosmology. For example, Renai Harem has a Umineko/Higanbana-like magical system and another version of Rika. The Sea of Fragments that includes various fictions as real worlds makes it easy to combine. Technically, even those side works that were created without Ryukishi's participation can be considered as Kakera, but I think it doesn't make much sense to consider them as a source of canonical information about cosmology and metaphysics.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

ahh makes sense *nods*

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Has there been any progress in the analysis of the materials Dark presented and making conclusions?

 

[Antvasima]

We are waiting for Promestein to get enough free time to start the revisions.

 

[Promestein]

I need to write the blog post, which will take a while.

 

[Antvasima]

No problem. Thank you for the help.

 

[Promestein]

Before I get things really going, some scans supporting the exact tiering for the pieces (like 1-C Beatrice).

As of right now, the justifications and scans on the pages are a bit vague, and... inconsistent (Low 1-B Maria still weaker than 1-C Beatrice, with 2-A feats being what is described in the scans).

Secondarily, it would probably be best to give many of the Piece keys Variable statistics, to acknowledge the disparity between the Mystery and Fantasy interpretations of the characters and their abilities.

 

[JBennett]

So out of curiosity what the new tier systme for Umineko is going to be, I vaguely saw it was going to be 1-A for all character of significant level, though again I didn't read it all, but is that tue or is more along the lines of Power and Abilites Revision?

 

[GalaxianAegis]

Maria was "updated" by TMR just before he left the wiki. Thus, changes weren't uniformly applied and didn't make sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, the current Umineko statistics are due to a half-finished revision.

 

[DarkLK]

Before I get things really going, some scans supporting the exact tiering for the pieces (like 1-C Beatrice).

I'm not sure that there is such a thing as the exact tiering for the pieces (especially umineko human domain pieces because of the story specific ). Beatrice' s full potential can somehow be comparable to the Voyagers within the same territory (that is, their manifestations on the same layer).

Beatrice can barely survive the impact of the red key, and also Yasu rewrote the world (human and non human) in accordance with her story. What I can immediately remember about pieces.

Maria has the most problems. I really have no idea what she really can.

Voyagers's Big Bangs is roughly the same thing as the Big Bang in rewrite, where, in addition to the physical level a conceptual level included with the peak of all things. I'm not sure that Mary's universes are comparable to that. Although they can contain spiritual supernatural beings and that means it must contain the natural environment for them, that is, an indefinite wave function and higher dimensions.

 

[Promestein]

Unknown is probably the best bet for them, then. Feats are obviously at least Low 2-C, but we can't really gauge where they should be exactly. Thanks for all your help.

 

[DarkLK]

Well, it's above 2-C. Due to the fact that there are "far higher dimensions", which is "beyond the 5-dimensional wall" (spiritually Hanyuu is no different from ghosts). Even normal observation affects the whole kakera from inside. Also, youkai Kyou has endless versions of the entire Shinra Bansho related to hts concept. Shinra Bansho = all of existence, it is used to denote the universe in a broad sense, as in Rewrite for example.

Unknown and Variable will be pretty good.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah, I understand that, Low 2-C was an intentional lowball.

 

[DarkLK]

Maybe you can just write that this is a physical scale or something like that. And it is higher via hax (especially conceptual ones). Or something like that.

 

[JBennett]

Didn't Yasu only made different versions of the evens of the island? I'm pretty sure she never had any influence outside the island.

 

[JBennett]

Besides I thought the alternant interpertations of the events were created by different people all over the world. Yasu created the first 2 games while Battler created 3-6 while I'm not sure who created 7&8.

The Goats where said to be the different people who were interested on what happened, at least thats what Erika said.

 

[DarkLK]

We are talking about other things. Games are Kakeras. They contain Universes (in a broad sense), no matter how small the actual changes will be there.

We are talking about a piece version. She does not create a game. She is a character in the game.

At their disposal is still an indefinite wave function, not to mention the conceptual levels of existence. Limiting the island only in the world of people. Roughly speaking, this effect on causality through imaginary possibilities.

Inside these imaginary possibilities, they are not limited by the size of the island. Create a mountain cakes larger than an island, turn the island and the environment into a bottomless abyss, blow up the moon, create or change the Universe. Youkais from Higanbana have pocket realms with non-Euclidean geometry and inverse dimensional logic, infinite versions of the whole Universe, etc, although they are much weaker than Beatrice and have smaller territories.

And we have three different views on the episodes:

1. Forgeries (text interpretations of the island massacre)
2. Meta-games (Battler and Beatrice battles on her territory)
3. VN episodes (future Ange's story is also added)

 

[Game_Master_Battler]

That reminds me, dark you had stated "Someone thinks that I want to say that Bern and Lambda as witches are comparable to Featherine. Of course not, Featherine has an abnormally powerful manifestation. She actually reached the Creator and survived. For all intents and purposes in the lower domains, she is just like the Creator itself."

But if i recall correctly didnt featherine just reach the final doorstep? the last layer? The highest heights? dont recall her reaching the actual CREATOR itself. I thought to it as featherine reached the door to his house. Not that she actually met him. Because all who become one with the creator are completely erased