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The Only Thing They Fear Is... You - DOOM Revisions (Part 1)

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@ShionAH Stop with that attitude, it’s not my fault that you didn’t link the right page. Also that scan on the wiki doesn’t tell me much on the demons warping the environment, it’s just saying that demons are invading the Earth and are taking over.

You haven’t even given me any proper scans of warping reality, especially when it’s supposedly done by their own essence. So actually give me a scan that flat out says that the Essence itself can warp reality.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@ShionAH Stop with that attitude, it’s not my fault that you didn’t link the right page.
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I took it from the wiki since those were accepted.
Theglassman12 said:
You haven’t even given me any proper scans of warping reality, especially when it’s supposedly done by their own essence. So actually give me a scan that flat out says that the Essence itself can warp reality.
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I already showed you that Essence itself governs Reality including stuff like Urdak and Hell, which is why manipulating Essence would also allow one to manipulate Reality.
 
Urdak and Hell is not the same as any random demon with Essence. Unless you wanna argue that there’s two types of Essence, and Urdak and Hell’s Essence can do reality warping and space time hax then sure, but every single demon having this I find hard to believe without some solid evidence that their essence can do this.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Urdak and Hell is not the same as any random demon with Essence. Unless you wanna argue that there’s two types of Essence, and Urdak and Hell’s Essence can do reality warping and space time hax then sure, but every single demon having this I find hard to believe without some solid evidence that their essence can do this.
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Since every single demon can passively change Reality I think saying they can manipulate Reality by affecting Essence is not much of a strech. Plus I dont get your point, Essence governs Reality, Space and Time so technically any character who can affect Essence can affect these. Again this is all supported and does not really have any anti arguments.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Urdak and Hell is not the same as any random demon with Essence. Unless you wanna argue that there’s two types of Essence, and Urdak and Hell’s Essence can do reality warping and space time hax then sure, but every single demon having this I find hard to believe without some solid evidence that their essence can do this.
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could this (the right paragraph) be a evidence? urdak (a dimension, a space-time continuum) was stated to be made out of the essence (or souls) of some random makyrs, as well as the father creating the first makyr society out of his essence alone
 
@ShionAH What scan shows the demons warping reality through their Essence? You’ve not posted that at all.

@Spicy78 again that sounds more like a feat for the dimension than anything. At the very best, stuff like reality warping and space time hax should only be viable for the actual dimensions themselves and not every single demon.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@ShionAH What scan shows the demons warping reality through their Essence? You’ve not posted that at all.
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I did, its above. Even the weakest demons can passively warp Reality

Again, Essence governs Space, Time and Reality itself. Being able to affect Essence would mean you can affect these too, think of it like this. Imagine a verse where souls contain minds and concepts, affecting the soul would mean you can also affect mind and concept.

Same logic applies here, Essence contains Reality, Time and Space so affecting Essence would mean you can affect Reality, Time and Space.
 
Theglassman12 said:
again that sounds more like a feat for the dimension than anything. At the very best, stuff like reality warping and space time hax should only be viable for the actual dimensions themselves and not every single demon.
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i'm sorry but i don't undertand your point. you're saying that by manipulating only the dimensions' essence (directly manipulating urdak and hell essences) you can manipulate space and time in their own right, right?

that’s not true. as it is stated, the existance of urdak itself (so, basically, its essence as well) is made up of makyr's essences, which means that the essence of random beings can make an entire realm, so its consciousness, essence AND space and time. this is not as vague as the manipulating space through an unknown process involving essences, this statement is directly saying: manipulating essences = being able to create space-time continuums
 
Planck69 said:
The higher dimension part is probably the only thing here that might be relevant to tiering. Or it would be if it had elaboration beyond that. The other scan just has a mention of "transcendent" technology, which isn't tierable at all.
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Georredannea15 said:
If I interpret the scans in general, it is stated here that Urdak is a higher dimension that is a realm beyond technology, that is, instead of comparing the mortal realm/mortal timelines with Urdak, it only compares human technology with Urdak.
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Georredannea15 said:
The only phrase left is "higher dimension" but there are 2 problems here;

1- High dimension according to what?
2- Is the expression "higher dimension" really used in a spatial sense?
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Georredannea15 said:
But I didn't see the answer to these there... So "higher dimension" by itself is a very muddy area, an empty and unsupported statement... So I don't think it will be enough.
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tbh, this scan states that urdak is straight up a higher reality/plane of existence relative to earth's universe (and outside of the universe's bounds; so this is where the statement of urdak being completely inaccesible to the lower dimensions (as much as a 3 space-dimensional character cannot access a 4 space-dimensional construct) would come in place as a supporting statement), so the word "dimension" could be a synonym for plane of existence/reality in all the scans
 
@Spicy78 unless you have proof that an individual demon’s essence can do the same type of reality warping and space time hax then sure. But using an entire dimension for your argument when demons aren’t by default dimensions in DOOM is a massive stretch.

@ShionAH You mean the dead links that I posted that you only showed one of two actual correct links for? Your only argument for Essence having space time and reality hax is through scaling to an entire dimension, something that normal demons are explicitly not.
 
You are stone walling this right now. I showed you the proof you wanted yet you are denying? Wow.

Essence can create entire Realities and Space-Times. Which is why affecting Essence means you can affect the things it governs
 
Theglassman12 said:
unless you have proof that an individual demon’s essence can do the same type of reality warping and space time hax then sure. But using an entire dimension for your argument when demons aren’t by default dimensions in DOOM is a massive stretch.
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WHAT???? i'm not using the essence of a dimension as the basis of my argument, i'm using the essence of maykrs, which were able to create space and time (urdak) from scratch

the dimension's essence WASN'T the thing being manipulated, it was the BYPRODUCT of manipulating a group of beings' (maykrs) essence

again, manipulating BEINGS' essences (maykrs in this case. AGAIN, MAKYRS ESSENCES were the thing being used) = creating space and time (urdak was the thing CREATED, NOT MANIPULATED)
 
@Firestorm808 The other general abilities for Essence I'm fine with, the Reality Warping and Space time hax that's being argued I disagree with this scaling to literally every single demon/individual's essence.

@ShionAH So we're gonna ignore how one of your scans got privated? Got it.

@Spicy78 If it was just created and not manipulated, that just makes it even more clear that it's not manipulating space and time, that's at best a creation feat, not space time hax.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Firestorm808 The other general abilities for Essence I'm fine with, the Reality Warping and Space time hax that's being argued I disagree with this scaling to literally every single demon/individual's essence.

@ShionAH So we're gonna ignore how one of your scans got privated? Got it.

@Spicy78 If it was just created and not manipulated, that just makes it even more clear that it's not manipulating space and time, that's at best a creation feat, not space time hax.
Click to expand...
Any discussion regarding abilities will be done in a separate thread. For now, we can put you down as agreeing to Essence being a universal power system concept in general?
 
Okay, so we have reached a general staff consensus that Essence is the verses' power system. A reminder that any discussion regarding abilities will be done in a separate thread.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Planck69 @Theglassman12

Please restate your stances regarding the cosmology proposal of 5D, 6D, etc.
 
Not really convinced on a majority of the arguments, i basically share the same thoughts as Planck.
 
I'm fine with Urdak being Low 1-C, as for Hell, I agree Low 1-C minimum, unsure/neutral about 6-D and thus baseline 1-C for Hell. But do not need to repeat a disagreement for Low 1-A.
 
Okay so two people agree with Low 1-C, Two people say it should only be possibly

Do we need one more staff member?
 
I am honestly going for 6D Urdak. Cus in TAG 1, its shown in the Holt Monitor that its the 6th Dimension. And thats consistent with it constantly being stated as a higher existential plane.



I do not know if this has already been talked about and/or debunked, please inform me if so.

P.S. Intern is the GOAT for helpin Doomguy when no one else would
 
I see, but it being "unused" in the game itself means that its not valid tho right?

BTW, can Doomguy, Samur Maykr and Davoth have 7-D in Statistics Values for their AP section, for clarification?
 
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