What tier is TOAA now after this pathetic display?

[Malomtek]

This also implies that the AAO that Thanos absorbed was merely part of a greater whole.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

Here is the second half of the preview by the way: https://thanosfarm.tumblr.com/post/187427178353/thanos-the-infinity-ending-preview-22-the
It certainly doesn't seem like we misunderstood anything from the context.

That actually confirms the whole AAO is an avatar theory as it is stated in that preview

"ageing i have slipped into the sate of omnipotents. But this time not by choice and I am mearly a PART of the all powerful but not in control"

nice the theory is confirmed and AAO is simply just an avatar of the all powerful/Toaa

 

[AshenCrow777]

So simply like Darkseids true form good that means they didn't F up and TOAA is still the OG One Above all

 

[Sir_sun_man]

So simply like Darkseids true form good that means they didn't F up and TOAA is still the OG One Above all

which is good because i was actually getting worried for a sec there

 

[Owennoctis]

I'm sorry but is there any evidence of this statement? scans?

Try basic reading comprehension.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/fc0b7bfd550351c3e4292c14db534236/tumblr_px69zycCr81ynmxwho8_1280.jpg

"Again I have slipped into the state of omnipotence. But this time not by choice. And I am merely part of the all-powerful, but not in control."

Thanos seems to have basically been forced by higher powers (such as higher manifestations of TOAA and maybe even LT) into his current state.

so no concrete evidence? cool

We are just playing guessing game at this point

it's more likely he's talking about the alternate thanos that convinced him to absorb all the abstracts, is the one who's in control.

it's very likely thanos will be defeated by himself again after the merge in this storyline (kinda like that old king thanos crap)

https://imgur.com/NLlR9uH

"I have kept myself seperate from my other self's grand design...etc"

 

[Sir_sun_man]

so no concrete evidence? cool

We are just playing guessing game at this point

it's more likely he's talking about the alternate thanos that convinced him to absorb all the abstracts, is the one who's in control.

it's very likely thanos will be defeated by himself again in this storyline (kinda like that old king thanos crap)

https://imgur.com/NLlR9uH

"I have kept myself seperate from my other self's grand design...etc"

have you notice the fact that thanos in that one is not a gaint cosmic floating head

 

[Malomtek]

Try basic reading comprehension.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/fc0b7bfd550351c3e4292c14db534236/tumblr_px69zycCr81ynmxwho8_1280.jpg

"Again I have slipped into the state of omnipotence. But this time not by choice. And I am merely part of the all-powerful, but not in control."

Thanos seems to have basically been forced by higher powers (such as higher manifestations of TOAA and maybe even LT) into his current state.


so no concrete evidence? cool

We are just playing guessing game at this point

it's more likely he's talking about the alternate thanos that convinced him to absorb all the abstracts, is the one who's in control.

it's very likely thanos will be defeated by himself again after the merge in this storyline (kinda like that old king thanos crap)

https://imgur.com/NLlR9uH

"I have kept myself seperate from my other self's grand design...etc"

>implying that direct statements aren't concrete evidence

Stop.

And stuff like "I was quite literally press ganged into this situation" and "my warden" and "first, by [my] choice, later, by [another's] divine edict" only really shows that this is another HotU situation, where the Above All Others/One Above All was in control all the time.

But then again, we'll have to wait for the full comic to find out for sure.

 

[SageM]

This also implies that the AAO that Thanos absorbed was merely part of a greater whole.

Seems to be the same type of deal as with Pralaya in DC comics, the part that we see and the part that Swamp Thing defeated are only a fraction of a greater and far more transcendent being that exists on a level our puny minds can't even begin to fathom or grasp.

So its quite likely that the AAO hasn't truly been defeated and that Thanos is once again playing into his hands.

After all, Thanos only gained a momentary glimpse of the AAO's powers and plans when he had omni-reality awareness.

So its doubtful that he could ever truly defeat or fathom his power in full...

Its possible that even the Cosmic Regulator was part of his plans for Thanos.

 

[Hunterzillas]

Is there any proof as to AAO's tiering? I can accept him as an avatar of TOAA, but is there a statement that makes sense for how we list him?

 

[Antvasima]

Look, for those of us who have read the entire story, present-day Thanos was mind-controlled by a more powerful future version of himself, and forced to use the regulators to absorb all cosmic entities in his universe, like the future version had done before. Then the future and present versions of Thanos merged together with the future version still in charge, and went on to absorb the Living Tribunal and the AAO. The present version of Thanos then stated that his future version was still in charge, with himself as a small aspect of the greater entity.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

wait hold on a ******* moment

we don't consider hunger canon and it comes from this line of comics

why are we useing this exactly?

 

[Antvasima]

The storyline contradicts the regular Marvel universe continuity, but still happens in one of the timelines of the Marvel multiverse, so since it involves a multiversal entity, we can still use it.

 

[Owennoctis]

Are we just gonna all sit here and pretend Starlin didn't completely retcon TOAA? so we can keep going with the avatar theory till the end of times?

that's some grade A damage control right there

 

[Antvasima]

I am inclined to agree with Owen, but given how many Marvel fans there are in this wiki, it is unlikely that we will get this changed.

Mind you, the current Marvel has virtually no resemblance to what it once was, but many remain loyal to it anyway.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

Wouldn't that just rename a key, though?

 

[JackJoyce]

AAO is the supreme being and ruler of all realities under Starlin, Starlin is marvel canon. as far as current marvel cosmology is concerned AAO is TOAA. There's no evidence to suggest otherwise. In other words, TOAA being Jack Kirby's avatar is likely retconned at this point. So what's the reason of TOAA still staying at tier-0 again?

https://imgur.com/sXgdOJL

I agree with this

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

People being Marvel fans essentially has nothing to do with this. Some people just disagree with what Owen is saying (Like myself).

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. My apologies if I was being unfair.

 

[Unoriginal_Memes]

No problem.

 

[Antvasima]

To explain a bit, I am just obsessed with that everything in this wiki should be as accurate as possible, and since I know a lot about Marvel and its inconsistencies, my impression is that our current scaling for it is likely exaggerated in some respects.

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

The problem is that we might lowball things too far if we're not careful.

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that is a valid point.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

TOAA was never jack kirby avatar it's basically the opposite... TOAA is basically the embodiment of writers and no TOAA hasnt been rectonned because many comics in 2019 like agent deadpool, cosmic ghost rider and Al ewing (ultimates and no road home etc) comics still uses toaa as writers and view his creation like fiction.

 

[Sorari]

TOAA was never jack kirby avatar it's basically the opposite... TOAA is basically the embodiment of writers
and no TOAA hasnt been rectonned because many comics in 2019 like agent deadpool, cosmic ghost rider and Al ewing (ultimates and no road home etc) comics still uses toaa as writers and view his creation like fiction.

It's different takes on the supreme being. Some like the Grant Morrison take where the higher cosmic agents correlate to the page, the audience, the writer, or the some other metafictional concept.

Others, like Jim Starlin, prefer the supreme to be more like God. But in the previews we do see that Jim Starlin throws us a metafictional curveball by having the reader becoming part of Thanos . This implies that TOAA/AOO embodies even our reality, so he's not merely the writer, but everything in our universe (from a real-life-non-metafictonal standpoint this is of course nonsense, but so is the writer appearing on the page).

The problem I have with the Grant Morrison take on the supreme is that it usually goes against the cameos we've see. Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and a number of other writers have cameos where they're clearly not omnipotent. She Hulk even killed her writer, John Bryne, in Sensational She Hulk #50.

Personally I think metafictional interpretations should be dismissed altogether and we should focus on feats and scaling, after all those Tier 0 aren't necessarily omnipotent.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

TOAA was never jack kirby avatar it's basically the opposite... TOAA is basically the embodiment of writers
and no TOAA hasnt been rectonned because many comics in 2019 like agent deadpool, cosmic ghost rider and Al ewing (ultimates and no road home etc) comics still uses toaa as writers and view his creation like fiction.

It's different takes on the supreme being. Some like the Grant Morrison take where the higher cosmic agents correlate to the page, the audience, the writer, or the some other metafictional concept.
Others, like Jim Starlin, prefer the supreme to be more like God. But in the previews we do see that Jim Starlin throws us a metafictional curveball by having the reader becoming part of Thanos . This implies that TOAA/AOO embodies even our reality, so he's not merely the writer, but everything in our universe (from a real-life-non-metafictonal standpoint this is of course nonsense, but so is the writer appearing on the page).

The problem I have with the Grant Morrison take on the supreme is that it usually goes against the cameos we've see. Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and a number of other writers have cameos where they're clearly not omnipotent. She Hulk even killed her writer, John Bryne, in Sensational She Hulk #50.

Personally I think metafictional interpretations should be dismissed altogether and we should focus on feats and scaling, after all those Tier 0 aren't necessarily omnipotent.

The thing is the feats that came from al ewing stories are the one that showed that toaa transcend all of marvel and its stories (multiple times it is showed he is the creator of all stories.) while this fodder God only transcend time and space.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Thanos is just shown as one with all universes throughout all time within this comicbook, and again, the Beyonders destroying all universes was enough to get rid of the entire Marvel multiverse, so I think that we likely severely exaggerate the current Marvel cosmology.

Stop playing Ant. Knowing that Ultimates series showed feats above tier 2. Knowing that Multi eternity in ultimates has the same concepts as the previous Multiverse. The multiverse beyonders destroyed have superflow and neutral zone...

 

[Sorari]

TOAA was never jack kirby avatar it's basically the opposite... TOAA is basically the embodiment of writers
and no TOAA hasnt been rectonned because many comics in 2019 like agent deadpool, cosmic ghost rider and Al ewing (ultimates and no road home etc) comics still uses toaa as writers and view his creation like fiction.

It's different takes on the supreme being. Some like the Grant Morrison take where the higher cosmic agents correlate to the page, the audience, the writer, or the some other metafictional concept.
Others, like Jim Starlin, prefer the supreme to be more like God. But in the previews we do see that Jim Starlin throws us a metafictional curveball by having the reader becoming part of Thanos . This implies that TOAA/AOO embodies even our reality, so he's not merely the writer, but everything in our universe (from a real-life-non-metafictonal standpoint this is of course nonsense, but so is the writer appearing on the page).

The problem I have with the Grant Morrison take on the supreme is that it usually goes against the cameos we've see. Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, and a number of other writers have cameos where they're clearly not omnipotent. She Hulk even killed her writer, John Bryne, in Sensational She Hulk #50.

Personally I think metafictional interpretations should be dismissed altogether and we should focus on feats and scaling, after all those Tier 0 aren't necessarily omnipotent.

The thing is the feats that came from al ewing stories are the one that showed that toaa transcend all of marvel and its stories (multiple times it is showed he is the creator of all stories.) while this fodder God only transcend time and space.

You're talking about this page ?

There's also a Tweet where Ewing gives his opinion on TOAA and describes it as a gestalt of every writer/editor/reader.

This doesn't mean that he's truley without limit however, or that he can't be written to to a fault. Didn't the writer in Deadpool lose his pen?

And metafictionally Starlin's TOAA is implied to be greater because he's truley omnipresent in all of Marvel, as well as outside it (the real world) we're shown this by having Thanos becoming the real life reader . So you can't use the metafictional argument against him here.

 

[Antvasima]

Stop playing Ant. Knowing that Ultimates series showed feats above tier 2. Knowing that Multi eternity in ultimates has the same concepts as the previous Multiverse. The multiverse beyonders destroyed have superflow and neutral zone...

Well, I have a hard time instantly remembering every thread that I have been involved in, but during Time Runs Out and Secret Wars, the Marvel multiverse was legitimately destroyed merely by colliding all of the universes against each other, and in Ultimates Multi-Eternity was fundamentally changed and strengthened by erasing the borders between his universes, and was outpowered by the First Firmament who was a giant universe without borders within him. As such, my interpretation seems to be valid.

 

[Antvasima]

@Sorari

Just because there are parallell universes within the Marvel universe in which the stories of other universes appear in comicbooks, this does not make them the actual real world. Grant Morrison's DC Comics, such as Multiversity, have also explored this idea.

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

@Sorari

No... Have you read No Road Home yet?

 

[The_Tetromino_King]

Stop playing Ant. Knowing that Ultimates series showed feats above tier 2. Knowing that Multi eternity in ultimates has the same concepts as the previous Multiverse. The multiverse beyonders destroyed have superflow and neutral zone...

Well, I have a hard time instantly remembering every thread that I have been involved in, but during Time Runs Out and Secret Wars, the Marvel multiverse was legitimately destroyed merely by colliding all of the universes against each other, and in Ultimates Multi-Eternity was fundamentally changed and strengthened by erasing the borders between his universes, and was outpowered by the First Firmament who was a giant universe without borders within him. As such, my interpretation seems to be valid.

Superflow was destroyed from the inside which is called the highest level of existence... Yet he still live and can be only be destroyed from the outside.

 

[Antvasima]

Please elaborate.

 

[Sorari]

@Sorari

Just because there are parallell universes within the Marvel universe in which the stories of other universes appear in comicbooks, this does not make them the actual real world. Grant Morrison's DC Comics, such as Multiversity, have also explored this idea.

I think it's very explicit. "If you ARE, I am part of you." He's clearly breaking the 4th wall here imo. But granted, you could definitely interpret this as a Earth-Prime deal (a fictional Earth with the characteristics of the real world).

@Sorari

No... Have you read No Road Home yet?

Can you please be a bit more specific when you reply? It's difficult to reply to a point when you're just throwing out the name of a 10 issue miniseries.

No Road Home has Tom Brevort (Executive Editor) appearing as a normal human being, and Ewing is a co-writer of this story.

Also The One Above All is equated with the House of Ideas. And that Nyx was going to overwrite it before getting pumbled by everything from Street Tiers to Super Humans.

To me this isn't anywhere near the level of Starlin's TOAA, who [in my interpertation] is literally everything fictional and metafictional.

 

[Malomtek]

Look, for those of us who have read the entire story, present-day Thanos was mind-controlled by a more powerful future version of himself, and forced to use the regulators to absorb all cosmic entities in his universe, like the future version had done before. Then the future and present versions of Thanos merged together with the future version still in charge, and went on to absorb the Living Tribunal and the AAO. The present version of Thanos then stated that his future version was still in charge, with himself as a small aspect of the greater entity.

>for those of us who have read the entire story

The entire story isn't even out yet. This just seems presumptuous and smarmy.

And Thanos merged with his future self, yet he still had a "warden" that he had to follow the "divine edict" of. Sounds like a completely different entity is really in charge here.

 

[The_Impress]

Not to interrupt, but this is turning slightly toxic and being derailed. Most have agreed to wait for the story to be published first before talking about any downgrades. I recommend closing this thread before it goes further south

 

[Skalt711]

I'm on Zark's position

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will close this then.

I did not mean any offence though.