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Wendy's Enchantment and Dragon Force Multipliers

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No, I'm using DB to compare the cases and I found that in both verses there are people getting stomped and then stomping the enemy with a 2-3x multiplier in between. And as far as I know, there are no inconsistencies with such multiplier yet isn't accepted (most likely due to how absurd is that premise).
 
@NomsNoms

Huh... Why?

@Calaca

I can't speak on Dragon Ball, I wasn't there when it was rejected and I don't have enough knowledge as to why it was rejected, I know Dragon Ball based the increase on Power levels and it didn't have actual in-story multipliers, these two things don't apply to Fairy Tail at all, once again if we're using other verses as arguments, Seven Deadly Sins has 2x multiplier between characters who stomp and God of Highschool has insanely large multipliers like 190,000x and 250,000x where characters can still keep up with each other, I just want the Dragon Force Multiplier to stand on it's own merit and not based on other verses, if it doesn't get accepted later on, that's fine, but I want more reasoning than just using other verses scenarios as a benchmark for a different verse
 
we are using Natsu's quote in the fight against Zero, Wendy clearly showing superiority to her Enchant and the quote that the Dual Element mode is compared to Dragon Force.

Is this about the characters being trampled because of Wendy? but what she showed is consistent with Natsu's quote in the fight against Zero
 
I'm neutral, but multipliers are heavily case by case; it's based on a combination of consistency or in depth explanation.
 
Wendy's Enchantments double her Attack Power, Speed, and Defense, Dragon Force as an Amp is superior in each of these stats to the Enchantments, within the same fight, Wendy's Enchantments are shown to be weaker and slower than her Dragon Force, there is another statement that Natsu makes that Dragon Force has increased his power by 2 to 3 times, or even higher, Dragon Force in the series has always been shown to be a boost in all stats and is quite large increase, therefore Dragon Force works as a Multiplier to all stats by at least 2x

I think this is fair and consistent, it's not even that large a change within the verse, just some "higher with said transformation" gets an actual rating now
 
It's quite simple, if NNT's relies on stomp chains to get multipliers out of nothing, that's blatantly stupid and shouldn't be used as argument.

I know nothing about TGoH so I can't speak about its case.

DB has just received the proper treatment about its multipliers when it comes to speed, actually. The current revisions are dealing that much better than before.

The thing is simple, if other verses do it and there are reasons to believe they shouldn't, that doesn't grant green light to other verses. Two wrongs don't make a right, and I'm quite sure that our standards for multipliers are much stricter than this. Especially when something like the suggested scaling chain is brought up to discussion.
 
I find it very wrong to disregard something just because it is not accepted in another verse and has a different context behind it.

they have a "probably bigger" but now they will gain a justification for being in such a tier
 
NNT actually uses Full Counter as a multiplier as it is stated to double to triple attack power, not just stomp chains, it's actually on the multiplier page

I'm not saying we should use other verses as examples for Fairy Tail, I think this should be treated as it's own case, and whether or not it gets accepted should be based primarily on the verse itself

If every staff member is neutral... what exactly do we do here...
 
Going back on-topic, it seems arbitrary to apply the multiplier to anyone else besides Natsu and Wendy (and in their respective arcs). Power-scaling greatly varies between Slayers and the power jumps they get are usually considerably different from each other. The best you can get is the 2x multiplier for specific things like DF.

I still think that scaling chain is a much better way to scale instead of giving arbitrary numbers with no feats to back them up. Even if we have two Sub-Rel feats now, the scaling for the MHS+ seems to be made out of convenience to get solid numbers without feats (and I still think MHS+ is too much for BoS). Using a 2x multiplier to get around a UNO reverse-stomp case. Wendy fighting Ezel is the worst of all, since with a, what? 3x multiplier is the best you could get? she blitzed someone who was outpacing her 2x faster self.

I'm primarily against using this to scale speed without confirmation. Natsu's power got an increase, not his speed. If he did it better against Zero then that's good for him. It's a speed amp with no stated multiplier, so the scaling chain suffers a change right there.

Erza's statement is also awfully vague. "It's like when he ate Etherion energy" could mean that it's the same effect of eating Etherion but not necessarily at the same level. So there's another problem.

On the other side, stomping a Spriggan isn't definitive evidence of blitzing unless shown. They can hit way harder and still be comparable in speed. Natsu could keep up with Zeref in any of his forms, whether Igneel's Fire or Dragon Force, and even Savage Dragon Natsu clashed evenly with Zeref, but overpowering him to hell and back. Speed amps in Fairy Tail are a very rare thing that happens not too often, and little mages have shown speed amps in the first place (people like Erza with one of her armors, Jellal and Wendy come up to my mind).

Dragon Force Natsu would get a speed amp, tho. I now remember that he kept up with Jellal's Meteor.
 
Alright, so you feel that it shouldn't apply speed, those are some good points you brought up, I can agree with that to an extent, speed increases are far more vague, Erza's the one who performed the feat and yet she has no Speed Amps, so it makes snese not to randomly amp people with speed multipliers

What about Attack Power though, do you think that the 2x multiplier can be applied universally to Attack Power, like with Gajeel and Wendy's Dragon Forces, I think the Attack Power Amp is far more reliable and consistent
 
For Dragon Force, yes, it might be good. For Dual Element Slayer Magic, however, I disagree. It's based on a vague statement with no specific language in it.

For all we know, Erza might be referring to the fact that Natsu got a power up from another element rather than being as powerful as that.
 
Dragon Force Amps as 2x to Attack Power seems good to me, I was always kinda not ok with the speed amp anyways, it just seemed like too big a jump to me

Initial Duel Element Modes are like a case of adding one's power to themselves, whenever a Dragon Slayer eats a character who is stronger than them's power to themselves, they reach said characters power level, for example...

Natsu ate Jellal's Power and surpassed him

Natsu ate Laxus's Power, he reached his level and surpassed it

Gajeel eats Rogue's shadow and surpasses his new form

Wendy eats air from Face and can now destroy it

Natsu ate Atlas Flames Power, he can now overpower Motherglare

Gajeel eats Bloodman's Bane Particles and surpasses him by a good amount

Natsu eats Ignia's Power and he can now wreck Mercphobia

Eating another characters power and then adding it to their own seems to be the result of the Initial Duel Element Mode and other dragon slayer intakes, like after they use up the form for the first time, the magic power of the other person disappears, but the element remains

So maybe we just treat Initial Duel Element Modes as Person A+Person B's Power?
 
Shouldn't we give Gajeel a Power and Resistance Multiplier? when he uses his iron scales happy said his power and stamina doubled

and after Natsu ate the flames he got stronger than Gajeel
 
This was actually brought up before. The multipliers were deemed inconsistent and we had to throw that out for DF
 
When has been shown Sting's DF increase speed?

@Mitch adding one power to another seems good if the result seems to suggest that, yes.
 
The Calaca said:
When has been shown Sting's DF increase speed?

@Mitch adding one power to another seems good if the result seems to suggest that, yes.
Click to expand...
in the same chapter he uses the first time
 
AnonymousBlank said:
We aren't saying DF is x2 tho, we are saying it is at least but unquantifiably above x2, which is true.
Click to expand...
If that's the case then what would be the point in the multipliers if we don't even know what it is?
 
Also how is Natsu DF better than Wendy's? DF is a multiplier no matter what that would be the same as any other DS. Sorry but that honestly makes no sense

I am probably confusing myself but if Wendy enchantment is "doubled" then how would we use DF as "At Least 2x" essentially that would pretty much be saying that DF is stronger then enchantment but also almost equal to each other

EDIT: yeah rereading it again it's like "hey DF is above enchantments that's a double (2x) stat but let's also make DF 2x even though it's stronger"
 
Yes, we're saying that DF is more than 2X, just unquantifiably so. But we know that it is at least 2X which is what we are attempting to apply.
 
If we don't even have a actual statement for DF multiplier then there would be no point for this. We can't just give it a 2x just cause it's better then something else with no statement
 
So to summarize the last arguments:

  • There's a multiplier for DF's power, but not its speed.
  • The statement used to compare DESM to DF is vague and shouldn't be used to apply any multiplier.
 
DF multiplier doesn't even have a statement either. Not only it can be inconsistent but to use "multiplier" cause it's better then another powerup is something that shouldn't even be used
 
@BlackeJan

Official Japanese Scans say Wendy's Enchantments literally double her power, so since Dragon Force is stronger, it's at least a 2x amp

@Calaca

Dragon Force is a 2x multiplier for power

Duel Element Modes is Person A+Person B's power

These are the conslusions
 
BlackeJan said:
If we don't even have a actual statement for DF multiplier then there would be no point for this. We can't just give it a 2x just cause it's better then something else with no statement
Click to expand...
"Blacke it comes from Dragon Force being a greater amp than Wendy's enchantments which are a 2X multiplier. Read the OP."
 
I'd apply that multiplier to Wendy's speed only for the reasons I mentioned above, leaving the rest as unquantifiable for the shaky jumps they perform with it. I can see this being a thing for Wendy since she's the only DS who has a way to amp her speed.
 
Why would we give it a multiplier when it is only coming from something that has ITS OWN multiplier? I get that it is stronger then a powerup but that doesn't mean we should just give it that

@Dragon

I have read the OP 3 times to make sure I knew what I've read
 
BlackeJan said:
Why would we give it a multiplier when it is only coming from something that has ITS OWN multiplier? I get that it is stronger then a powerup but that doesn't mean we should just give it that

@Dragon

I have read the OP 3 times to make sure I knew what I've read
Click to expand...
It's A > B logic. Enchantments have a 2X multiplier. Dragon Force makes you stronger than what an Enchantment does. Dragon Force is greater than a 2X multiplier. Therefore, you can double the strength of Dragon Force users from their base form.
 
Are we even allowed to do this? cause this would be the 1st time that this is ok, im honestly neutral about this and I think it's better to have its own statement then to rely on something else

It can be A > B logic yeah but tbh unless it has its own statement then this honestly just bothers me
 
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