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Wendy's Enchantment and Dragon Force Multipliers

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It's sort of implied that natsu can use his FDKM attacks in his stronger modes such as DF and SDFM given they are both already far above his FDKM.

Now that could change in the future, but for now I think we shouldn't multiply FDKM into his strongest forms and do what Mitch said and just scale the god above the top tiers in terms of speed.


@Mitch

I saw this in an earlier post but why exactly do we scale base Wendy to half the 2.02 gigaton feat? Wasn't she able to contend with Dimeria and when Irene stole her body, she was able to toss erza in her regular armors around quite easlily.
 
Zackra1799 said:
It's sort of implied that natsu can use his FDKM attacks in his stronger modes such as DF and SDFM given they are both already far above his FDKM.

Now that could change in the future, but for now I think we shouldn't multiply FDKM into his strongest forms and do what Mitch said and just scale the god above the top tiers in terms of speed.


@Mitch

I saw this in an earlier post but why exactly do we scale base Wendy to half the 2.02 gigaton feat? Wasn't she able to contend with Dimeria and when Irene stole her body, she was able to body erza in her regular armors quite easlily.
Click to expand...
why should we not do this?

As I said, Seven Flames must scale with Sting and have their Attributes doubled in the final atk against Acnologia. Is there anything that prevents SF from scaling with Sting?

I think she scales in half compared to Elfman and Lisanna, who beat Ajeel, but I agree she managed to hurt Erza and Dimaria and should scale to 2.02 Gigatons
 
@Zakra

Base Wendy just isn't consistently Spriggan level, she can kinda hurt them a tiny bit, but only when she is with Sherria, her Dragon Force can hurt Spriggan level characters on her own but she can't beat them, so her Dragon Force Alone scales to Spriggan level, using the multiplier backwards, she's half as strong as Spriggan level, possibly weaker, Base Wendy just isn't strong enough and her tossing Around Erza is likely cause Erza didn't want to fight back, that and it's likely an Outlier, I'm just willing to scale her to characters like Fire Dragon King Mode Natsu and Dragon Force Natsu
 
Does Everyone agree with this

In X784

Speed:

  • Massively Hypersonic+ (Mach 2763.4): Dragon Force and Lightning Fire Dragon Mode Natsu, Jellal, Laxus, Gildarts, Makarov, Hades, Bluenote
In X791

Attack Potency:

  • 7-B (51.6 Megatons): Initial Iron Shadow Dragon Mode Gajeel
Speed:

  • Massively Hypersonic+ (Mach 2763.4): Pretty Much Everyone in X791
  • Massively Hypersonic+ (Mach 5526.8): Dragon Force Natsu, Initial Iron Shadow Dragon Mode Gajeel (He blitzes everyone)
In X792

Attack Potency:

  • High 7-A+ (4.04 Gigatons): Natsu (Fire Dragon King Mode, END, Dragonification), 2nd Devil Slayer Mark Gray, Dragon Force Gajeel, Strongest Armors Erza, Mirajane Alegria, Base Laxus, Jellal, Dragon Cry Absorbed Animus
  • 6-C (4.3 Gigatons): Red Lightning Dragon Mode Laxus
  • 6-C (8.08 Gigatons): White Shadow Dragon Force Sting, Larcade, Base Irene, Base August, Gildarts
Speed:

  • Sub-Relativistic (4.46% SoL): Pretty Much Everyone who is High 7-A+
  • Sub-Relativistic+ (5% SoL): Red Lightning Dragon Mode Laxus
  • Sub-Relativistic+ (8.92% SoL): White Shadow Dragon Force Sting, Larcade, Irene, August, Gildarts, Base Zeref, Human Acnologia
  • At least Sub-Relativistic+, possibly Relativistic (8.92 to 10% SoL): All God Tiers
100 Year Quest

Attack Potency:

  • 6-C (16.16 Gigatons): Fire Dragon King Mode Natsu, Dragon Sword Erza, Red Lightning Mode Laxus
Speed:

  • Sub-Relativistic+ (6.4% SoL): Fire Dragon King Mode Natsu
  • At least Sub-Relativistic+, possibly Relativistic (8.92 to 10% SoL): All God Tiers
 
Laxus' profile says in X792 Base Laxus is comparable to Fire Dragon King Mode Natsu so wouldn't Red Lightning Dragon Mode Laxus also be 8.08 Gigatons?
 
I agree with that, but I still think SF + DF would put the God Tiers in Relativist

honestly, is there any reason not to climb a God Tier with Sting ?

if it's because he didn't do it, then... The first time you eat an element, its power increases by 2x, so does Natsu Seven Flames have a 2x multiplier for each of the absorbed elements? Anger may also explain Natsu's sudden surge of power to combat Acnologia

if we use that then seven flames would have a multiplier and would be superior to any of the other dragon slayers

2.2 * 12 = 26.4 * 2 = 52.8

Either we use the Element based Multiplier or we consider that Seven Flames scales with Sting

Edit: I think it's better to consider SF and not the Multiplier. So we won't have problems with that later, but I want to hear from you about it
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
Multipliers are only allowed if they are shown to be consistent in the verse. It's case by case.
Click to expand...
I feel like this has been completely ignored by multiple verses in favor of seeing a multiplier and immediately applying it
 
@Peter1129

Red Lightning Dragon Mode was never confirmed to be a similar amp in power to Dragon Force, so we cannot say for sure that said amp is a 2x increase

@ShadowGun

I'm not down with just handing out speculative Multipliers to characters, yes, Maybe Seven Flames Dragon Mode is far faster and greater in speed than Sting, however It's just headcanon at this moment, so I can't support it, in general I feel only things that are confirmed in the manga get a multiplier

@Schnee One and Calaca

Do you accept these changes and the multiplier, or is there an issue with it
 
Natsu vs Zero where originally Natsu gets all of his attacks dodged or tanked with no damage by Zero and then getting smashed with every one of Zero's attacks heavily damaging Natsu. After going into Dragon Force, Natsu was able to almost blitz Zero and then preceded to react to and knock away one of Zero's attacks and basically was able to fight on par with him before winning. Gajeel was getting stomped by Possessed Rogue before entering Iron Shadow Dragon Mode and then stomping him back. Wendy's enhanced attacks did absolutely no damage to Ezel and he basically takes her out in oneattack before she goes into Dragon Force and then becomes much faster to blitz levels but also oneshots Ezel in his enhanced mode.

So yes, The dual element modes and Dragon Force being that strong is consistent.
 
What Dragonmaster said concerns me. I feel the only basis for this CRT is Wendy's Enchant Magic and a statement made by Zero when the rest of the showings greatly differs.
 
I mean, it's not inconsistent, characters who use Dragon Force always are shown to have gotten a great increase in Speed, Power, and Defense, that it consistent, there was never a time when Dragon Force didn't massively increase a persons stats, plus there's 2 multiplier confirmations now that said increase is at least 2x, I understand the skepticism, it's a universal multiplier, however said increase is consistent and there doesn't seem to be any anti-evidence

So I don't think we should just drop this because of skepticism, it's seems like jank, but it's consistent and has no anti-feats
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
@Peter1129

Red Lightning Dragon Mode was never confirmed to be a similar amp in power to Dragon Force, so we cannot say for sure that said amp is a 2x increase

@ShadowGun

I'm not down with just handing out speculative Multipliers to characters, yes, Maybe Seven Flames Dragon Mode is far faster and greater in speed than Sting, however It's just headcanon at this moment, so I can't support it, in general I feel only things that are confirmed in the manga get a multiplier

@Schnee One and Calaca

Do you accept these changes and the multiplier, or is there an issue with it
Click to expand...
Well, I've introduced an Element-based Multiplier, but if they don't agree with that, then that's fine.

Natsu 100YQ FDKM = 6.4% SoL? when fighting Iginia its speed should at least double then
 
Those cases are the same thing that happened with Gohan getting trashed and proceeding to stomp with a 2x multiplier.

And we don't accept such multiplier for SSJ2.

I see no difference even if you argue a 3x multiplier.
 
Everything is a case by case, so I can't speak on why SSJ2 isn't a 2x multiplier, is there a legitimate multiplier statement, doesn't he scale far above 2x anyways, plus Dragon Ball transformations have always been kinda whack

I mean, there's no anti-evidence and at least 2 multiplier statements, so I don't see why this couldn't be accepted
 
The Calaca said:
Those cases are the same thing that happened with Gohan getting trashed and proceeding to stomp with a 2x multiplier.

And we don't accept such multiplier for SSJ2.

I see no difference even if you argue a 3x multiplier.
Click to expand...
But the difference is that SSJ2 doesn't have a multiplier.

Gohan's case is "He beat up this person that stomped him before". Let's randomly give him a 2X multiplier.


FT's case is "They grow strong enough to stomp people that could stomp them before and have 2 statements/feats of it being a 2X multiplier." Let's say the multiplier makes sense.
 
@Calaca

Something being the case in a one situation does not make it wrong here. This is also an "at least" for all these figures as x2 is the minimum. The multiplier page even notes that so long as it's not inconsistent, then applying a multiplier is fine. It's not like this is a x100 that has nothing to back it. It's a x2 that has half a dozen fights with translations and statements backing it up.
 
@Dragon SSJ2 multiplier was stated in a databook.

You'll need a lot of staff input for this. I see no differences in these cases so I can't agree with it.
 
I don't get the point you're trying to make here. If you are saying the reason you disagree here is because SSJ2's multiplier wasn't allowed to be used despite having a statement and showings that supported the multiplier, then you could literally take that logic to any multiplier CRT that pops up. Hell, you could even use that argument on the stuff that's used as examples for multipliers that are actually on the multipliers page itself.
 
@Calaca

That isn't a valid argument against this multiplier though

For one, Dragon Ball databooks are all over the place from what I here and there's a lot of debate on which ones are valid, second of all, Fairy Tail now has 2 statements within the actual story, not a databook, of said form being at least a 2x increase, whereas Dragon Ball has no inverse statements like that, you're using another verses situation, which is actually a different scenario to argue against Fairy Tail, I could use the same argument by saying other verses like Seven Deadly Sins or God of Highschool have a similar situation, therefore this multiplier is accepted, that doesn't work

I thought it was supposed to be case by case, therefore Fairy Tail's case is different than Dragon Ball's
 
To do the reverse of what Calaca's saying, Hitman Reborn's multipliers have been accepted with this reasoning.

"Katekyo Hitman Reborn Dying Will Flame Multipliers: Accepted due to being consistently portrayed and stated by reliable sources. It is clear what is being multiplied, as Dying Will Flames increase physical statistics (speed and power), and are also small but reasonable. Stated multipliers are also shown by consistent showings."

Small multipliers that have consistent showings and multiple statements. Literally the same situation as Fairy Tail here.
 
The only difference is that the multiplier is above 2x and somehow able to turn a stomp the other way around. The same case with Gohan getting stomped to stomp Cell.
 
Can you please give a Fairy Tail only Anti-Feat as to why this isn't consistent, otherwise I can't agree that another verses scenario applies to this at all

Seven Deadly Sins, God of Highschool, Hitman Reborn, and even Luffy's Gear 4 all had similar multiplier statemenst as well and were all accepted, in fact, Kaio Ken in Dragon Ball is accepted as well

If you're point is that one other verse didn't accept it, well there's a bunch of other verses that accept such multipliers as well
 
The differnece between the SSJ2 situation and fairy tail's is that we in universe statements about a 2x increase and feats that prove DF and Initial Dual Element forms being superior to said 2x increase, while dragon ball only has a guide book statement.
 
Like I said, bring more staff members. I'm not going to waste my time researching over this because I have better things to do.

DB had to went through hell with several revisions to accept multipliers. I bet the rest of the verses did as well, and Gear 4th's case has only been used for a single scaling chain, without going further into it.
 
I feel like this has been completely ignored by multiple verses in favor of seeing a multiplier and immediately applying it

Thoughts?
 
I've contacted some more staff members, let's wait and see if they respond
 
I'm neutral on this. Multipliers is a weird thing to deal with in general since it can vary in consistency on the drop of a dime.
 
Why is it neutral, there are no inconsistencies, there are 2 statements of the multiplier and it's backed by evidence

Why is everyone saying it's weird with multipliers without giving an actual piece of evidence against
 
Because multipliers aren't always consistent with series. Case in point, the Super saiyan 2 and 3 multipliers in the Daizenshuu raising a lot of questions/plot holes if we were to take them as legit. Not to mention certain forms if we are to take as actual multipliers can fluctuate greatly from power to power, not exactly lining up with how strong they're supposed to be previously.
 
The thing is that using a multiplier so low as these one to justify power-ups that go from getting stomped to stomp presents a serious problem, and that's why I'd pick unquantifiable scaling chain over multipliers. Otherwise, I can see people using these grounds to suggest that always that a character stomps someone is at least 2x the enemy and use that to inflate the scaling.

No need to mention that such jump is absurdly huge to be compared with a 2-3x multiplier.
 
It's not the same though, the only argument against so far is that Dragon Ball didn't accept 2x, how is that a point against Fairy Tail, I thought this was supposed to be handled on a case by case basis, Seven Deadly Sins and Hitman Reborn has similar cases of multipliers getting accepted, so should that add more validity to Fairy Tail, on it's own, does Fairy Tail's Multiplier work, yes, the amps have always been consistent, Dragon Force has always been seen as a huge amp to a characters power, also both multiplier statements happened within the story, not a databook, that makes it more reliable

I'm not saying multipliers can't be inconsistent or don't work, but this is not one of those cases, if someone brings up a piece of anti-evidence from the actual series, then that's valid and is up for debate, but all you guys are saying is that Multipliers are weird and weren't accepted for such and such series, that seems unfair to Fairy Tail or any other verse that has multipliers, I get that multipliers are a touchy subject, but that doesn't mean we should discount them

Point is, we have 2 direct statements and pieces of evidence that support Dragon Force being at the very least a 2x Amp, it's not based on speculation or A Character stomping B Character, it's based on legit in-story statements, this is supported by the fact that whenever someone uses Dragon Force, all there stats increase by a large margin, if there is any in-verse anti evidence, that's fine and a legit argument against the multipliers, and at that point a discussion can begin

But I don't like the idea of just shooting this down because of other verses scenario's, this multiplier should be examined and dealt with on it's own merit, plus a in-story multiplier in my opinion is better than an unquantifiable increase in power
 
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