Welcome to Pagemageddon! Bill Cipher Rework.

[Phoenks]

You keep yelling it doesn't, but can you prove the negative when literally everything else says it? You're straight up ignoring anything and nitpicking every scan, which is something that I heavily dislike and I'll ask you to stop.

You're asking me to stop arguing against you? What? Lol. If you can't debate your side, why should anyone believe you?

Ignoring what? Your entire argument is relying on "5th dimensional calculus" being enough to support a possibly Low 1-C rating. I'm telling you it isn't because it doesn't prove any infinitely superior dimensionality. Even verses that have blatant dimensional statements like No Game No Life are rejected from reaching those ratings unless there's additional evidence.


You're free to concede from the argument, but I'm not going to stop debating my side.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ignoring what? Your entire argument is relying on "5th dimensional calculus" being enough to support a possibly Low 1-C rating. I'm telling you it isn't because it doesn't prove any infinitely superior dimensionality. Even verses that have blatant dimensional statements like No Game No Life are rejected from reaching those ratings unless there's additional evidence.

That + The Higher Plane + The fact it is completely outside the multiverse to the point it's completely lawless + it containing 4D things.

Considering that Archie Sonic got Low 1-C based off similar evidence, I can say that you are the one who has a problem, not me.

 

[Phoenks]

That + The Higher Plane + The fact it is completely outside the multiverse to the point it's completely lawless + it containing 4D things.

Already went through all of this above.

5th dimensional calculus is in your own words not enough on its own. And with everything else here being easily disproven, it is standing by itself.

"Higher plane" relative to 2-D/3-Dness. That isn't support for anything 5-Dimensional.

"Outside the multiverse" doesn't mean anything at all for something's dimensionality. Neither does being lawless. What is the argument there?

Containing 4-D things is also 4-D. A multiverse isn't 5-D for containing 4-D space-times.

 

[Deidalius]

Why do people try to buff character profiles to the levels of Death Battle each time they make an episode on them? Is Death Battle really that influential?

 

[StrymULTRA]

5th dimensional calculus is in your own words not enough on its own.

On its own, yes. Funny how you ignore that the other evidence is enough.

"Higher plane" relative to 2-D/3-Dness. That isn't support for anything 5-Dimensional.

Archie Sonic and Arceus.

"Outside the multiverse" doesn't mean anything at all for something's dimensionality. Neither does being lawless. What is the argument there?

Archie Sonic and Arceus (2).

 

[StrymULTRA]

Why do people try to buff character profiles to the levels of Death Battle each time they make an episode on them? Is Death Battle really that influential?

Nah. You didn't see people buffing Dio to ******* Tier 7 and MFTL+ lmao.

 

[Deidalius]

Nah. You didn't see people buffing Dio to ***** Tier 7 and MFTL+ lmao.

Because it was ******* stupid, and no one agreed with Swan's Swank.

At least this is more agreeable.

 

[Phoenks]

Considering that Archie Sonic got Low 1-C based off similar evidence, I can say that you are the one who has a problem, not me.

Comparing the evidence you said for this is super dishonest, holy shit.

That thread gives evidence for higher realms relative to space-time (4-D). The evidence you give says its a higher plane compared to either the 2nd or 3rd dimension, lol.

On its own, yes. Funny how you ignore that the other evidence is enough.

Archie Sonic and Arceus.

Archie Sonic and Arceus (2).

I literally addressed your arguments and you refer to an entirely separate thread that brings up more evidence for Low 1-C in 3 images than you have in this entire thread.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Why do people try to buff character profiles to the levels of Death Battle each time they make an episode on them? Is Death Battle really that influential?

Iron Fist had the opposite thing

 

[StrymULTRA]

Comparing the evidence you said for this is super dishonest, holy shit.

Cope.

This thread gives evidence for higher realms relative to space-time (4-D). The evidence you give says its a higher plane compared to either the 2nd or 3rd dimension, lol.

It's a higher realm compared to 4D given that the NR contains the 2-A multiverse... Man I can't.

I literally addressed your arguments and you refer to an entirely separate thread that brings up more evidence for Low 1-C in 3 images than you have in this entire thread.

You keeping to say "no it's not because is not" is not how we debate, you know.

 

[ShionAH]

Comparing the evidence you said for this is super dishonest, holy shit.

That thread gives evidence for higher realms relative to space-time (4-D). The evidence you give says its a higher plane compared to either the 2nd or 3rd dimension, lol.


I literally addressed your arguments and you refer to an entirely separate thread that brings up more evidence for Low 1-C in 3 images than you have in this entire thread.

Can a 4D universe contain 4D objects inside?

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Can a 4D universe contain 4D objects inside?

yes..... assuming you mean 4 dimensions of space

 

[Phoenks]

It's a higher realm compared to 4D given that the NR contains the 2-A multiverse... Man I can't.

You're putting it backwards.

The NR is a higher realm compared to 2-D/3-D because it is between everything in a 2-A multiverse. This supports it being a 4-D plane. Not a 5-D one.

There's nothing that says it's a higher realm compared to space-time or the 4th dimension.

At this point, you're just being dishonest.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Why do people try to buff character profiles to the levels of Death Battle each time they make an episode on them? Is Death Battle really that influential?

Not really, but even then whats exactly the problem with that?

 

[Phoenks]

Can a 4D universe contain 4D objects inside?

Yes. Also, the NR isn't a universe. It's world between every dimension/universe.

That's 4-D. And it can contain 4-D things just like any multiversal structure.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Can a 4D universe contain 4D objects inside?

Technically yes, like a 3D universe contains 3D things.

The NR is a higher realm compared to 2-D/3-D because it is between everything in a 2-A multiverse. This supports it being a 4-D plane. Not a 5-D one.

Repeating what you said does not make your argument stronger.

There's nothing that says it's a higher realm compared to space-time or the 4th dimension.

This is literally from where the possibly steams from. Given that Ford never called the 4th dimension as a higher plane, but the NR which holds both 3D and 4D yes, then an argument can indeed be made,

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Yeah, I aree with pheonks, 4D is more concrete than 5D, if more evidence down the line comes then we can make another crt

 

[ShionAH]

It's world between every dimension/universe.

Bill calls it "dimension" and compares it to a universe

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

its a dimension between dimensions as in a type of realm between realms similar to the neutral space in DBS

 

[Deidalius]

Not really, but even then whats exactly the problem with that?

It makes me wonder why y'all use that timing.

 

[Phoenks]

Bill calls it "dimension" and compares it to a universe

Yeah I know. It's a space/dimension/universe whatever you call it that exist between every dimension/universe/space whatever you wanna call them, in the multiverse.

It's a 2-A-sized realm that exists between every universe in a 2-A multiverse.

It's completely possible for the "higher realm" statement to work with the NR being 2-A and there's a lot less to be argued there. I don't see the support for 5-D.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, I aree with pheonks, 4D is more concrete than 5D, if more evidence down the line comes then we can make another crt

In Gravity Falls there's also a realm that's between Time and Space where the Axatotl lives where is possible to see the 4th dimension, allowing to see all the infinite timelines and various events as if they're strips from movies.

I think this can change your mind, I hope.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

2-A is fine if it doesn't scale to physicals. I disagree with low 1-C. Infinite perception speed is iffy because we don't give infinite perception speed to characters who can lets say see an infinite amount of futures or timelines with precog so I disagree with that.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

It makes me wonder why y'all use that timing.

controversy and relevance

 

[StrymULTRA]

2-A is fine if it doesn't scale to physicals.

Why wouldn't it? I made a big big explanation on why.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

2-A is fine if it doesn't scale to physicals. I disagree with low 1-C. Infinite perception speed is iffy because we don't give infinite perception speed to characters who can lets say see an infinite amount of futures or timelines with precog so I disagree with that.

its more so he views himself in infinite timelines all at once answering a question and I don't recall another character on the wiki that has that, I think possibly or likely should be fine for that speed tho

 

[Phoenks]

In Gravity Falls there's also a realm that's between Time and Space where the Axatotl lives

This realm is still 4-D. "Time and space between time and space."

Also, we can see from the image that the Axatotl is a 3-D being next to Dipper and Mabel.

Being between or outside of space and time is not 5-D.

allowing to see all the infinite timelines and various events as if they're strips from movies.

Being able to see the "4th dimension"/time is not proof of quantitive superiority over the fourth dimension. This was via the power of the Time Key as well, not because of some inherent superiority over the 4th dimension.

It even says this referencing how it would be if you could just "see" the fourth dimension. This is the equivalent of arguing that every character who can see through time is 5-D.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I feel like we need more staff members for this thread

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also, we can see from the image that the Axatotl is a 3-D being next to Dipper and Mabel

Literally so? We see HDE beings being potrayed as 3D all the time.

Being between or outside of space and time is not 5-D.

Mfw Archie Sonic got 5D because of mainly Higher Plane + Outside space-time stuff.

Being able to see the "4th dimension"/time is not proof of quantitive superiority over the fourth dimension. This was via the power of the Time Key as well, not because of some inherent superiority over the 4th dimension.

It still means that stuff outside 4D does still exist.

I feel like we need more staff members for this thread

I agree, I am getting a headache from arguing from him.

 

[y3p_owo]

ig I'm fine with Multi+ Bill. Put me in neutral on everything else.

 

[Phoenks]

Literally so? We see HDE beings being potrayed as 3D all the time.

This is one of the only images we get of the thing and its alongside statements that prove the realm he's in isn't 5-D. So it's definitely not supporting your claims.

Mfw Archie Sonic got 5D because of mainly Higher Plane + Outside space-time stuff.

This is not true.

Arche Sonic had statements of higher planes beyond space and time

On this wiki, that is a very huge difference from "time and space between time and space" and "outside of time and space" especially when the visuals align with this not being some 5-D plane at all.

It still means that stuff outside 4D does still exist.

Just being outside of time isn't 5-D on the wiki.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Yeah, ad nauseaum again, not dealing with this given I already did refute these arguments. Moving on calcing Ford's stuff.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

@StrymULTRA chill, you've recently came back from a ban. Tone it down.

-

I find myself agreeing with Phoenks regarding Low 1-C currently.

 

[StrymULTRA]

@StrymULTRA chill, you've recently came back from a ban. Tone it down.

-

I find myself agreeing with Phoenks regarding Low 1-C currently.

What about the whole post I made about the 3-C though? I think is pretty important regardless, given the physical stats are still a debate.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I think we should leave the Tier 1 stuff until someone like qawsedf arrives, for now lets focus on the other stuff of the profile

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

What about the whole post I made about the 3-C though? I think is pretty important regardless, given the physical stats are still a debate.

I mean, it seems to me Bill just has variable physical stats. But that part I can't debate, as I still haven't finished the show proper.

For now, I wouldn't be opposed for him to just scale to the 3-C

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean, it seems to me Bill just has variable physical stats. But that part I can't debate, as I still haven't finished the show proper.

For now, I wouldn't be opposed for him to just scale to the 3-C

I myself am proposing a likely for 2-A/Low 1-C, given that it is a weird sustenance feat at the end to be fair.

 

[TheShape03]

I agree, let's forget about the Tier 1 stuff for now. As for whether or not Level 2-A should scale to Bill's durability, well, Bill didn't seem really concerned with the destruction of existence, and probably meets the requirements of Stabilization Feats. So Bill should probably be "Varies. 6-B to 3-C, up to 2-A" in AP and Durability.

Edit: Or "3-C to 2-A".

 

[Phoenks]

I'll move on too, then.

NEXT!

Striking strength and durability scaling. I disagree with 2-A scaling to those.

Just, no. Bill never demonstrates striking strength comparable to the scope of his weirdness powers. And it would make all of his lower showings very strange because that level of SS would mean his durability would scale too.

His durability has so many anti-feats that it's impossible to give him that. Shack took out his eye and floored him. Mabel damaged his eye by just spraying pepper spray. He felt the need to create a forcefield to prevent Dipper from hitting his eye. Etc, the list goes on.

2-A AP is fine though, at his peak.

----

Completely uncertain about his base striking strength and durability. It for sure ranges up to 3-C though if he could become the size of a galaxy (The Stan image is definitely above 4-A. Humans are way more dense than galaxies).

 

[StrymULTRA]

His durability has so many anti-feats that it's impossible to give him that. Shack took out his eye and floored him. Mabel damaged his eye by just spraying pepper spray. He felt the need to create a forcefield to prevent Dipper from hitting his eye. Etc, the list goes on.

I don't see how his durability shouldn't scale to his AP, as is basically an Arceus thing here, where he has some inconsistencies which can be explained from just him playing with his food too much (given that he only was serious against the TB, but he ***** around all the time with the Pines), both Ford and himself essentially imply that the destruction of existence wouldn't affect him much. Bill also described as having infinite power, so I don't see why would he downplay himself from saying his durability is infinities below his AP.
I dunno man, the same Shaktron needed max power output to overpower all the Hencemaniacs at once, and they're afraid of a serious Bill. So saying that Bill is on the same tier as his minions who are all scared of him to the point of not daring to question him or running away the second he gets mad is just... dishonest.

Already countered here.