Bill Cipher Rework: Part 2 (Abilities + stuff)

[ShionAH]

Wtf? I agreed with you-???

 

[StrymULTRA]

What I explained is simply that I specify in the Physical Body tab that his NEP applies only on those, and nothing more.

I don't see the problem.

 

[ShionAH]

I don't see the problem.

Yes. Which is why I agree with you.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

I'd do it anyway just to make sure, you never know on the internet.

Yeah it should still be noted anyway. We’ve already had one guy who tried to use his NEP in a match with his physical key because it wasn’t previously said to not be in that key. Some people just lack common sense lol

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bump?

 

[ShionAH]

Bump?

dont you have enough agreements?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well, yeah ig.

Someone should open the profile then.

 

[Ayewale]

Say, this looks very good. As for the tiering god I hate his 2-A rating, I dunno about him having 'at least' since his ratings are overtime as is. 2-A should also have a Possibly rating if it doesn't already.

I feel like his Extraordinary Genius should apply only to his scientific skills, although I don't think the wiki specifies on this types of things so you can ignore that part.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I dunno about him having 'at least' since his ratings are overtime as is.

Is both that due to him getting stronger by the minute and everything being casual to him.

2-A should also have a Possibly rating if it doesn't already.

It does tho???

 

[StrymULTRA]

Just to make sure before unlocking...

It was agreed in the previous thread that this shouldn't be a thing.

Social Influencing looks good, but Power Null does look iffy.

Everything in the OP seems fine at a glance. Disagree with Resistance to Power Null though.

I'm fine w/ the OP and the social influencing

Just to make sure...

Can these be added too, other than Social Influencing which was already accepted:

• It is revealed in the Gravity Falls complete series DVD set that, after the events of the show, Bill Cipher was put into a cosmic punishment, where he is forced to relive the events of the show forever, over and over again (Type 1 Acausality and Type 4 + 8 Immortality, given it seems indeed related to the Axatotl thing mentioned in OP)
• Dimensional Storage and Spatial Manipulation, Light Manipulation, Non-Physical Interaction and Surface Scaling (scans are are linked there)
• Sleep Manipulation being moved to the Mindscape key given he did it before forming the physical form.

Edit: I think that the Precognition should also be combat applicable now, as Bill does indeed show immediate stuff happening such as with how Dipper will act in the next seconds or able to see all of his infinite alternate futures and even commenting on them in real time, he just does not lead with it in character as he never felt doing so, as he always underestimated humans and in particular he got outsmarted from Ford in not doing it, and with Time Baby he simply didn't need it (given that Bill didn't need him and went instantly for the kill against him). Aka is more just something of a character having indeed a hax which has combat applications, just that he does not lead with it, similar to how Goku does not use Hakai by the get go in the manga, if you get my comparison.

 

[TheShape03]

Resistance to pain manipulation must also be eliminated.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Resistance to pain manipulation must also be eliminated.

Forgot lol.

 

[Gewsbumpz_dude]

Bit of a nitpick, but;

Age: At least 1 trillion years old (He has been trapped in the Dreamscape for this long[2])

Bill wasn't trapped in the "Dreamscape", it was the Nightmare Realm. I think this line was made before the Nightmare Realm was explained in Journal 3, and needs to be updated.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Bit of a nitpick, but;



Bill wasn't trapped in the "Dreamscape", it was the Nightmare Realm. I think this line was made before the Nightmare Realm was explained in Journal 3, and needs to be updated.

Yeah, you're right.

 

[Tots_Real]

• It is revealed in the Gravity Falls complete series DVD set that, after the events of the show, Bill Cipher was put into a cosmic punishment, where he is forced to relive the events of the show forever, over and over again (Type 1 Acausality and Type 4 + 8 Immortality, given it seems indeed related to the Axatotl thing mentioned in OP)

Is there any definitive proof that this in fact canon because this sounds just like a non canon easter egg.

Edit: I think that the Precognition should also be combat applicable now, as Bill does indeed show immediate stuff happening such as with how Dipper will act in the next seconds or able to see all of his infinite alternate futures and even commenting on them in real time, he just does not lead with it in character as he never felt doing so, as he always underestimated humans and in particular he got outsmarted from Ford in not doing it, and with Time Baby he simply didn't need it (given that Bill didn't need him and went instantly for the kill against him). Aka is more just something of a character having indeed a hax which has combat applications, just that he does not lead with it, similar to how Goku does not use Hakai by the get go in the manga, if you get my comparison.

The first example could just be Bill being exceedingly knowledgeable about Dipper as a person and knowing how he would react rather than actual precognition. Second one doesn't really seem combat applicable.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Say, this looks very good. As for the tiering god I hate his 2-A rating, I dunno about him having 'at least' since his ratings are overtime as is. 2-A should also have a Possibly rating if it doesn't already.

I feel like his Extraordinary Genius should apply only to his scientific skills, although I don't think the wiki specifies on this types of things so you can ignore that part.

I'm not sure why the At Least is being brought up again, the exact same arguments were all made in the last thread and almost no one was on board with it.

 

[ShionAH]

I'm not sure why the At Least is being brought up again, the exact same arguments were all made in the last thread and almost no one was on board with it.

I dont think anyone even thought about it on the CRT

 

[Magicomethkuon]

I dont think anyone even thought about it on the CRT

It was brought up multiple times over, even at the very end of it I drew attention to this At least. And I'd know because before I went and mentioned Low 2-C, a lot of people were arguing for a base tier of High 3-A (which, no, I never thought was the case either).

 

[Phoenks]

Both keys: Regeneration (Low-Godly is correct, but it's for the body, as the "soul" is still his Mindscape state, which has still on its own regen, aka High-Mid. Ergo his Mindscape form should simply have High Mid, while the Physical Form instead has "Low-Godly for the Physical Form, High-Mid for the Mindscape Form. Also remove the "Even when Ford used the weapon that was meant to permanently kill Bill he still regenerates the damage[2] though it is likely he was only able to survive it since Ford missed the large part of his body" thing, as it's clear that Bill would have just died from it)

No, Low-Godly is fine for his mindscape form because he doesn't possess or need a body in that key. Regeneration from a metaphysical energy/soul is low-godly. (VSBW doesn't really account for purely spiritual regen, so that happens).

I think there should be a weaknesss on the page that his Eye is especially sensitive and takes a bit to regenerate.

Looks good, but what about concept manipulation?

1. (Bill took a bite out of and has tasted the concept of life which he adds that it tastes like "Uracil Cytocine and Thymine")

2. The whole "Time is dead and Meaning has no Meaning" line.

No. "Tasting life" is unquantifiable and super vague. At best it would just be some weird NPI.


"Time is dead" because he stopped it.

"Meaning has no meaning" because Weirdmaggedon is random and chaotic and nothing functions the same anymore.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Concept NPI is technically the best possible version of NPI

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I feel like his Extraordinary Genius should apply only to his scientific skills, although I don't think the wiki specifies on this types of things so you can ignore that part.

A character may have more than one intelligence rank if the statistic varies depending on the area. This means that they can reach exceptional levels in some respects, but be unimpressive in others.

As mentioned above, it is a good idea to list feats and/or other explanations for their respective rankings.

– Here

 

[StrymULTRA]

– Here

The problem is that Bill isn't like Goku who's a moron in anything but fighting.

I think just general EG like Sans is fine.

Is there any definitive proof that this in fact canon because this sounds just like a non canon easter egg.

It's from the DVD box set. Plus it doesn't contradict anything.

The first example could just be Bill being exceedingly knowledgeable about Dipper as a person. Second one doesn't really seem combat applicable.

1st is complete headcanon, as it being precognition feats with the other feats. Second is just him seeing infinite futures at once and processing those lmao.

Both of your conclusions are kinda a reach.

I'm not sure why the At Least is being brought up again, the exact same arguments were all made in the last thread and almost no one was on board with it.

People here agree with it given it's mentioned in OP lmao.

 

[ZeedKZ]

Btw, Bill living in the Nightmare Realm should also include resistance to causality and law manipulation, as it is a lawless realm with no consistent rules.

Edit: Just noticed this is in type 4 acausality, nvm.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Btw, Bill living in the Nightmare Realm should also include resistance to causality and law manipulation, as it is a lawless realm with no consistent rules.

Edit: Just noticed this is in type 4 acausality, nvm.

To be fair there's also the fact that he finds the causality of the human world gross (like him being mad at the fact the effect is always after the cause).

 

[Magicomethkuon]

People here agree with it given it's mentioned in OP lmao.

There was no staff agreement to redress the balance in that. There was also one staff input saying to not try and get points rejected in the last one to be added immediately afterwards. At Least before Low 2-C is one of them. And it was brought up last time when deciding on Bill's tier, to the last post. Like at the very end when I said it wasn't agreed upon and none of the other voters said otherwise.

 

[StrymULTRA]

You're sounding so desperate rn.

@Maverick_Zero_X and @KingTempest agreed with everything in OP, thus including also the "at least" argument I made there.

So don't play like this.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

You're sounding so desperate rn.

@Maverick_Zero_X and @KingTempest agreed with everything in OP, thus including also the "at least" argument I made there.

So don't play like this.

I am very desperate. Lots of work to do so I use the website as a way to relax between a task or two, lest I go crazy. Bill's tier? No, he doesn't pay my bills so I don't need to be desperate even if I disagree with what ends up written there. Be a good sport and stop with the assumptions on my person, comments of this vein never helped any thread.

Anyways thanks for notifying them again because Maverick Zero personally removed the At Least in the last thread when there was no agreement. Saying that he agrees without seeing his full input and opinion is rushed. This is a point that was denied a few days ago in the very thread before this one, if I were staff I wouldn't expect to see it in the OP again immediately.

KingTempest, fair I don't remember if he was there in the last thread. Still there were several votes that disregarded the At Least in the last thread so revisiting the point on this one at a zero count as if they never existed is what looks wrong from my point of view.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Tiering

Simply put, he should have an "At least" before the Low 2-C/2-A. Everything he does is very damn casual and gets empowered by the minute from the rift, and when he killed Time Baby 3 days have passed, and the Weirdmageddon kept going for three days before Bill killed Time Baby, and it kept going for over 4 days in total, other than the effects of the Weirdmageddon being just a game for him.

About the Mindscale, it should be Unknown, but also because of the 2nd dimension not being infinitely inferior to the 3D world, as Ford wasn't viewed as a god from the 2D lifeforms, and he was about to get killed from them as well, so this scan should be added.

Everything in the OP seems fine at a glance.

I'm fine w/ the OP and the social influencing

People can change their minds, as you can see.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

People can change their minds, as you can see.

My reply before this one covers why this needs to be addressed well enough. You'd also have to list everyone who voted Low 2-C, possibly 2-A in the last one. Otherwise the result is a reset of the vote count with only the people in this thread.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I don't follow what you're saying nor I care enough to even entertain this mess of a coping you're leashing rn.

I listed the arguments in OP, staff agree with it, and so I'll apply it. Easy as that.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

I don't follow what you're saying nor I care enough to even entertain this mess of a coping you're leashing rn.

I listed the arguments in OP, staff agree with it, and so I'll apply it. Easy as that.

No, Strym, try as you might I am not joining a session of being toxic to each other. I already said it never helped any thread. If you are so sure that staff agrees with you, there should be no problem in counting the votes from the past thread and letting the two who briefly visited this one confirm their input, no? I can't stop you from assuming whatever you want about me at this point, but a reset ignoring all the conversation on this topic that was had in the last CRT, even after another staff came here and advised not to revisit already rejected points immediately afterwards would be dishonest.

You want this to be addressed again, count everything that was said on the topic. Not just the part that benefits your proposal.

 

[StrymULTRA]

No staff disagreed with the "at least" in the previous CRT, it just got removed due to it being introduced later and never being agreed, no staff explicitly said "no at least can't be added".

Besides the purpose of the CRT is to add stuff which was rushed there to give an actual admin approval.

Now I am stopping this convo and waiting for more staff input, thanks.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

No staff disagreed with the "at least" in the previous CRT, it just got removed due to it being introduced later and never being agreed, no staff explicitly said "no at least can't be added".

Besides the purpose of the CRT is to add stuff which was rushed there to give an actual admin approval.

Now I am stopping this convo and waiting for more staff input, thanks.

Once more, the at least point was brought up multiple times. Staff visited, voted, and the votes were not with it. There's really no reason why, if they wanted or agreed with an At Least, they would not include it under these circumstances. Either they are notified of this same as for KingTempest and MaverickZero, or their votes are counted as they were. Tiering was the point of the last thread, and it was extensively discussed. The rushed part was hax.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Show me a staff saying they are not ok with "at least" in a very explicit way.

Otherwise this convo is a waste of time, especially when staff agreed with it here.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Show me a staff saying they are not ok with "at least" in a very explicit way.

Otherwise this convo is a waste of time, especially when staff agreed with it here.

Strym, there is a transparent double standard being applied in your line of reasoning with this. You are saying that:
in the past thread, any reply that isn't very specifically mentioning a verbatim disagreement with at least, even with the subject being brought up, and their votes not including an at least in it doesn't count. Even if they are staff.
Meanwhile, here you are saying:
The two staff votes that briefly visited this thread and said they agree on their point (point being the OP, not specifically At Least) without a full input, one of which is the very same staff that removed the at least, those do count and are ground for you to apply the changes, ignoring all the votes before. We don't need to listen to them or those before to confirm it.
This is very partial to the extent of this discussion as a whole.

 

[StrymULTRA]

in the past thread, any reply that isn't very specifically mentioning a disagreement with at least, even with the subject being brought up, and their votes not including an at least in it doesn't count. Even if they are staff.

Alright, so you just said that now staff votes don't count because you say so? Yeah no buddy.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Alright, so you just said that now staff votes don't count because you say so? Yeah no buddy.

No Strym. What I just said is that you are currently refusing to count any staff votes from the prior thread, just because said votes weren't verbatim what you wanted them to word said votes like. You deliberately are resetting the count and applying a double standard to only count two votes without confirmation. Even when said votes in the past thread were very clear. This was probably the most far-off strawman I have seen in my whole life.

 

[StrymULTRA]

This thread in fact is to propose it again in order to make it accepted properly, and I am not invalidating it now because of your nitpicks.

Now enough of this, is clear that you're stubborn so I won't waste any time further.

 

[ShionAH]

Why would anyone count the votes that happened in a completely different CRT with 8 pages?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Least desperate Bill Cipher opponent.