Was Kep's 6-B Kenpachi calc accepted?

[KuuIchigo]

Zangetsu, Uryu, Jugram, Royd Lloyd, Loyd Lloyd, Mimihagi, and Yamamoto.

 

[Dat_Dot]

Question, do we still use Gremmy's multiplier thing?

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

What Multiplier? the imagination x2 and x6?

 

[Dat_Dot]

What Multiplier? the imagination x2 and x6?

Something like that, it was discussed here.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

If it was agreed upon then I don't see why not.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Idk...I'm not particularly fine with scaling characters that have no "Direct proof" or "Some semblance of proof" they should scale.

• Gremmy x2 = High 6-A (Via Meteor)

• Shikai Kenpachi = High 6-A (For Busting Gremmy Meteor)

• Miracle Gerard = High 6-A (For stomping Shikai Kenny who was unable to cut the huffnung)

• Adult Toshiro = High 6-A (Stomped Miracle Gerard and easily cut the huffnung)

• Bankai Byakuya (Shattered Gerard's head after Toshiro Froze him)

• SK Yhwach Scales by virtue of being the strongest character.

• Merged Hollow/Bankai Ichigo scales from harming Yhwach and statements.

_____________________________

The issue is some characters don't have direct scaling, they are arbitrarily being upgraded.

For staters, I don't agree with Dangai and Aizen scaling above Shikai Kenpachi.

Reasoning: True Shikai Ichigo using just his shinigami power is stated to be equal to Dangai, and he's not "Transcended" in TYBW which itself kills the Notion of Aizen being "Transcended" above Shinigami which should certainly casts doubt about him scaling.on top of this, as I posted above, Kenpachi has the same "Transcended scthick" going for him with lower level beings not being able to sense his reiatsu, which has only ever been a thing with Dangai and Aizen.

It's been consistently shown that being transcendant simply means vastly more reiatsu, and even then lower beings have shown to injure Transcendants:

• Isshin Cutting Chrysalis Aizen

• Gin one shotting Mullet Aizen

• Monster Aizen burning Dangai's Arm

On this note, further proof of Transcedance not really putting you above other beings is the fact that FKT Ichigo could still sense Chrysalis Aizen w/o his mask on while being weaker than Isshin, Kisuke and Yoruichi.

Basically, when all things are considered, enough proof exists to say Shikai Kenpachi can be stronger than "Transcended" Aizen and Dangai, or at the very least, Aizen and Dangai scaling should be scrutinized a little more.

I'd just like to see the scaling be legit and leave me without any semblance of doubt.

Edit: Also, If Shikai Kenpachi is stronger than Dangai, than that means:

• True Shikai Ichigo

• Base Yhwach (Almighty doesn't increase his Reiatsu or AP)

• Ichibei

Won't scale to Shikai Kenny. Only Monster Aizen/Dangai.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

IMO, before touching Dangai Ichigo and Hogyoku Aizen, we should first get the Las Noches size revision done. That's gonna probably upgrade them through Ulquiorra.

The revision of Dangai Ichigo and Hogyoku Aizen through Ulquiorra would effect True Shikai Ichigo and Yhwach post activating Almighty the first time.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Question, for what reason is Base Yhwach and Post Almighty Activation Yhwach considered Separate when it comes to AP. They both should scale the same in regards to AP with Almighty Yhwach simply having....well, the Almighty Activated, lol.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Base Yhwach could refer back to the Yhwach that killed Yamamoto. But recall that Yhwach gets more powerful the more people die in the battlefield. So after the first invasion and the second invasion, Yhwach fights Ichibei when he is more powerful than before and has activated the Almighty.

The Quincy Song said that Yhwach's full powers are awakened after the a certain point which was during the fight with Ichibei. So he got some unquantifiable amps.

 

[Peter1129]

So if and when the Lanza desk Relampago calc is finalized. These are the characters that scale and might scale to the calc.

Bleach those that definitely scale to Lanza del Relampago

Base Aizen, Urahara, Isshin, Yoruichi, Yamamoto, White, Full Hollow Ichigo, Fullbringer Bankai Ichigo, Cien Granz, Kenpachi Azashiro, TYBW Pre-Training Base Kenpachi, Unohana, Post-Royal Guard Training Bankai Renji, Post-Royal Guard Training Bankai Rukia, Post-Royal Guard Training Shikai Byakuya, Bazz-B, Royal Guards, Yushiro, Askin, Sasakibe Bankai, Enhanced Nemu, Pernida, Loyd, TYBW Resurreccion Grimmjow, TYBW Resurreccion Nel, Zombie Resurreccion Luppi, and Hikone

Those that might somewhat scale to Lanza del Relampago

Sternritter P Meninas, Sternritter N Robert, Sternritter O Driscoll, Resurreccion Roka Paramia, Ayon Absorbed Voldtanding Quilge, TYBW Base Grimmjow, TYBW Base Nel, Zombie Base Luppi, TYBW Hallibel, Shunsui, Ukitake, Resurreccion Stark, Lille, Gerard, Sternritter S Mask, Post-Royal Guard Training Shikai Renji, and Post-Royal Guard Training Shikai Rukia

I think I'm missing some but these are the ones I know so far

 

[Soldier_Blue]

The following characters should scale to Segunda Etapa Ulquiorra:

Full Hichigo, Base Aizen, Yama-jii, Isshin, Urahara, probably the Division Zero members (other than Ichibei).

Why in the world would Nel, Harribel, Bankai Ginjo and all those others scale? And post Division Zero training Byakuya already scales to adult the High 6-A shit.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

The only thing the other Espada could scale to would be Gran Rey Cero and Cero Oscuras as they all can perform it at Base and Resurreccion, respectively.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Don't even know if Starrk can scale to Lanza. Bazz would scale by virtue of countering Yama-jii's flames.

 

[Peter1129]

Well Shunsui's profile says he fought Yamamoto so if he in some way scales than so would the likes of Resurreccion Stark and some of the other Sternritters.

Post-Training Bankai Byakuya scales to Adult Toshiro. Not sure if Shikai Byakuya should also be in the same tier.

Didn't somebody say Nel was stronger than Grimmjow in the novels?

Hallibel may or may not scale depending on if she got stronger.

Bankai Ginjo did somewhat fight against Fullbring Bankai Ichigo so he might also scale.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Yeah, I don't think the other Espada should scale to Lanza. But they all do scale to Gran Rey Cero and Cero Oscuras as it's something they all can do.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

But Bankai Ginjo got stomped by Bankai Ichigo.

 

[Peter1129]

Really guess I'll remove him from the list. Haven't read and watched the Fullbring Arc in a while. What about the others? Anyone else I need to remove?

 

[Dr.Fix]

I agree with FinalOrder. A lot of names are being throw down for upgrades but no little to no reasoning provided from the manga. there is a scaling thread for bleach for those who may find it helpful when citing sources.

Ultimately the final decision for anything regarding the Bleach section is the staff's which means its up tp whatever Soldier blue decides. Just throwing in my two cents.

P:S Someone should add the bleach tag to this.

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

^I truly don't think that's the case.

 

[AppleLord]

Tsukishima and Ginjo need new keys for the novels as they made Grimmjow bleed and force him into Resurrección. They also fought Candice.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Does someone have the scan of the databook panel of Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras being powerful enough to destroy Las Noches ?

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Does someone have the scan of the databook panel of Ulquiorra's Cero Oscuras being powerful enough to destroy Las Noches ?

Yeah I made a large post about both Gran Rey Cero and Cero Oscuras in the Las Noches thread by Kep, let me find it for you.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Cero Oscuras:


Bleach UNMASKED Databook 3. Pg. 54

Main Kanji:
Þºúµö¥þèµàïÒü½ÒüéÒéïÕìüÕêâÒüîõ¢┐ÒüêÒéï, Ú╗ÆÒüäÞÖÜÚûâÒÇéÚÇÜÕ©©Òü«ÞÖÜÚûâÒü¿µ»öÞ╝âÒüùÒüªÒÇüµíüÚüòÒüäÒü«Õ¿üÕèøÒéƵ£ëÒüÖÒéïµèÇÒÇé

Translation
Usable by the Espada in their released state, Cero Oscuras. In comparison to the regular Cero, it is an ability that is an order of magnitude more powerful.

Sub Text Kanji:
õ©ÇµÆâÒüºõ©ÇÞ¡ÀÒü«õ╗«ÚØóÒéÆÕë▓ÒéïÒüáÒüæÒüºÒü¬ÒüÅÒÇüÞÖÜÕñ£Õ««ÒéÆÒééþá┤ÕúèÒüÖÒéïþ¿ïÒü«Õ╝ÀÕèøÒüòÒÇé

Translation:
In a single blow Ichigo's mask is broken, it also has the power to destroy Las Noches.

Gran Rey Cero and Espada 4 and Up Releases:

Main Kanji on the Right:

Õ«ÖÒéÆÞªåÒüåÒéêÒüåÒü½Þ¿¡ÒüêÒéëÒéîÒüƒÕñ®ÞôïÒÇéþ®║ÒüîµÅÅÒüïÒéîÒüƒÒüØÒü«Õñ®ÞôïÒü«õ©èÒü½Òü»ÒÇüµÅÅÒüïÒéîÒüƒÒéêÒüåÒü¬þ®║ÒéäÚø▓Òü»õ©ÇÕêçÒü¬ÒüŵÜùÒüŵƒôÒéüÒéëÒéîÒüƒþ®║ÚûôÒüîþÂÜÒüÅÒÇéõ©ÇÚâ¿Òü«ÕìüÕêâÒü½Òü»Õñ®ÞôïÒü«õ©èÒüºÒü«Òü┐ÒÇüÒüØÒü«Þºúµö¥ÒéÆÞ¿▒ÒüòÒéîÒüƒµèÇÒüîÒüéÒéïÒÇé

Bleach UNMASKED Databook 3, Pg. 135.

Translation:
A canopy installed to order to cover the air. Above the canopy was a drawn sky of space, a sky drawn with never ending darkness and no sky nor clouds in it's space. Some of the Espada are only allowed to use their releasing ability above the canopy.

Main Kanji on the Left:
Õñ®ÞôïÒü«õ©ïÒüºþªüÒüÿÒéëÒéîÒüªÒüäÒéïÒüôÒü¿Òü»ÒÇüÕ╝ÀÕñºÒü¬ÞÖÜÚûâÒÇîþÄïÞÖÜÒü«ÚûâÕàëÒÇìÒü«þÖ║ÕïòÒü¿þ¼¼ 4õ╗Ñõ©èÒü«ÕìüÕêäÒü«Õ©░ÕêäÒÇéÞÖÜÕñ£Õ««Òü©Òü«Þó½Õ«│ÒéÆÞÇâµà«ÒüùÒüƒµÄ¬þ¢«ÒÇé

Translation:
What are currently forbidden under the canopy are the powerful Cero "Gran Rey Cero" and the activation of the release of the Espada number 4 and up. Both measures would cause considerable damage to Las Noches.

Sub Text Kanji on the Left:
õ©ÇÞ¡ÀÒü¿Òü«µ£Çµ£ƒÒü«µêªÒüäÒüºÒÇüÒé░Òâ¬ÒâáÒé©ÒâºÒâ╝Òü»ÒÇîþÄïÞÖÜÒü«ÚûâÕàëÒÇìÒéƵö¥ÒüúÒüƒÒÇé

Translation:
In the final battle with Ichigo, Grimmjow fired "Gran Rey Cero".

 

[AnonymousBlank]

For a more visual representation, here is when it grazed Las Noches.

 

[Dangai_Ichigo]

Okay thanks

 

[Danny1112]

m guy's should'nt the elites sternritters scale to the high 6a tho???

 

[Danny1112]

And Shouldn't kenpachi in bankai be at least 5c using eye patch boost + bankai boost=(the accepted number)=56.37×2×10=1127 petatons

As for the 2×boost,its from his eyepatch,he does gets a boost once he removes his eyepatch tho,and toshiro also stated he was at full strength in without his eyepatch~~

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

56.37? The meteor feat was around 18.

Also, the eyepatch boost is unquantifiable, thus not arguable.

We're also barely accepting multipliers, we'll have to wait till the Multipliers thread is made before discussing the validity of it for characters in Bleach regarding Bankai.

 

[Danny1112]

^^^^yeah probably we should wait~~but i doubt this case falls under the discussion thoƒÖăÖăÖÄ.

• Also,the eyepatch boost is unquantifiable, thus not arguable

^^how is it not quantifiable tho???,kenpachi has shown feats and has statements that he does get power boost/reiatsu boost,eg would be his fight with ichigo the first time they met,also the fight between him and noitra,then the statement of toshiro during the fight with kenpachi and Gerard saying that kenpachi does get a boost from that eyepatch, so lowballing it to 2× seems quantifiable enough thoDanny1112 (talk)

56.37?The meteor feat was around 18.

^^^^I thought 56.37 petatons was gotten from gremmy 6 multiplier stuff,and kenpachi scales to this in baseDanny1112 (talk)https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1839634

 

[Danny1112]

And should'nt the elite sternritters scale above gremmy tho???

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Gerard would be the only one to logically scale due to how is powers function,Lille Barro I wouldn't scale since his powers don't really have any power behind it except when he shot down a city,and Askin was beaten by Yoruichi besides the fact his powers have nothing to do with AP as well.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

And should'nt the elite sternritters scale above gremmy tho???

What @Sigurd said: Thread:1969850#152

I would also like to point out that Askin is outright scared of Gremmy.

 

[TataHakai]

1127 petatons isn't 5-C

 

[TataHakai]

Also pretty much every sternritter including askin was scared of the meteor and Jugram even told the fodder stern to protect Yhwach because he was scared it'd do damage to or even kill him, Gremmy also said he'd be the only one who'd survive the attack if the meteor hit.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

The feat is 56 petatons with 6 clones and base gremmy is roughly 9 petatons,if i'm correct.

 

[Danny1112]

@soldier blue* OK I understand now~~still in my mind it doesn't make sense for lille barro or shunsui who is the current head captain to have lower or weaker reiatsu than base shikai kenpachi~~

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Also, as far as multipliers go, because I can see it being a thing, we can't arbitrarily give characters the full 10x multiplier. It doesn't matter about their standing in the verse. Unless it's stated specifically, we should use a Range.

Yiruichi Says Bankai is 5-10x Stronger, right?

• 5x = Low End

• 7.5x = Mid End

• 10x = High End

The Mid End should always be considered safest as simply give a character the highest possible Value without substantial proof comes off as Wank if nothing proves it.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Besides the Bankai multiplier there is also the Gintei Kaijo 5 time multiplier that occured throughout the series, it's even in the current novel atm.

 

[Danny1112]

^^^yeah and this alsoDanny1112 (talk)by the way how is the las notches calc going along???

 

[Peter_"Quicksilver"_Maximoff]

^You don't need to put your signature after a sentence.