Bleach Resistance addition for Quincy and Shinigami physiology

[Valeska24]

This CRT has been opened to add the accepted resistances for some Bleach characters to physiologies in general
So it's like a continuation of this CRT

as you know, there are resistances in the profiles of Gremmy, Unohana and Loyd against certain traits/haxes caused by Zaraki's reiatsu,Here I will talk about the need to remove these resistances from the characters' profiles and add them to the shinigami and Quincy physiology

Berenice, Jerome and Loyd fought Zaraki, and although Zaraki easily defeated them, we are not shown in the scenes that they were affected by the side effects of Zaraki's reiatsu.

Also, the Royd fighting the Zaraki and the jugram near them on the battlefield are not affected by the side effects of this reiatsu.
and I think I can give a few examples from the manga.

pernida fighting zaraki and mayuri on the battlefield
Gerard fighting with Zaraki and Byakuya, toshiro, Rukia, renji etc. on the battlefield

none of them feel the side effects of Zaraki's reiatsu.

In fact, many more examples can be given here, such as the fight with the Quincy girls and some parts in CFYOW, but I think these examples are enough to understand the subject.

Conc: This means that these resistances should be removed from the characters' profiles and transferred to characters at Sternritter Tier in Quincy physiology and High-Tier in Shinigami physiology.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

This CRT has been opened to add the accepted resistances for some Bleach characters to physiologies in general
So it's like a continuation of this CRT

as you know, there are resistances in the profiles of Gremmy, Unohana and Loyd against certain traits/haxes caused by Zaraki's reiatsu,Here I will talk about the need to remove these resistances from the characters' profiles and add them to the shinigami and Quincy physiology

Berenice, Jerome and Loyd fought Zaraki, and although Zaraki easily defeated them, we are not shown in the scenes that they were affected by the side effects of Zaraki's reiatsu.

Also, the Royd fighting the Zaraki and the jugram near them on the battlefield are not affected by the side effects of this reiatsu.
and I think I can give a few examples from the manga.

pernida fighting zaraki and mayuri on the battlefield
Gerard fighting with Zaraki and Byakuya, toshiro, Rukia, renji etc. on the battlefield

none of them feel the side effects of Zaraki's reiatsu.

In fact, many more examples can be given here, such as the fight with the Quincy girls and some parts in CFYOW, but I think these examples are enough to understand the subject.

Conc: This means that these resistances should be removed from the characters' profiles and transferred to characters at Sternritter Tier in Quincy physiology and High-Tier in Shinigami physiology.

Unless my reading comprehension took a vacation ahead of me, the admins ultimately disagreed with that thread. After Damage pointed out his logic. As a result, characters with these resistances should have them removed instead.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Agree

 

[CryptonBestDbFan]

Looks good enough

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Guys. The attempted additions are coming from OP believing that a previous thread was accepted, when in reality it was refused. Like. We literally can't agree because the argument comes from a void ab initio lol

 

[Valeska24]

Unless my reading comprehension took a vacation ahead of me, the admins ultimately disagreed with that thread. After Damage pointed out his logic. As a result, characters with these resistances should have them removed instead.

Damage has agreed with pain manipulation and Illusion Creation

Deconstruction and Spatial Manipulation were the things he disagreed with, and there is already no resistance to these haxes in the characters' profiles.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

Damage has agreed with pain manipulation and Illusion Creation

Deconstruction and Spatial Manipulation were the things he disagreed with, and there is already no resistance to these haxes in the characters' profiles.

So you're just adding Pain and Illusion, not Deconstruction and Spatial. Got it. You should probably specify in the OP nonetheless which ability resistances are being added. Without context, and with the CRT linked one might think that the suggestion is bigger than what is actually being proposed. It can also speed things up for benefit of the thread. That said, I agree then.

 

[Valeska24]

So you're just adding Pain and Illusion, not Deconstruction and Spatial. Got it. You should probably specify in the OP nonetheless which ability resistances are being added. Without context, and with the CRT linked one might think that the suggestion is bigger than what is actually being proposed. It can also speed things up for benefit of the thread. That said, I agree then.

In fact, it is quite clear what I mean by "resistances in the characters' profiles" in my article Pain Manipulation and Illusion Creation

Deconstruction and Spatial manipulation are not already in the characters profiles.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

In fact, it is quite clear what I mean by "resistances in the characters' profiles" in my article Pain Manipulation and Illusion Creation

Deconstruction and Spatial manipulation are not already in the characters profiles.

The exact changes aren't mentioned even once in the OP.

Still feel like adding them in your initial posting would benefit the thread, since that allows people to know what is being suggested at a glance. But at the end of the day it's your thread and I already agreed so, you do you.

 

[Crobatman44]

This probably works.

 

[Propellus]

I guess this works

 

[KingNanaya]

Guys. The attempted additions are coming from OP believing that a previous thread was accepted, when in reality it was refused. Like. We literally can't agree because the argument comes from a void ab initio lol

so true. so smart. so wise.

 

[Magicomethkuon]

so true. so smart. so wise.

Best of luck in the sarcasm regionals of 2024.

 

[KingNanaya]

Best of luck in the sarcasm regionals of 2024.

it wasn't sarcasm

 

[Magicomethkuon]

it wasn't sarcasm

Nice try but no one knows better than myself how dumb I really am.

 

[Arcker123]

I agree with this. Lots of evidence to just list this for high tiers instead of specific characters when every high tier character resists it.

Edit: We just need to put this on soul physiology, no other page needs to be touched.

 

[Memonto_Mori]

If the characters weren't enough, now comes physiology, I agree lol

 

[DarkGrath]

I'm not sure I understand the line of reasoning here. These resistances are listed as part of these character's profiles currently, and the suggestion is that they should instead be listed as an innate aspect of the physiology those characters share, correct?

If so, what's the proof that it is an innate part of their physiology? All that I can see in the OP is more examples of characters who appear to display such resistances. How does this establish that it is an innate part of their physiology, and not simply a resistance more characters exhibit?

 

[Arcker123]

Because Reiatsu is a physiological power and resistance to it is also physiological.

The fact we see every character resist it is inductive support as well.

 

[DarkGrath]

Because Reiatsu is a physiological power and resistance to it is also physiological.

The fact we see every character resist it is inductive support as well.

A 'physiological power'? Could you elaborate?

In the broadest use of the term, almost any power is 'physiological' in nature, and this doesn't necessarily entail that resistance to it will be shared by all people of the same species. If there is a more specific sense of the term being used - for example, if it is a power that specifically taps into the species one is apart of to affect them differently - then it needs to be substantiated in more depth.

 

[Arcker123]

Reiatsu is a part of one's physiological make up as a soul reapers or quincy, its an ability you have by being born a soul reapers or hollow as youd be born with reiatsu vents and such.

In the broadest use of the term, almost any power is 'physiological' in nature, and this doesn't necessarily entail that resistance to it will be shared by all people of the same species. If there is a more specific sense of the term being used - for example, if it is a power that specifically taps into the species one is apart of to affect them differently - then it needs to be substantiated in more depth.

Reiatsu is just an aspect of your composition in bleach with the soul vents and whatever, that's what I mean when I say it specifically deals with Physiology, it's just an aspect of the way their bodies themselves are constructed, so of course it scales. Reiatsu is a part of soul Physiology, to the point bodied themselves are constructed for it. We already accept it this way.

And besides, there's also a strong inductive case for this claim I laid out previously. We already accept this reasoning for every other reiatsu ability. You'd need to give me a reason to disbelieve what we already accept.

 

[DarkGrath]

Reiatsu is just an aspect of your composition in bleach with the soul vents and whatever, that's what I mean when I say it specifically deals with Physiology, it's just an aspect of the way their bodies themselves are constructed, so of course it scales. Reiatsu is a part of soul Physiology, to the point bodied themselves are constructed for it. We already accept it this way.

If that's true, it explains how Reiatsu is an aspect of their physiology. However, that's not my concern. How do we know that resisting the effects of Reiatsu is an aspect of their physiology? Again, all that's shown in the OP is numerous characters who are shown resisting it. I need to know why we know that resistance is because of a trait shared between the whole of the species.

 

[Arcker123]

Because not only is reiatsu just a power all souls have, we know that souls bodies specifically work with the flow of reiatsu in mind given the soul vents and such.

Again, all that's shown in the OP is numerous characters who are shown resisting it. I need to know why we know that resistance is because of a trait shared between the whole of the species.

You know that is a perfectly valid inductive justification though correct? Like what he's saying is a perfectly fine argument for the claim.

Why would I believe it's not something general when it's already been shown to be not special to specific characters?

How do we know that resisting the effects of Reiatsu is an aspect of their physiology?

Because it's done with strong Reiryoku, which is another inherent power within the verse all souls have. That's how Reiatsu works by crushing if your Reiryoku/Soul is weaker in terms of resistance, but if you have good enough Reiryoku, you can resist it's affects.

We already accept this on the page anyway.

 

[DarkGrath]

Because it's done with strong Reiryoku, which is another inherent power within the verse all souls have. That's how Reiatsu works by crushing if your Reiryoku/Soul is weaker in terms of resistance, but if you have good enough Reiryoku, you can resist it's affects.

To be clear on this - Reiryoku is the mechanism with which characters are able to resist the effects of Reiatsu, and the argument here is that Quincy/Shinigami have inherently strong enough Reiryoku to resist Reiatsu, and therefore they should all receive this resistance?

This is a valid deduction, but it's not brought up anywhere in the OP. If you can provide scans/videos or anything else of the sort to validate this, I'd be content with passing this.

You know that is a perfectly valid inductive justification though correct? Like what he's saying is a perfectly fine argument for the claim.

Why would I believe it's not something general when it's already been shown to be not special to specific characters?

'valid induction' is an oxymoron, but I won't be pedantic about this

My concern is that it's just a weak argument by itself. It's a decent supporting argument, but not enough to affirm the conclusion alone. For an analogy - I can point to thousands of humans who are lactose intolerant, but I would be incorrect to say from that alone that all humans are lactose intolerant. Pointing to a lot of characters of the same species who have a trait is not enough to confidently say that it is an inherent aspect of the species.

 

[Arcker123]

To be clear on this - Reiryoku is the mechanism with which characters are able to resist the effects of Reiatsu, and the argument here is that Quincy/Shinigami have inherently strong enough Reiryoku to resist Reiatsu, and therefore they should all receive this resistance?

This is a valid deduction, but it's not brought up anywhere in the OP. If you can provide scans/videos or anything else of the sort to validate this, I'd be content with passing this.

It doesn't have to be? This is just the reasoningbwe already accept, but sure, I'll get you the threads where this was passed once I get on my laptop.

'valid induction' is an oxymoron, but I won't be pedantic about this

Bruh.

The word valid can be used in ways beyond its definition in prop logic. Stop equivocating goober .

My concern is that it's just a weak argument by itself. It's a decent supporting argument, but not enough to affirm the conclusion alone. For an analogy - I can point to thousands of humans who are lactose intolerant, but I would be incorrect to say from that alone that all humans are lactose intolerant. Pointing to a lot of characters of the same species who have a trait is not enough to confidently say that it is an inherent aspect of the species.

I don't take this to be analogous as the amount of high tier shinigami is so much lower than the human population that it's obviously a better inductive inference to say that because like dozens of the at best hundreds of high tier souls resist it therefore its a general resistance than this.

For this context, we have enough observations to conclude a general principle.

 

[DarkGrath]

Bruh.

The word valid can be used in ways beyond its definition in prop logic. Stop equivocating goober .

Thehehe.

It doesn't have to be? This is just the reasoningbwe already accept, but sure, I'll get you the threads where this was passed once I get on my laptop.

No worries, take your time. I don't have a lot of context on the verse, so I do need elaboration on these matters, but I trust that already passed information can be extrapolated.

 

[Valeska24]

My concern is that it's just a weak argument by itself. It's a decent supporting argument, but not enough to affirm the conclusion alone. For an analogy - I can point to thousands of humans who are lactose intolerant, but I would be incorrect to say from that alone that all humans are lactose intolerant. Pointing to a lot of characters of the same species who have a trait is not enough to confidently say that it is an inherent aspect of the species.

If you accept that reiatsu is a physiological factor, which I think you do, then I'm going to talk on the basis that everyone who resists Kenpachi's reiatsu are actually High Level spirits, and everyone at that level has enough reiatsu to resist the effects of Kenpachi's reiatsu. And each of the characters defined as High Level in physiology has almost the same level of reiatsu as the characters in my examples, if not more. Therefore, at these levels, a trait that so many characters in general can resist should be able to be resisted by other characters.

 

[Arcker123]

No worries, take your time. I don't have a lot of context on the verse, so I do need elaboration on these matters, but I trust that already passed information can be extrapolated.

Yeah so all Reiatsu is is simply the expression of Reiryoku (Which is the fundemental power system in Bleach everyone has) into a physical aura. This Aura has multiple effects, such as Soul Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Paralysis, along with AP. Because Reiatsu is simply expressed Reiryoku, we know that its effects are resisted with Reiryoku, which has been directly stated before. This is why we give soul physiology resistance to all of these hax.

All that's being done in this thread, is giving the higher tier souls resistance to Kenny's Reiatsu hax, since we know that like all Reiatsu, it can be reisisted with Reiryoku, which grants resistance to Reiatsu hax say it were potent enough.

Here is the thread that got Reiatsu crush accepted as legit hax and the reasoning for it. This is a long read though, this is 2019 Bleach on VS Wiki after all.

 

[DarkGrath]

Yeah so all Reiatsu is is simply the expression of Reiryoku (Which is the fundemental power system in Bleach everyone has) into a physical aura. This Aura has multiple effects, such as Soul Manipulation, Fear Manipulation, Paralysis, along with AP. Because Reiatsu is simply expressed Reiryoku, we know that its effects are resisted with Reiryoku, which has been directly stated before. This is why we give soul physiology resistance to all of these hax.

All that's being done in this thread, is giving the higher tier souls resistance to Kenny's Reiatsu hax, since we know that like all Reiatsu, it can be reisisted with Reiryoku, which grants resistance to Reiatsu hax say it were potent enough.

Here is the thread that got Reiatsu crush accepted as legit hax and the reasoning for it. This is a long read though, this is 2019 Bleach on VS Wiki after all.

That should be good, then. I approve.

 

[Valeska24]

That should be good, then. I approve.

I've finished the changes can you close this ?

 

[DarkGrath]

I've finished the changes can you close this ?

I'll close this now.