• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Bleach Hax Resistance addition

Status
Not open for further replies.
Has Zaraki ever actually shown the ability to deconstruct his opponents passively? The scan in his current justifications doesn't include that, and it is never mentioned in the series that anyone that Zaraki has faced has just passively been deconstructed, or that he'd expect his opponent to be deconstructed and they weren't.

If there's no actual statements or feats of Resistance, I'm wary about freely handing out Resistances to supposedly "passive hax" when an alternative explanation is that these supposedly passive abilities weren't supposed to happen in the first place.
 
I’ll reply later, there appears to be some miscommunication in this thread (not in regards to Damage’s comment, but some other stuff).
 
Damage3245 said:
Has Zaraki ever actually shown the ability to deconstruct his opponents passively? The scan in his current justifications doesn't include that, and it is never mentioned in the series that anyone that Zaraki has faced has just passively been deconstructed, or that he'd expect his opponent to be deconstructed and they weren't.
Click to expand...
The passive haxes I mentioned are on Zaraki's profile. I really didn't understand what you said next...
 
Damage3245 said:
Has Zaraki ever actually shown the ability to deconstruct his opponents passively? The scan in his current justifications doesn't include that, and it is never mentioned in the series that anyone that Zaraki has faced has just passively been deconstructed, or that he'd expect his opponent to be deconstructed and they weren't.

If there's no actual statements or feats of Resistance, I'm wary about freely handing out Resistances to supposedly "passive hax" when an alternative explanation is that these supposedly passive abilities weren't supposed to happen in the first place.
Click to expand...
If you want to remove the passives, then make a separate CRT for that.

This is just for applying resistance to the currently accepted passives.
 
Spectra_Schiffer said:
The passive haxes I mentioned are on Zaraki's profile. I really didn't understand what you said next...
Click to expand...
Eseseso said:
If you want to remove the passives, then make a separate CRT for that.

This is just for applying resistance to the currently accepted passives.
Click to expand...
He’s saying that, for Kenpachi’s deconstruction passive in particular, it hasn’t been shown working against living opponents, just inanimate matter, so it’s questionable as to whether or not Kenpachi was actually passively deconstructing his opponents and they resisted it, or if the deconstruction just doesn’t apply at all. That’s what he’s trying to say. I disagree for a couple of reasons, but that’ll be part of my later post when I’m less busy.
 
Eseseso said:
If you want to remove the passives, then make a separate CRT for that.

This is just for applying resistance to the currently accepted passives.
Click to expand...
It's not the passives that I'm challenging; it's the interpretation of whether or not characters should be getting Resistances here that I am challenging.
 
TheLav69 said:
He’s saying that, for Kenpachi’s deconstruction passive in particular, it hasn’t been shown working against living opponents, just inanimate matter, so it’s questionable as to whether or not Kenpachi was actually passively deconstructing his opponents and they resisted it, or if the deconstruction just doesn’t apply at all. That’s what he’s trying to say. I disagree for a couple of reasons, but that’ll be part of my later post when I’m less busy.
Click to expand...
Damage3245 said:
It's not the passives that I'm challenging; it's the interpretation of whether or not characters should be getting Resistances here that I am challenging.
Click to expand...
Ok then, that makes a bit more sense.
 
Valeska24 said:
Of course, we are just talking about deconstruction needing to be removed here, right?
Click to expand...
I don't mind the Illusion and Pain Resistances.

It's mainly the Deconstruction and Spatial Manipulation resistances I take issue with. Kenpachi never uses spatial manipulation or deconstruction offensively on his opponents as far as I'm aware.
 
Valeska24 said:
I transferred the changes to Unohana and Gremmy's profiles and also added to Loyd's profile instead of Royd because the person fighting Zaraki is Loyd, not Royd
Click to expand...
The wording in the OP is a little unclear, but the argument isn’t that Loyd gets the resistances for fighting Kenpachi, it’s that Kenpachi gets the resistances for not being affected by the passives that Loyd copied. I’m not sure Loyd himself should get resistances to the passives, rather, I think it’s more likely that he just copied Kenpachi’s resistances to his passives. I’m iffy on it because they aren’t shown actually fighting before Loyd copies his abilities.

You’re right about the missing videos, though. The OP needs to be fixed so that Royd’s justification doesn’t link to Loyd’s fight. We just use the same link as is in Royd’s AP justification, since that shows the outcome of the fight with Royd being unscathed.

Damage3245 said:
It's not the passives that I'm challenging; it's the interpretation of whether or not characters should be getting Resistances here that I am challenging.
Click to expand...
Damage3245 said:
I don't mind the Illusion and Pain Resistances.

It's mainly the Deconstruction and Spatial Manipulation resistances I take issue with. Kenpachi never uses spatial manipulation or deconstruction offensively on his opponents as far as I'm aware.
Click to expand...


His passives haven’t explicitly been shown working against opponents, but on his profile, these passive haxxes are attributed directly to his reiatsu, and there’s precedent on for the effects of one’s reiatsu working on people they fight (unless they can resist it, obviously). So, deconstruction and space manipulation don’t inherently apply to living things, but the effects of one’s reiatsu do, so these haxxes should as well.

There’s also some supporting evidence in Ginjo’s statement that all matter in bleach has a soul, so the matter Kenpachi was deconstructing wasn’t “soullless” either.
 
TheLav69 said:
The wording in the OP is a little unclear, but the argument isn’t that Loyd gets the resistances for fighting Kenpachi, it’s that Kenpachi gets the resistances for not being affected by the passives that Loyd copied. I’m not sure Loyd himself should get resistances to the passives, rather, I think it’s more likely that he just copied Kenpachi’s resistances to his passives. I’m iffy on it because they aren’t shown actually fighting before Loyd copies his abilities.

You’re right about the missing videos, though. The OP needs to be fixed so that Royd’s justification doesn’t link to Loyd’s fight. We just use the same link as is in Royd’s AP justification, since that shows the outcome of the fight with Royd being unscathed.
Click to expand...
I want you to know that if we accept that these haxes are passive, Kenpachi already releases his reiatsu before, during and even after encountering him. And yes, since these hax are already passive and reiatsu-derived, it's not a big deal for us to be shown the fight anyway. Needs to be resistant to Hax
TheLav69 said:
His passives haven’t explicitly been shown working against opponents, but on his profile, these passive haxxes are attributed directly to his reiatsu, and there’s precedent on for the effects of one’s reiatsu working on people they fight (unless they can resist it, obviously). So, deconstruction and space manipulation don’t inherently apply to living things, but the effects of one’s reiatsu do, so these haxxes should as well.

There’s also some supporting evidence in Ginjo’s statement that all matter in bleach has a soul, so the matter Kenpachi was deconstructing wasn’t “soullless” either.
Click to expand...
But this part sounds logical, these things you say are already accepted in Fullbringer physiology and considering Kenpachi got this hax from Reishi, you are right in what you say.
 
Valeska24 said:
I want you to know that if we accept that these haxes are passive, Kenpachi already releases his reiatsu before, during and even after encountering him. And yes, since these hax are already passive and reiatsu-derived, it's not a big deal for us to be shown the fight anyway. Needs to be resistant to Hax
Click to expand...
Yeah, I’m not strictly opposed to Loyd getting the resistances, so if that’s accepted then I’m cool with it. I just think his case isn’t as clear-cut as the other people Kenpachi fights.
 
TheLav69 said:
Yeah, I’m not strictly opposed to Loyd getting the resistances, so if that’s accepted then I’m cool with it. I just think his case isn’t as clear-cut as the other people Kenpachi fights.
Click to expand...
I can understand what you mean, but there was already an encounter. Before copying, Loyd must have sensed Kenpachi's reiatsu, and since Kenpachi already has these haxes in his reiatsu, it shouldn't be too difficult for Loyd to get resistance to these features as well.
 
TheLav69 said:
The wording in the OP is a little unclear, but the argument isn’t that Loyd gets the resistances for fighting Kenpachi, it’s that Kenpachi gets the resistances for not being affected by the passives that Loyd copied. I’m not sure Loyd himself should get resistances to the passives, rather, I think it’s more likely that he just copied Kenpachi’s resistances to his passives. I’m iffy on it because they aren’t shown actually fighting before Loyd copies his abilities.

You’re right about the missing videos, though. The OP needs to be fixed so that Royd’s justification doesn’t link to Loyd’s fight. We just use the same link as is in Royd’s AP justification, since that shows the outcome of the fight with Royd being unscathed.





His passives haven’t explicitly been shown working against opponents, but on his profile, these passive haxxes are attributed directly to his reiatsu, and there’s precedent on for the effects of one’s reiatsu working on people they fight (unless they can resist it, obviously). So, deconstruction and space manipulation don’t inherently apply to living things, but the effects of one’s reiatsu do, so these haxxes should as well.

There’s also some supporting evidence in Ginjo’s statement that all matter in bleach has a soul, so the matter Kenpachi was deconstructing wasn’t “soullless” either.
Click to expand...
Oh man, assuming this hax is passive, everyone who isn't affected needs to get resistance.
 
Spectra_Schiffer said:
Since everyone is in agreement, can the profiles be edited and this OP closed?
Click to expand...
Well we have 3 staff votes for all of the resistances applying and 1 vote for only Illusion Creation and Pain Manipulation, and I know that the 48 hour grace is up, but I’m also very new here so I’d much rather have a staff member confirm whether we’re done here or not.
 
I can re-tag the staff members who have commented so far if it will help.

@DarkDragonMedeus @Elizhaa @LordGriffin1000 Can you three please re-check the thread from this post onwards? It seems to me that Kenpachi has no feats or statements of actually using Deconstruction or Spatial Manipulation on his opponents, so the characters from his fights who aren't deconstructed or affected spatially shouldn't be assumed by default to have resistances to those abilities.
 
@Damage3245 Ok so his energy passively causes deconstruction and spatial stuff but your argument is that since it's not mentioned why it doesn't work on actual characters or shown to work on them it shouldn't be assumed the passive affect is applicable to them?
 
Kind of. In the series we've never had any statements or feats of Kenpachi passively deconstructing anyone or affecting them with spatial manipulation. It's not alluded to be a thing that we should expect to happen against any of his opponents.

So when we see his opponents not being deconstructed or spatially manipulated at any point, it seems to me that we need something indicating they have a Resistance to it. If they were never going to be deconstructed in the first place, then them not being deconstructed doesn't mean they resisted it.
 
Damage3245 said:
Kind of. In the series we've never had any statements or feats of Kenpachi passively deconstructing anyone or affecting them with spatial manipulation. It's not alluded to be a thing that we should expect to happen against any of his opponents.

So when we see his opponents not being deconstructed or spatially manipulated at any point, it seems to me that we need something indicating they have a Resistance to it. If they were never going to be deconstructed in the first place, then them not being deconstructed doesn't mean they resisted it.
Click to expand...
This is a fair point. I guess I can agree with this logic.
 
I still disagree based on what is currently accepted for the reasons I outlined above above, but I won’t push the argument further because I have my own reservations regarding the scans themselves used on Kenpachi’s profile for his passive deconstruction and especially the passive space manipulation. Whatever staff decides on from this point on is fine with me.
 
Damage3245 said:
Has Zaraki ever actually shown the ability to deconstruct his opponents passively? The scan in his current justifications doesn't include that, and it is never mentioned in the series that anyone that Zaraki has faced has just passively been deconstructed, or that he'd expect his opponent to be deconstructed and they weren't.

If there's no actual statements or feats of Resistance, I'm wary about freely handing out Resistances to supposedly "passive hax" when an alternative explanation is that these supposedly passive abilities weren't supposed to happen in the first place.
Click to expand...
I guess this viewpoint is fine, then.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Valeska24
  • Locked
Bleach Resistance addition for Quincy and Shinigami physiology
Replies
30
Views
3K
GrathOfLux
GrathOfLux
Joshyyy_64
  • Locked
Gremmy downgrade Death mp
2
Replies
41
Views
4K
UchihaSlayer96
UchihaSlayer96
Guacamolefletcher
  • Locked
Kenpachi's upgrade
2 3
Replies
88
Views
7K
UchihaSlayer96
UchihaSlayer96
Saiiilors
  • Locked
Jugram Haschwalth(Bleach)Re-Tiering Suggestion + Re-Tiering Suggestion for Gremmy Thoumeaux/Why hasn't this Re-Tiering Suggestion been Implemented
Replies
8
Views
2K
Apotheosis69
Apotheosis69
Valeska24
Minor resistance addition to Byakuya
Replies
25
Views
2K
Mr. Bambu
Mr. Bambu
Back
Top