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Versus Thread Removal Requests 10

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Sonic vs Cell

  • Regen: It isn't brought up at all that Sonic can bypass Cell's Regen via Indigo Asteroid's or Ring Time's Transmutation, Violet Void or Purple Frenzy's Absorption, incapacitation via Magic Hands, ect. There's also several new things that Sonic has gotten since the thread that would allow him to contend with Cell such as his elemental rings, Nocturne Blade, Angel Amulet, and so on.
  • Skill: Sonic outmaneuver beings with superior combat experience and machines with data on his every movement pattern, so it's not like Cell had an overwhelming advantage in skill or anything.
  • AP: Cell has the AP advantage but it isn't enough to one shot or anything + Sonic has the hax and stat-amplifiers to compensate.
Conclusion: I believe this thread should be removed due to the utter lack of consideration in regards to Sonic's abilities (also it's a tad outdated due to the revisions Sonic went through since then).
 
Sonic did correctly lose to Cell. It just that this match is outdated.
 
I want to say I'm not sure if salts concept hax is really combat applicable, but then I remembered he just kind of... deleted the concept of math
 
@Cal Excalibur Sonic retains powers from his base tho'...

Even If he didn't for whatever reason, then he would literally only have his Swordsmanship going for him, which would make that match a stomp due to ES having zero notable abilities.
 
Lady of Pain vs Lavos was a stomp. (And after revisions, is even more now).

She outclassed the thing in every manner possible. Also High 2-A Lavos is baselinish at best whereas LoP has a feat that likely kills it which happens if she does as much as not restrict herself.

She also resists pretty much everything it can do while having counters Lavos has no answer to.
 
That match goes as "LoP isn't restricting her powers, thus she proceeds to generate a multiversal conceptual nuke of scale far higher than anything Lavos can tank or answer to. The end."

So yes, it is a stomp. There are 0 things Lavos can solidly do to her before that happens. And even in the offchance it had means, note that many kinds of stomps are still seen as such when the character is never getting a chance to use said means in the first place - which is the case here.
 
Because Sonic doesn't useany of those in that form.
 
Meh, if the character doesn't use item anymore in his power up form, it probably mean the item and the power up are incompatible.
 
Excalibur Sonic doesn't use his base form's items because they aren't available in his game. Nothing about the items being incompatible is ever stated.
 
Except there's nothing indicating that.

It'd be quite the unfounded assumption to say Sonic can't use something like Indigo Asteroid while in Excalibur form.
 
If he doesn't use the items, there's no reason to assume he will in a thread. The form comes from a game that predates whisps anyways. How is he supposed to have access to those.
 
If Sonic can use those abilities in base, he can use them as Excalibur. It makes no sense for him to suddenly not be able to use them after entering a stronger form.

Cell match is outdated anyways as Excalibur Sonic is being downgraded.
 
Yeah. Am with Fate on LoP match against Lavos being a stomp
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
If Sonic can use those abilities in base, he can use them as Excalibur. It makes no sense for him to suddenly not be able to use them after entering a stronger form.
Click to expand...
Except the Excalibur predates the Wisps and never had access to them. When you use Excalibur Sonic, you're using a version of Sonic who hat yet to encounter the Wisps at all. Sonic cannot lose abilities that he didn't even have access to at that point in time.

Base Sonic has gone on to gain more abilities over time as he appears in all the games and his key reflects that. Excalibur Sonic is Sonic from a specific point in time before he ever gained those new abilities.

Why would a past version of Sonic get abilities that he had yet to discover and use?
 
That's absolutely not a reason why he shouldn't have them.

If Sonic were to enter his Excalibur form again, he would retain all of his base abilities including the stuff he gained after Black Knight such as the wisps and whatnot.
 
But he hasn't entered that form again. We have to go with what he has actually done with the form and what he would have had access to based on the time of the showing. Not create hypotheticals for a situation that never occurred.

Excalibur Sonic never had access to all those abilities and has never done anything with them. It's that simple. It may change one day but until then...
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
There's nothing hypothetical about Excalibur having abilities that Base Sonic has. It's just a stronger form.
Click to expand...
A stronger form that never had access to those abilities. A stronger form that appeared before those abilities were ever conceived. A stronger form that has never displayed those powers. A stronger form entered when base Sonic did not have those powers.

So, yes, it's completely hypothetical.

This will be my last post on the matter as to not derail any further.
 
Think of it like this. Its not tbat Excalibur doean't get it when base does. Because Base Sonic from the games Excalibur is in DOESN'T have those abilities.
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
Is it really tho? Look at lavos wall of hax And ignore the serpents wall of hax that the lady resists
Click to expand...
Walls of hax are overrated, tbh. 90% of the time, a good part of them consists of powers that don't matter much (or at all) in high level matches.
 
Walls of hax are overrated, tbh. 90% of the time, a good part of them consists of powers that don't matter much (or at all) in high level matches.
FateAlbane, it is not these wall of hax are overated. It is that most of the time people don't read them completely and so they do not make the best arguments with these wall of hax. The solution is the paste the highlighted worthy abilities to the thread, then a proper debate can happen.
 
Well, what I meant is that saying "someone has a wall of hax" doesn't mean much when said wall of hax can be composed of relatively basic stuff that will become moot (for the most part) in face of a single higher level ability that the opponent may have. The principle of quality over quantity still applies in Vs Matches.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
If walls of hax mattered then Bill wouldn't have a shit ton of losses.
Click to expand...
Majority of these threads against Bill were spite threads with the same argument.

At a certain point, these matches against Bill looks like Spite Thread, in Tier 2

I mean, what's the point of your thread if he will always be "buT His HaX NeVEr WoRKs oN 4D". And OF COURSE everyone would put him against 4Ds. OF COURSE
 
because Fan has Senshinkan con-corporeality, which is closer to a very abstract type 1 abstract that anything else
 
Leviathan is capable of hitting physical and mental non-existence with incredible ease and has multiple abilities that can absorb Type 1 abstracts

If he couldn't affect Fan, ALRF would have said so on that thread
 
Ok then

I've heard from ALRF, Monarch laciel and possibly schro that Fan's willpower would nope anything below a fairly high-end 2-B attack
 
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