• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Verse Equalization

Status
Not open for further replies.
Its that simple? Then that should be included too if its just coming from the pressure of your own energy.
Yes of course,so verse equalization will give soul crush and aura effect,and also will give the ability to detect and see spirutal beings right?
 
And I don't agree with your reasoning because thats literally the definition of fanfiction.
 
Yes of course,so verse equalization will give soul crush and aura effect,and also will give the ability to detect and see spirutal beings right?

If its all generic and 100% simple from just the energy itself, then yes its included as well.
 
MachTwo said:
And I don't agree with your reasoning because thats literally the definition of fanfiction.
Click to expand...
Then you clearly dont know what fanfiction actually is. Ironically enough your definition is far more fanfiction ridden then mine is as your trying to weasle stuff out.

But I digress.
 
Anyway, It's past 5 AM here so I've stayed up long enough as it is for this. My last 2 cents before going to bed.

Reiryoku is a natural ability wihin Reiatsu. Its not a specific ability one has to actively gain, its not something only a select few in Bleach have. It's literally the most generic universally based ability in Bleach as literally everyone in the verse has it. Including everyday people. Reiryoku is what's needed for being able to see and sense spirits. Because it's apart of Reiatsu, having Reiatsu means you have Reiryoku.

So with verse equalization, if we equalize that very Reiatsu with the energy of other verses, those verses automatically get Reiryoku on the level of their own energy. This is not something that can be selectively taken away as again its apart of the energy itself. So Reiatsu can't be equalized with KI and then suddenly we take Reiryoku out of the equation because then its no longer Reiatsu and nothing can be equalized.

It's either one or the other. Otherwise, this is desperate Cherry Picking of the highest order.

Coming back later for this.
 
Verse equalized which only allow 2 diff energy source to interact with each other is makes sense too, it allow 2 verse to fight with each other without gave one side unnecessary advantage which they never show of just because the other verse have better passive ability with their energy source.

So you will not gave them unnecessary ability that can be advantageous only in combat situation vs bleach..or example char A can lose against other char B because char B happen to have abillity which can blind char A eyes..But when Char A fight against char C from bleach..Suddenly the same tactic who char B use to gain victiory over char A will be render uslesss because under verse equalized, blinding people eyes will be inefective because they can use their reiatsu sensing to see stuff.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
It's either one or the other. Otherwise, this is desperate Cherry Picking of the highest order.
Coming back later for this.
Click to expand...
You just use fanfiction on the highest order.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Then you clearly dont know what fanfiction actually is. Ironically enough your definition is far more fanfiction ridden then mine is as your trying to weasle stuff out.

But I digress.
Click to expand...
Because gave all char in fiction ability to see invisible being is deff canon.
 
@MachTwo

Nah,everyone vs Bleach have resistance to soul manipulation,passive reiatsu aura effect,ability to see souls and detect it.We been doing Bleach Vs wrong along according to Kukui,we need to look back on past vs threads to make sure Ichigo and gang aren't getting soul crushed via verse equalization.

KEK
 
MachTwo said:
Verse equalized which only allow 2 diff energy source to interact with each other
Click to expand...
Lets imagine for a moment that this would even remotely happen.

It literally still doesnt change a thing about my argument as Reiatsu would be the energy equalized. That as a result equalizes Reiryoku as well as its tied together with Reiatsu.

So your suggestion is straight up irrelvant to my argument.
 
I spent some time thinking about this and here's the conclusion I've come to: Verse equalization should not give things like riatsu via verse equalization. Note that I said "should not" instead of "do not" because if what kukui is describing is indeed the standard, then that needs to change.

Before continuing with the discussion try to think about this question, what is the purpose of a versus matchup? It is to take two or more characters who have never interacted with each other before and try to see what will happen when these distinct set of skills, power level, abilities, personality traits and limitations are put up against each other.

If the concept of verse equalization exists, it should be to ensure that the results of a matchup derive from the characters' own abilities, established weaknesses, competence in a battle etc. And are not just a result of the opponents originating from different settings.

Giving a character an ability they don't possess serves no purpose in the interest of a versus debate. We aren't writing a crossover or fan fic here that we have to consider things like how giving someone the same power source as bleach or naruto characters would play out for them. We are trying to determine, given the current information we have about two characters, who is more likely to win in a fight and with that in mind I believe Wok's, Sig's and Imade's suggestions are the best options here.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Lets imagine for a moment that this would even remotely happen.

It literally still doesnt change a thing about my argument as Reiatsu would be the energy equalized. That as a result equalizes Reiryoku as well as its tied together with Reiatsu.

So your suggestion is straight up irrelvant to my argument.
Click to expand...
In case you dont read my post which i'm sure you don't. I have explain above how those 2 diff energy will interact but not giving them each other ability.
 
@Andy

It's not like how he is describing at all,he is literally making it up,it's only an issue now because we actually added Invisibility as one of their powers.Heck they even have the aura ability in vs battles,and I haven't seen a single person every say the opposition can do it as well via verse equalization.I've never seen anyone gain powers off of verse equaliztion.
 
Tactic to blind people eyes will literally work on anyone who has no answer to those strategy but not if those same people fighting against bleach char.
 
In case you dont read my post which i'm sure you don't. I have explain above how those 2 diff energy will interact but not giving them each other ability.

And incase your not reading what im saying, that is literally impossible and straight up ridiculous.
 
Why its impossible and less ridiculous that granting anyone in fiction with headcanon ability?
 
Because it's not head canon.

Both Reiryoku and Reitsu are tied together, for the 100th time. If you give Reiatsu to other verses, you have to give Reiryoku too.

You can't give Reiatsu without Reiryoku as its no longer Reaitsu anymore. This is extremely simple.
 
>Cherry Picking of the highest order.

Speed equalized is literally Cherry Picking because we don't equalized speed gaining via speed enhancement technique.
 
. . . . .

Unbelievable. I can't with this thread anymore, or you Machtwo.

I have given my 2cents and I'm sticking by it period. Still don't agree that's on you. We're agreeing to disagreeing.

Unfollowing.
 
Head canon probably isn't the word yeah. Afaik it refers to speculation about a character, lore, events etc not what we're discussing here.
 
>You can Cherry Picking with Speed equalized

>But you can only equalize everything with verse equalize or you don't use verse equalize at all
 
I've only read half this thread but I haven't seen it brought up so.

Isn't this equalization stuff only about abilities that over 98% of a verse has, which that 98% of the verse has a way of ignoring completely, and which makes fights impossible if the other can't counteract it?

All these comparisons to 1-A immortality and super strong hax are meaningless, since they don't come from verses where everyone has insanely broken precog but also insanely broken anti precog so they just fight each other normally.

This is the difference with Jojo and (unless I'm mistaken) with Bleach.
 
I still don't see the issue here with giving them invisibility since it is a side ability of them as a byproduct of being ghost/spirits.

You can still hit them as it is explained in the series that Shinigami and Hollows can be touched by normal people due to the former having high spiritual density body that makes them tangible. It's just they can't be seen due said normal people not having either extrasensory perception or enough Reiryoku to see the supernatural.

The only thing this affects for VS Matches is that Hollows, Spirits (Dead Fullbringers and Such) and Shinigami characters would be best suited in fairer match ups with those that have extrasensory perceptions that allow them to see spirits, souls, ghost etc.


To "Verse Equalize" we would have to give the opposing characters enough Reiryoku that it provides supernatural perception. But then that opens up the argument of "How much Reiryoku?" Now anyone could argue a Bleach character Reiatsu crushes the opponent since the opponent has meager Reiryoku or uncontrollable Reiryoku and can't even use Reiatsu for a defense.

It's more easier to just go the accurate way instead bending around rules just to target Bleach's specific mechanics. No reason to remove an ability just because it limits the amount of potential VS Matches, we strive for accuracy as an indexing wiki.
 
Well I'm back to my own thread, just let me read everything and I'll have a wall of text ready in a bit
 
Before I type it, I think some people are kinda misinterpreting the general concept, so let me elaborate with the stands example. I am not saying only stands can hurt stands, I am saying that sort of characteristic should only be equalized to people who can otherwise hit intangibles or have some equivalent force or whatever as opposed to literally everybody.
 
@Imade

Because, like Astral mentioned above, Bleach characters's invisibility doesnt come from abilities that they themselves have. It's a state of being kind of case since it's the humans in the Bleach verse themselves that lack the ability to see them instead of spirits having the ability to remain unseen. In other words, this really isn't an ability for spirits, it's a disability for humans. So why exactly should we apply that kind of verse-mechanic to other verses?

And it wouldnt just be invisibility it would be intangibility too according to the last Bleach thread. Thats the reason why Bleach characters are getting Non-Physical Interaction in the first place. Because in bleach, if you can't see spirits you can't touch or sense them. So when applying that rule to other verses, it means those other verses can't see, interact or sense Bleach characters to fight against them at all. It makes it completely impossible for nearly any verse to have a match with Bleach Characters, unless we give them Reiryoku when we equalize Reiatsu with the other verses energies (which no one has still properly explained why we shouldn't).

The only small thing I can agree with being an issue is the "how much Reiryoku" bit and that isn't hard to determine since these verses aren't below the capabilites of normal everyday people. Someone who can use their energies to, say, fire energy attacks, fly, amp their stats, walk on trees and water, etc. will reasonably have more Reiryoku than that of a regular person.
 
Why is it a disability for humans and not an ability of dead things? Why are you assuming its a negative?

Only weak souls are intangible, not the majority of named characters as mentioned in the most recent thread.
 
Not too bad actually. We can't restrict an immense number of fights to give one verse an unfair advantage.

Explain the allowance of smurf powers and passive abilities then

Which is again, no more unfair than Yhwach's Omniprecog and his NLFish power nulling. What exactly are even the mechanics of this Precog?

So why exactly are you pushing for restriction of an ability more people can get around? If its by unfair standards, far more people can hit intangibles or have something that can legitimately be equalized than can get around stuff like that.

Anyway, this still isnt the same as Bleach's mechanic. If he stomps a lot of peope with his hax, then he stomps a lot of people. That doesnt mean his abilities make an immense number of matches impossible to happen whatsoever like Bleach's mechanic would. Because unlike bleach, resistances can be bypassed/insufficient and his invulnerability only does so much like Invulnerability in general.

His invulnerability is backed by very potent law manipulation. Stomping a lot of people inherently makes those matches impossible, as the opponents can do absolutely nothing. You know what else can be bypassed or insufficient? Invisibility and intangibility.


Yes and the means of using and having those powers for Bleach are 100% unfair for literally more than half of fiction. Or any verse thats even remotely in the same tier as them. Plus, like I said, this isnt even an ability for Bleach Characters, its a disability for the fodder in their own verse.

Most of fiction is sub tier 8 though That's very much an ability. Them being above the baseline is perfectly usable. Also aren't there a lot of magical verses in tiers 7-5? You seem to be dramatically exaggerating just how many matches you miss out on.

Because those "stomps" don't apply to literally every single verse and their mother ever. A lot of stomps are one thing. Allowing an ability that will blatently disregard battles being possible for almost everyone ever are another thing. Unless tier 5 and below suddenly have countless verses of people being able to see and contact Bleach characters, its again being incredibly restricitve of matches ever being able to be done for Bleach.

All you need is a spiritual power that can be legitimately equalized or some other method around invis and intangibility. Bam there you go match makable. Tell the "matches are impossible" thing to people like Darth Nihilus.

Which means its not the standard. People with chakra are as thats the focus for Naruto. Ninjas using chakra for battling purposes. Not random everyday fodder.

No, it means the plot focuses on people who are beyond baseline human in their verse. People with no spiritual powers have no reason to suddenly have it bestowed upon them, and stuff like "Can only be hurt by Chakra" is pretty easily gotten around by only taking that as seriously as it's been shown to work.
 
I agree with the op some as well. The onyl energies that get equalized are similar energies

Now about the invisibility being used in battle I completely disagree. That doesn't even have to be equalized. Just change SBA to say that invisibility of Soul reapers is turned off during battles. You can still add it to their profiles but it shouldn't be used in battles for obvious reasons
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Saying that you need Bleach Reiatsu to see / hit a Bleach character is like saying that if you don't have Naruto Chakra you can't resist ANY Genjutsu. It's why verse equalization exists. To not give unfair advantages that would apply to an entire verse.
Click to expand...
Not at all what I am saying. I am saying there's gotta at least be something equivalent to equalize to, so people like Hotline Miami aren't going to have their nonexistent spirituality equalized. People from stuff lie Dragon Ball or Destiny or even Dark Souls in the case of Bleach are still fair game (ignoring the tier discrepancies for a bit).

Mindhax is gotten around by having a mindhax resistance.
 
Whoa....this would be a huge problem if this gets passed and soul reapers get invisibility and intangibility as a result of this....

Edit: Simply because of a verse mechanic and not an actual ability.
 
Because she is speaking from the perspective of a dead thing. Humans are the basic race from which all other races stem from.

>Pluses, dead humans.

>Hollows, corrupted dead humans.

>Shinigami, stronger dead humans.

>Quincy, special humans.

>Fullbringers, different special dead humans.

Anything the different kinds of souls/spiritually aware humans have is an advantage over what they originated from, humans.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

TheGreatJedi13
Verse Equalization vs Collaboration information
Replies
1
Views
524
TheGreatJedi13
TheGreatJedi13
AThe1412
Can you restrict a character's Standard Equipment if it gives them a different tier?
Replies
2
Views
723
TheGreatJedi13
TheGreatJedi13
Keeweed
SBA change that should have happened forever ago (stopping the hyper active murder man)
Replies
8
Views
2K
Keeweed
Keeweed
Flashlight237
SBA Modification Suggestion: State of Mind
Replies
8
Views
2K
IdiosyncraticLawyer
IdiosyncraticLawyer
The_2nd_Existential_Seed
Dreams Verse Creation
Replies
8
Views
659
The_2nd_Existential_Seed
The_2nd_Existential_Seed
Back
Top