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Verse Equalization

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@Dragon

Literally nothing,if they can see spirits in their own verse that is completely okay.

What Kukui is arguing that we should give people powers they don't have due to verse equalization,people that have no feats of seeing ghost can now suddenly see them,people that have no feats of detecting energy can now suddenly sense energy.
 
Yeah people who can see ghosts can still do that.

As for angaa, i feel like you may have missed that I'm not pushing for the removal of the concept entirely so much as a better defining of it. As for your first point, consider SMT. Demons all have higher dimensional immortality, and observation users can all negate that. This in essence means they're fighting normally, but we don't equalize that to others.
 
Because killing isnt the only option to win. Simple as that.

4 actually and even then, im pretty sure White Face's Non-existence isn't naturally done by whatever energy source he uses, if he even has one.

It is because thats literally the only way possible Bleach characters in the verse are invisible. Not seeing spirits is the default for Bleach humans unlike the special cases with Tatsuki and co. Taking advantage of the humans anti-sensing feats to remain unseeable. That doesnt mean they're truly invisible.

You read my sentence wrong then. Ghosts get intangibility because ghosts are naturally intangible in ficition. They don't need feats of being untouched first to get it. It needs to be disproven that they're untouchable, that they can be touched.
 
Wokistan said:
Yeah people who can see ghosts can still do that.

As for angaa, i feel like you may have missed that I'm not pushing for the removal of the concept entirely so much as a better defining of it. As for your first point, consider SMT. Demons all have higher dimensional immortality, and observation users can all negate that. This in essence means they're fighting normally, but we don't equalize that to others.
Click to expand...
No-one would push for the removal of verse equalization entirely but you're pushing for Jojo's stands and Bleach's invisibility to only be equalized with verses with similar things, and I'm giving some arguments for why it's justifiable equalizing them to everything.

False equivalency. Not 98%+ of the cast in SMT are demons.
 
@Kukui

Bleach characters are invisible to any character who can't see spirits, simple as that. Basic humans don't have anti-feats, they are the standard.
 
I mean, I am gonna toss this out here. Haki is more to do with will power than life force. Also, it isn't the only power system within the verse either
 
You only care about what's relevant to the main cast though judging by your past replies here, right? Pretty sure most of the featured verse has eotuer rez negation or higher dimensional rwz.
 
Wait NVM angaa thought you were kukui. As such I can't assume you agree with all that he's stated, but that would be how it is being approached with beleach
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
If an entire race of non-ghost beings have feats of intangibility we give it to them, not ignore it.
So what? Are we to assume that those "fodders" you talk about just have eyes problems or something and are unable to see something that "normal people" should be able to? By definition, fodder in a verse are the normal people and unless proven otherwise, other people from other verse should be treated the same as them.
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I never said to ignore it Saikou. You missed the point of my comment too. I said that ghosts should be assumed to be intangible by default until proven otherwise not to be. What does non-ghost beings have to do with this?

That literally has nothing to do with why im against Bleach characters using invisibility in matches here.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
@Kukui
Bleach characters are invisible to any character who can't see spirits, simple as that. Basic humans don't have anti-feats, they are the standard.
Click to expand...
Except humans not being able to see them is the anti-feat.

Not that Bleach characters can actually turn invisible.
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Because killing isnt the only option to win. Simple as that.

4 actually and even then, im pretty sure White Face's Non-existence isn't naturally done by whatever energy source he uses, if he even has one.

It is because thats literally the only way possible Bleach characters in the verse are invisible. Not seeing spirits is the default for Bleach humans unlike the special cases with Tatsuki and co. Taking advantage of the humans anti-sensing feats to remain unseeable. That doesnt mean they're truly invisible.

You read my sentence wrong then. Ghosts get intangibility because ghosts are naturally intangible in ficition. They don't have feats of being untouched first to get it. It needs to be disproven that they're untouchable, that they can be touched.
Click to expand...
Less people can incap Reinhard Heydrich than can bypass invisibility or have something that can be equalized. So going the fairness route isn't gonna work if you want to remain consistent, which you should.

3 of the characters are white face, and it's NEP is natural.

Yes and as not seeing spirits is the default that shall be the default for characters without spiritual stuff of their own. You're in essence arguing for my point here.

This still doesn't mean anything. Explain why that's at all relevant.
 
Why though? It is an ability they have (that can be gotten around pretty easily) so why should it be restricted?

So we should just restrict every passive ability?
 
I'd go further than only caring about what's relevant to the main cast, and extend it to what's relevant to almost the entire cast.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Why though? It is an ability they have (that can be gotten around pretty easily) so why should it be restricted?

So we should just restrict every passive ability?
Click to expand...
It should be restricted because over 98% of the verse has it, and that 98+% has a way to make it completely irrelevant, and because without a way around it a fight is impossible.

There's three criteria here. Passive abilities and broken hax don't meet all three.
 
How the hell is that an anti-feat? I'm not sure if you know what that is.Humans are completely oblivious and unaware of the spiritual worlds existence at all.Thats not an anti-feat like at all it's a trait they have for being basic humans.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
Why though? It is an ability they have (that can be gotten around pretty easily) so why should it be restricted?
So we should just restrict every passive ability?
Click to expand...
Because, as Rukia explains, humans don't have enough spiritual capability on their own to see spirits. It's not that the spirits themselves have the ability of invisibility for their own benefit. It's that the people in the setting around them aren't specially equipped to see them as they lack that ability.
 
98% of the verse '''doesn't''' have it though. Just because the majority of named characters have a passive way around it to be relevant doesn't grant it to some basic scrub on the side of the road.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
98% of the verse doesn't have it though. Just because the majority of named characters have a passive way around it to be relevant doesn't grant it to some basic scrub on the side of the road.
Click to expand...
By "verse" I'm referring to the named characters.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
How the hell is that an anti-feat? I'm not sure if you know what that is.Humans are completely oblivious and unaware of the spiritual worlds existence at all.Thats not an anti-feat like at all it's a trait they have for being basic humans.
Click to expand...
Because again, it is something they themselves cannot acomplish. It has nothing to do with the spirits themseles. They can be seen clear as day but humans wouldnt be able to see them because they have the inability to actually see them.

The humans lack the ability. Your talking about using an inability from one side to grant an ability to the other, even when the latter doesnt actually have it on their own.
 
@kukui

So why should other non spiritual characters be able to if that is a canonical thing?
 
You still haven't explained what category hive God's is ok but category bleach spirits is not.
 
Reishi is spiritual matter,you need to be spiritually aware to see it lmao.You know the thing Shinigami and all things are made of in the spiritual world? or how every object has a soul in the human world but are mainly ads out of physical matter.
 
Wokistan said:
@kukui
So why should other non spiritual characters be able to if that is a canonical thing?
Click to expand...
You mean verses without a spiritual energy to be equalized to bleaches?

I thought I already admitted to agreeing they wouldnt.
 
You mean verses without a spiritual energy to be equalized to bleaches?

I thought I already admitted to agreeing they wouldnt.

So why do you want to let them?
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Reishi is spiritual matter,you need to be spiritually aware to see it lmao.You know the thing Shinigami and all things are made of in the spiritual world? or how every object has a soul in the human world but are mainly ads out of physical matter.
Click to expand...
Exactly my point on the "inability" part. Humans need to be spiritually aware to see them but they cant. They lack spiritual perception.

So why are we suddenly assuming "you need to be spiriually aware to see it" means its an ability for the spirits instead of just being an anti-ability for non-spirits? Thats taking the lack of what one side has to make it an ability for the other.
 
AnonymousBlank said:
You mean verses without a spiritual energy to be equalized to bleaches?
I thought I already admitted to agreeing they wouldnt.
Click to expand...
So why do you want to let them?

I...never wanted to let them have it.

Im talking about verses who have a spiritual energy that they use for abilities. Like Narutos chakra or Dragon Balls KI.

Not a verse like Attack on Titan or Sword Art Online that have no spirit energy standards.
 
@Kukui Then you've just been agreeing with everyone else from the start?
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Because that is what you need to see them lol,Enhanced Senses or Extrasensory Perception.
Click to expand...
Then its simply the Bleach humans weakness.

Not an ability for Bleach spirits. Taking advantage of a weakness doesnt mean you get an ability.
 
Holy shit dude,they're invisible and you need enhanced senses or extrasensory perception to see them.That is a perk of being invisible.That is by definition an ability so what are you talking about?
 
Agnaa said:
@Kukui Then you've just been agreeing with everyone else from the start?
Click to expand...
Possibly?

From how I understood this thread to be, Woki argues that only verses with sensing abilities should be equalized to Bleach to see Bleach Characters.

I disagreed with that and said as long as the verse has spirit energy standards like chi or KI, and make suitable use of it, then they should be benefited from Verse Equalization.

I never argued verses who use no spirit enery at all to be effected by this. At least im pretty sure I didnt.
 
Wait so we agreed on this the whole time

Lol what

Angaa, you disagree still?
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Then its simply the Bleach humans weakness.

Not an ability for Bleach spirits. Taking advantage of a weakness doesnt mean you get an ability.
Click to expand...
What do you mean?

Spirits in bleach do have the ability to see other spirits, why its not an ability?
 
The argument was that you needed sensing abilities or spiritual energy.
 
Wokistan said:
Wait so we agreed on this the whole time

Lol what

Angaa, you disagree still?
Click to expand...
I still disagree, and I'd like to get to that now.
 
How is it a weakness for humans when humans regularly don't have such an ability in Bleach and even regularly in fiction do humans not have it? Seems you're trying to reverse just so it doesn't pass.

Edit: You just need the ability to see ghost or extrasensory perceptions.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Holy shit dude,they're invisible and you need enhanced senses or extrasensory perception to see them.That is a perk of being invisible.That is by definition an ability so what are you talking about?
Click to expand...
The fact you "need spiritual senses" to see them proves its just a weakness humans in bleach have instead of being an actual ability for the spirits.

Its taking advantage of a weakness to give others an ability.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
How is it a weakness for humans when humans regularly don't have such an ability in Bleach and even regularly in fiction do humans not have it? Seems you're trying to reverse just so it doesn't pass.
Click to expand...
Just stop with this dumb argument. You agree with each other but just aren't getting your words across well.
 
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