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"Varied 5C/5B to 4B" for the Sentry (Marvel).

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Confluctor

Confluctor

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We have tons of statements which says Sentry's powers have an in-canon explanation for why they change regularly.



And at his weakest should be around Ares level. He has been able to hurt him before:
  • And this statement from Tony, .

(Plus whatever happened in Agents of Wakanda...)

And at his highest should be comparable to Thor (base), Nova, Quasar, etc. (Sources: Siege #1 - 4, Annihilation Scourge: Omega)



There is another Marvel CRT going on I think, but I wanted to "book" (lol) this slot.
 
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We may need more input from more Marvel experts, but I can sort of see it being a similar case with Silver Surfer and Thor.
 
Yeah it's odd that everyone got kinda nerfed but he was forgotten. Kinda meta lol
 
We don't use guides for anything besides supporting evidence, plus imo this's kinda pointless since a few people scale to him properly
 
What do you mean by the first part?

And secondly, no one really scales from him. Everyone he has fought has been scaled from someone else already. Except for his own cast
 
Anyway, here are more examples of it:
1. - Sentry V2 #8
2. - World War Hulk #4
3. - New Avengers #17/18
 
A lot of the inconsistency in his power level is really due to plot-induced stupidity, but maybe we could give him a similar 5-A to 4-B tier as Thor, to accommodate this uneven portrayal better?
 
Confluctor said:
And secondly, no one really scales from him. Everyone he has fought has been scaled from someone else already. Except for his own cast
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Actually, Blue Marvel scales to stable Sentry. They had an even tussle. King Hyperion indirectly scales to Sentry due to being able to defeat nearly Blue Marvel and only lost because he didn't finish the job due to his own arrogance.

LordTracer said:
Speaking of Gladiator, why doesn’t he have a Varies tier?
Click to expand...

Honestly, Gladiator is a slightly different case, IMO. We know that at he needs confidence in himself and what he's doing to express his full power. Any doubts and his power drops. Gladiator is normally very confident and the times he's not is when he's been tricked into doubting himself or his cause. Anything else is PIS unless he's fighting someone outside his league even at his best like Tyrant or Hela. I'd say he needs another key for when he's doubting himself as his typical and normal level of power is consistently 4-B.

Back to the matter at hand, I think that a character like Sentry and Hulk should get a Varies Tier because his power level is fully based on his mental state, which is constantly in flux. Characters like Gladiator, Thor and Silver Surfer have much more consistent levels and should have keys to reflect that.
 
I think that the "5-A while holding back on Earth, 4-B when going all out" tiers for Thor and other Marvel characters that The_Impress/Zark established should remain, and that Sentry should get a similar treatment.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
Sentry is someone like Gladiator, who has an in-universe explanation for his varying levels of power. So giving him a split key isn't bad idea.
Click to expand...
Agreed.


C2_of_Omegon said:
Actually, Blue Marvel scales to stable Sentry. They had an even tussle. King Hyperion indirectly scales to Sentry due to being able to defeat nearly Blue Marvel and only lost because he didn't finish the job due to his own arrogance.
Click to expand...
Oh forgot about those two. But then again, it shouldn't scale from him considering he wasn't at full power + the presence of anti-matter which weakens him by messing with his mind, which is directly related to his power levels.



 
I gave it a bit of thought but why are we scaling King Hyperion from Blue Marvel (and by extension, Sentry) when their fight lasted less than 3 pages? Why not scale him from Hyperion 712, who is obviously in the solar system tier. In exiles, KH fought two Hyperions, one of them was 712 and the other was from 5764 (aka the Goggled Hype).


Both Hyperon 712 and 616 scales directly from Thor. He isn't as strong as Thor but very very close to his levels. And 712 can also be directly scaled from Gladiator and Ikaris.
 
I think that placing Ikaris at 4-B seems like an exaggeration. He seems more at a "Thor severely holding back to tier 5-A" level. He has occasionally very briefly matched much stronger characters, but that can be explained with standard Marvel inconsistency, similarly to the Spider-Man level characters.
 
Well yes, but scaling him from Sentry indirectly, who was obviously weakened due to all the anti-matter in the planet is even worse way to go about it...

5A seems more than fine for King Hyperion tbh. He also fought against Juggernaut during Thunderbolts 151 or 152 and then Man King kills him.

Also, straight up 4b for anti-man and Blue Marvel seems as wrong as a straight 4b for the Sentry. If you are gonna change everyone else, might as well change these three too.

Edit: straight up 4b for America Chavez also seems so wrong. Might need to change her tier list or at least the justification. (Tbf everyone and their grandmas from Marvel and DC at 4b just feels so wrong)
 
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Sorry for the late response. Him being 5-A, up to 4-B like other Marvel Heralds seems like the best and most consistent way to do this.
 
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Yes, agreed, but we need somebody who knows what they are doing to handle improving on the profile page with proper justifications.

Also, the other similar characters are 5-A when restricted and 4-B when going all out, if I remember correctly.
 
Would we just say he compares to other heroes when they hold back or is there anything more direct he scales to?

And yeah, that's how they are rated. What I said previously was just a mistake on my part. I fixed it now though.
 
Well, there was a mention above regarding that he needs to be in perfect balance with himself to reach his full power.
 
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Yeah, Sentry needs to be fully stable to reach proper levels of powers, which means either separated 100% from Void or merged with him.

While on the topic of Sentry, I think the justification on WWH page needs to be changed. I mean the comic does treat this Sentry as someone at his best power levels but knowing how Greg Pak treated the characters and their continuity and characters didn't match (aside from Hulk himself), I think it needs a bit of a revamp. Sentry wanting to unleash his full power is too occ, considering how it takes place slightly after Mighty Avengers Vol.1 and we know what went down there.
 
Yeah, I've always just thought Sentry going all out was odd. He says he's ready to play god and that he enjoys finally going all out, but it's contradicted later on as you said. I guess we could just scale him to Pre-Bendis Sentry at his peak? Also, shouldn't it be renamed to "Green Scar Hulk"? "World War Hulk" is the name of the book, not the character. He's been called the Green Scar by both narration and Ewing.
 
Right. Sentry is my favourite character ever so I absolutely hated his characterization is that arc. For most part is was good, minus the final issue. It just replied too much on plot convenience for him to go all out which was against his character especially considering what went down in Sentry Vol 2 and other Bendis stories.


And definitely agreed. Green Scar seems fitting.
 
Regardless what we think about it, The Sentry expended so much of his power in his fight against The Hulk that he reverted to human form, so he was using his full power.
 
Anyway, we can change the Hulk incarnation's name to The Green Scar if you wish.
 
I mean yeah, but we also need to take into account the surrounding of the story and the continuity of the character.

Well anyway, as long as the varied thing goes forward, my thing here is done lol.
 
Is somebody knowledgeable willing to apply what we have agreed here?
 
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