Marvel Comics Herald Tiers Upgrade to 3-C

[Antvasima]

So should we let Confluctor apply his suggested revisions for the moment, in lack of better options, and then work on adjusting the details?

Yeah that's fine.

I think that this can be applied, in lack of better options, but would appreciate further community input regarding the specifics about which characters that should scale to what.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Aren't those the 3-C reviews that were done a while ago?

I think what remains to be discussed is the 5-B scale.

 

[Confluctor]

Apparently I missed one of Colossus keys so that should probably be fixed.

 

[Antvasima]

What is left to discuss here? This thread is already getting too long.

I think that this can be applied, in lack of better options, but would appreciate further community input regarding the specifics about which characters that should scale to what.

Aren't those the 3-C reviews that were done a while ago?

I think what remains to be discussed is the 5-B scale.

@C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy @The_Impress

Your further help would be very appreciated here regarding which characters that should scale to Gilgamesh/5-B (or the Avengers Hyperion/5-A) instead of Thor and the Silver Surfer/3-C.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Ok, after going through the thread, I think this is what is left to discuss.

5-B scaling chain from Gilgamesh, which will tie into Hyperion's 5-B (he will be the upper end of the chain). This could potentially effect the following;

1. Gilgamesh
2. Ikaris
3. Thena
4. Sersi
5. Blue Marvel
6. Carol
7. America Chavez
8. Anti man
9. King Hyperion - upscales from BM
10. Hyperion (avengers) (he can upscale from this value and also scale to his own 5-B feat)
11. Hyperion (squadron Supreme) - scales directly to Ikaris, if not above him. And has been a pain in the ass for non-4-B Thor.
12. Hyperion (squadron sinister) - due to being a pain in the ass for non-4-B Thor.

I would also like for wonder man to be part of it, but I will wait and see what you guys think

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Here is a list of other characters that scale to 5-B:https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:LordTracer/marvel_or_somethinh?useskin=fandomdesktop

I think Impress mentioned that some characters shouldn't scale Carol because she holds back in her fights.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

Another thing if Hyperion (Avengers) is High 6-C and 3-C at peak, the 5-A feat shouldn't be mentioned because it's in the middle, like Thor's multiple 5-B/5-A feats

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Unrelated to 5-B scaling, but based on his justifications, I feel like Godzilla's Original Size key should warrant 3-C and not High 6-C

At least Large Island level (Matched Thor, with Thor comparing his strength to the Midgard Serpent[2], and Hercules had to put in extreme effort to overpower a simple stomp from him[3]. Godzilla was also called one of the most powerful entities on Earth, at least on three[4] times)[5], higher with Rage Power (Can enter this state in order to protect his own life, he becomes stronger as long as his rage lasts by drawing upon an inner strength, tap hidden resources[4].)

 

[The_Impress]

Unrelated to 5-B scaling, but based on his justifications, I feel like Godzilla's Original Size key should warrant 3-C and not High 6-C

It’s wonk though, since Godzilla fights a Thor who was EXPLICITLY holding back to not A. Cause collateral and B. Cause death of Godzilla

 

[Hellbeast]

Could he get possibly 3-C based off Herc?
It's not ideal but he's in a vacuum seemingly

 

[The_Impress]

I mean Thor's statement was "We", so likely Herc and others is wonk

 

[Confluctor]

Another thing if Hyperion (Avengers) is High 6-C and 3-C at peak, the 5-A feat shouldn't be mentioned because it's in the middle, like Thor's multiple 5-B/5-A feats

I think nuking the high 6C for 13034 Hype is probably the ideal situation.

 

[The_Impress]

Why? High 6-C is a valid holdbacc

 

[Confluctor]

The justification aren't good tho. Looking through that arc again, that wasn't a high 6c Hulk as far as I can see.

And while he does hold back a lot, there aren't many feats of him. Like upscaling from Namor could work - although from what I can remember, Namor wasn't doing anything. Or scale him Thundra - where they two sparred, albeit not seriously.

Or just calc his tier 7 feat. His lowest and his highest would make more sense ¯\(ツ)/¯

Edit; I just reread his fight against Thundra, and she did literally nothing to him. And Hyperion wasn't even fighting.

 

[Excellence616]

Eternals kinda are, tbh. They're downscaled from standard heralds, in context to their verse placements, with Gilgamesh being physically the strongest.

Both Hyperion and Thanos are physically stronger than Gilgamesh

 

[Confluctor]

Which Hyperion?

 

[The_Impress]

Both Hyperion and Thanos are physically stronger than Gilgamesh

Thanos is stronger than most 3-Cs total. Not much of a point mate

 

[Excellence616]

Which Hyperion?

Hyperion Earth 13034

 

[Confluctor]

Yeah he is

 

[Antvasima]

He was making the point that Thanos and the original Squadron Supreme Hyperion have been retconned into being members of the Eternals.

 

[Antvasima]

Another thing if Hyperion (Avengers) is High 6-C and 3-C at peak, the 5-A feat shouldn't be mentioned because it's in the middle, like Thor's multiple 5-B/5-A feats

This seems like a sensible point in any case.

 

[The_Impress]

He was making the point that Thanos and the original Squadron Supreme Hyperion have been retconned into being members of the Eternals.

Funky, didn't know latter was a thing.

Anyways referring to the unofficial team "Eternals", not the species whole

 

[Confluctor]

Idk if we can call it a retcon, just revealed later. His history was mysterious before he met 616 Eternals found out he was also one of them but from 712.

712 Eternals don't belong on earth but space

 

[Antvasima]

Well, let's try to return to the relevant discussion here please.

 

[Antvasima]

Bump.

This is important.

 

[The_Impress]

Wonder Man honestly, likely holds back too considering he's huge on pacifism, I don't vibe with scaling folks to him nilly willy either if I'm honest.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems reasonable.

 

[The_Impress]

So yeah if anyone wants this thread to progress, I'd want a reliable source to confirm whether Wonder Man scaling works or not

 

[Antvasima]

Wonder Man honestly, likely holds back too considering he's huge on pacifism, I don't vibe with scaling folks to him nilly willy either if I'm honest.

So yeah if anyone wants this thread to progress, I'd want a reliable source to confirm whether Wonder Man scaling works or not

@C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @LordTracer @Confluctor @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy

Your help would be appreciated here.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Cap's shield dura hasn't been upgraded yet

Dreadpool should also be updated

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Would somebody here be willing to handle that please?

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Did so for dreadpool

 

[Antvasima]

I handled Captain America's page:

Captain America (Marvel Comics)

Doesn't matter what the press says. Doesn't matter what the politicians or the mobs say. Doesn't matter if the whole country decides that something wrong is something right. This nation was founded on one principle above all else: The requirement that we stand up for what we believe, no matter...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Confluctor]

Wonder Man honestly, likely holds back too considering he's huge on pacifism

Don't really care what happens, but just wanted to say, Wonder Man wasn't always a pacifist - or anything close to what he is today - back then. In the 80s, and especially 90s, he would go proper ape shit sometimes. It wasn't until him going mad in that 2011 annual that he changed his mindset and became a proper pacifist.

Been a while since I read, but I think he died again around 2011 - 2013 and then after he resurrected, he changed his views on violence. Before that, not so much.


He does hold back, yes, but no on Thor or surfer level.

But ultimately, I don't really mind him not scaling to tier 5 stuff, honestly I don't think anyone should scale to Gilgamesh's 5B.

 

[Eseseso]

Isn't a solid 3-C durability feat for Doom him casually tanking a beatdown from a Hulk Robot given some Power Cosmic by Galactus himself?

 

[The_Impress]

Don't really care what happens, but just wanted to say, Wonder Man wasn't always a pacifist - or anything close to what he is today - back then. In the 80s, and especially 90s, he would go proper ape shit sometimes. It wasn't until him going mad in that 2011 annual that he changed his mindset and became a proper pacifist.

"Going ape" means an OOC moment though, not talking about that :v

He does hold back, yes, but no on Thor or surfer level.

Sounds like an arbitrary distinction

Isn't a solid 3-C durability feat for Doom him casually tanking a beatdown from a Hulk Robot given some Power Cosmic by Galactus himself?

Cosmic Hulk isn't 3-C, he's like, High 6-C/5-B.

 

[Eseseso]

Cosmic Hulk isn't 3-C, he's like, High 6-C/5-B.

1. Really?

2. Well then at least that's a good 5-B dura feat

 

[Confluctor]

"Going ape" means an OOC moment though, not talking about that :v

I mean angry and stops holding back

Sounds like an arbitrary distinction

Not really. Their power levels goes between tier 6 and 3 whereas Wondys stays relatively similar. Between 7 and 6

 

[Antvasima]

Wonder Man effortlessly took down the Red Hulk and has withstood a prolonged beating from the Devil Hulk. I think that he is likely considerably higher than tier 6 at his peak.

 

[Confluctor]

Yes, that's his newer incarnation. The red Hulk one came from 2011/2012 era where he stopped holding back, and iirc, red Hulk wasn't at his 3-C level.

As for his newest/current incarnation, that only scales to his durability. He doesn't fight so hard to tell.