Upgrade every bubble/world from Maou Gakuin to tier 2A

[EldemadeDityjon]

A

Are you sure about this? I find it natural to think its impossible, either this or its a contradiction to bleach.

It's like it has 3D space and 1D time. Garganta is technically void space. Which isn't 4D space.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This part I believe is completely wrong. I may be wrong if I am just correct me.

As a supporter bleach there exists 3D space which atleast contains 3 universes (4D) scale. Which wiki already expected. Btw I am just giving an example.

My point is 3D space can contain 4D structure (3D space and 1D time) thats not Contradicting anything here.

Void space btw anyway. It's stated to be infinite and has separate timeflow

 

[imZer0Null]

My point is 3D space can contain 4D structure...

No, it cannot. It can contain 3-D "slices" of the 4-D structure, but it cannot contain the entire 4-D structure.

Void space btw anyway. It's stated to be infinite and has separate timeflow

Void "space" =/= physical space.

Why is the black sky considered to be only an infinite 3-D space, in my opinion it should be irrelevant as the bubble contains the black sky as well as the azure sky, regardless of whether the black sky is considered as infinite 3-D space fact remains there's still a separate physical space in a bubble capable of holding infinite separate space time continuums (assuming i'm not confusing the stated size of the azure and black sky).

Hmm... I'm kinda confused about what you're saying here.
The bubble is only considered to have infinite size because the black sky has infinite size. If the black sky was considered finite, the bubble would also be considered finite.
The separate physical space in the bubble capable of containing the space-time continuums is the azure sky, but so far it only has finite size.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

My point is 3D space can contain 4D structure (3D space and 1D time) thats not Contradicting anything here.

that would require 3D space to be far larger than the 4D structure. but because of how the Temporal dimension works and how it encompasses the entire 3D space at each slice or moment of time. a 4D entity that is 3D space + Temporal dimension wouldn't really work and is impossible to exist within a 3D space as hypervolume and would become a 4D structure.
compared to hypervolume which is 4D spatial but on a smaller scale but still makes it 4 dimensional. just that its 4th dimension is spatial and is different from temporal dimension

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

No, it cannot. It can contain 3-D "slices" of the 4-D structure, but it cannot contain the entire 4-D structure.


Void "space" =/= physical space.

Ok

Hmm... I'm kinda confused about what you're saying here.
The bubble is only considered to have infinite size because the black sky has infinite size. If the black sky was considered finite, the bubble would also be considered finite.
The seperate physical space in the bubble capable of containing the space-time continuums is the azure sky, but so far it only has finite size.

You know Black sky already contains Azure Sky of the Gods. Azure Sky of the Gods already contains countless realms of universal level.

Black Sky

A space filled with darkness and starlight that exists far above the earth, and even above the clouds and the sky. It is a place that is impossible for life on earth to enter, and the "Gates of the Divine Realm" that lead to the Azure Sky of the Gods float there.

Also Black exist above the sky.

Which the sky that is visible to mortals?
Of course blue sky.

If my interpretation is correct Black sky is either 4D space or void space. So it can contain azure sky of gods which can contain Countless realms.

Gates of the Divine Realm

The gate leading to the Azure Sky of the Gods, which exists in the Black Sky. In the past the gods descended to the earth through this gate, but it is no longer used since Anos built the Demon King Castle Delsgade on top of the gate.

Why didn't they ever referred the black sky as blue sky? If it's connected to mortal world

"Above the sky and below the depths of the earth, a black sky stretches out."

Black sky ≠ blue sky why would you assume black sky can't contain infinite 4D structure and it's nowhere stated it's 3D sky. It can be void of space.

Spoiler: Chapter 693

鬩ぎ合っていた魔力が拮抗を破り、黒き刃が直進した。根源刀は俺の掌を貫き、空に突き刺さる。
　空の秩序が切り裂かれ、＜銀界魔弾ゾネイド＞により青く染まった空に巨大な亀裂が走った。バラバラと砕け散った空の破片が落ちてくる。
　空は消えてなくなり、俺の頭上には黒穹が見えていた。
　太陽は健在で、その明かりが俺とジジを照らしている。

The magic that had been fighting each other broke the antagonism, and the black blade went straight ahead. The root blade pierced through my palm and plunged into the sky.　
　The order of the sky was torn apart, and a huge crack ran through the sky that had been dyed blue by the Silver World Magic Bullet Zonaid. Fragments of the sky fall in pieces.
　The sky vanished and disappeared, leaving a black sky above my head.
　The sun was alive and well, its light shining on me and Gigi.

Okay I get the point 3D space not being able to contain 4D structure but void of space or 4D space should be able to contain infinite 4D structure right ?

Black sky exist above blue sky of mortals.

 

[Dog3352]

Currently, the black sky is considered to be infinite 3-D space, because it is stated to be infinite and can contain 3-D stars. You are arguing that the black sky can contain an infinite number of universes, but for that to be true, the black sky would at least have to be infinite 4-D space as far as I know, because 3-D space cannot contain 4-D objects (space-time continuums).

Just a few things here, I'm still pretty much a beginner in scale and Maou gakuin, but I just want to say two things.

First of all: I guess I just meant that in size the black sky could contain infinite universes, not that it really can maybe have infinite universes in it.

Second:

"This black sky, which stretches endlessly, has no end."
"What if we fly faster than the speed at which the black sky can be stretched?"
"When you fly up to the sky, you come out from under the depths of the earth."
"In other words, the space in this world is not uniform, but distorted."

Shouldn't the black sky be 4D since it's part of the world's space? and said in the statement that "the space in this world is not uniform, but distorted." It is stated that the black sky is a distorted world space, but it is still the world space which is a 4D structure, if it is a world space doesn't that mean that the black sky is linked to the world's timeline? wouldn't that make it 4D? since it's still world space (4D structure)

Of course what I'm talking about probably doesn't make any sense, besides I'm a beginner in this kind of thing and I know very little, possibly you meant that the black sky needs to be a kind of dimension separate from the mortal world and be 4D , but I didn't really understand your statement correctly. (Even though mine possibly makes even less sense :v)

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

that would require 3D space to be far larger than the 4D structure. but because of how the Temporal dimension works and how it encompasses the entire 3D space at each slice or moment of time. a 4D entity that is 3D space + Temporal dimension wouldn't really work and is impossible to exist within a 3D space as hypervolume and would become a 4D structure.
compared to hypervolume which is 4D spatial but on a smaller scale but still makes it 4 dimensional. just that its 4th dimension is spatial and is different from temporal dimension

Got the point Thanks .

Why is the black sky considered to be only an infinite 3-D space, in my opinion it should be irrelevant as the bubble contains the black sky as well as the azure sky, regardless of whether the black sky is considered as infinite 3-D space fact remains there's still a separate physical space in a bubble capable of holding infinite separate space time continuums (assuming i'm not confusing the stated size of the azure and black sky).

All in all I agree on leaving all revisions to maou gakuin for now till we get more info but I'm pretty sure were all tired of waiting.

Black Sky and Blue Sky are different.
Mortal world has blue sky. Black sky is for Gods.

You know Black sky already contains Azure Sky of the Gods. Azure Sky of the Gods already contains countless realms of universal level.

Black Sky


Also Black exist above the sky.

Which the sky that is visible to mortals?
Of course blue sky.

If my interpretation is correct Black sky is either 4D space or void space. So it can contain azure sky of gods which can contain Countless realms.

Gates of the Divine Realm

Why didn't they ever referred the black sky as blue sky? If it's connected to mortal world

Black sky ≠ blue sky why would you assume black sky can't contain infinite 4D structure and it's nowhere stated it's 3D sky. It can be void of space.

Spoiler: Chapter 693

鬩ぎ合っていた魔力が拮抗を破り、黒き刃が直進した。根源刀は俺の掌を貫き、空に突き刺さる。
　空の秩序が切り裂かれ、＜銀界魔弾ゾネイド＞により青く染まった空に巨大な亀裂が走った。バラバラと砕け散った空の破片が落ちてくる。
　空は消えてなくなり、俺の頭上には黒穹が見えていた。
　太陽は健在で、その明かりが俺とジジを照らしている。

The magic that had been fighting each other broke the antagonism, and the black blade went straight ahead. The root blade pierced through my palm and plunged into the sky.　
　The order of the sky was torn apart, and a huge crack ran through the sky that had been dyed blue by the Silver World Magic Bullet Zonaid. Fragments of the sky fall in pieces.
　The sky vanished and disappeared, leaving a black sky above my head.
　The sun was alive and well, its light shining on me and Gigi.

Okay I get the point 3D space not being able to contain 4D structure but void of space or 4D space should be able to contain infinite 4D structure right ?

Black sky exist above blue sky of mortals.

This should clarify why Black sky can contain azure sky of gods which can contain countless realms of universal level.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Sorry english isn't my first language so please ignore grammatical mistakes

 

[Orioreeem]

I mean if black sky contains azure sky and azure sky contains countless realms, then why can't black sky also be able to contain countless realms?
If both are subspaces of black sky then black sky contains all elemenets of other two subsets.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I mean if black sky contains azure sky and azure sky contains countless realms, then why can't black sky also be able to contain countless realms?
If both are subspaces of black sky then black sky contains all elemenets of other two subsets.

Also Black Sky ≠ Blue Sky of mortals. Black sky never stated to be 3D. It already contains Countless realms of universal level in Azure sky. Pretty sure black sky can be either consider as void of space or 4D space.

Anyway it can contain infinite number realms on 4D scale.

 

[imZer0Null]

...

All of that is basically just headcanon tbh.
There are 3 different skies in a bubble. The "sky", which is part of the mortal world, which contains the clouds and "birds and dragons", then there's the "black sky" beyond the normal sky, which contains the "sun, stars, and moon" (which is also why it can't be a void), and then there's the "azure sky", sometimes translated as "blue sky", which contains the divine domains.

First of all: I guess I just meant that in size the black sky could contain infinite universes, not that it really can maybe have infinite universes in it.

As long as the black sky is 3-D space, it cannot contain any 4-D objects, i.e. 4-D space-time continuums.

Shouldn't the black sky be 4D since it's part of the world's space? and said in the statement that "the space in this world is not uniform, but distorted." It is stated that the black sky is a distorted world space, but it is still the world space which is a 4D structure, if it is a world space doesn't that mean that the black sky is linked to the world's timeline? wouldn't that make it 4D since it's still world space (4D structure)?

That simply doesn't prove that the black sky is 4-D space...

I mean if black sky contains azure sky and azure sky contains countless realms, then why can't black sky also be able to contain countless realms?
If both are subspaces of black sky then black sky contains all elemenets of other two subsets.

Except the azure sky does not occupy the same physical space as the black sky, the same way none of the divine domains occupied the same physical space as the mortal world during Anos' battles, like for example the Future World Crystal or Land of Traces. The burden of proof is on you to show that the black sky can contain 4-D space-time continuums in the same physical space.
It would probably be more accurate to say that the black sky and the azure sky are both subsets of the bubble, and that the divine domains are then subsets of the azure sky.

 

[Dog3352]

That simply doesn't prove that the black sky is 4-D space...

I was just curious, but is it really important for the black sky to be 4D? Isn't the main issue about the worlds related to the blue sky? but the only thing it can do with current information is to scale the bubble world as 2B, since there is nothing to prove that the blue sky is infinite in size.

 

[Dereck03]

After reading Null's summary and little of the discussion, I prefer to remain neutral, Null made good points about black sky being 3-D instead of 4-D, and I would also agree with his suggestion that the worlds be treated as 2-B, but I prefer to wait to see if OP has any counterarguments and if I can't decide on one then it would be nice to give the worlds a rating of 2-B, possibly 2-A although I'm not sure about the latter, it all depends on the OP's counterarguments and if anyone else wants to contribute anything in OP favour it's welcome.

 

[Fixxed]

You have provided no evidence that the azure sky also has infinite size as far as know, if that is what you meant, so this point is simply incorrect for the time being. I don't think this point is that crucial for the upgrade you are proposing tho.

After adding the azure sky the black sky is states to be no end. So the azure sky in the black sky is infinite in size too

Is just a default logic, near-infinite means finite. So if you want to get infinite, you have to add infinite. Because finite+finite=finite even finite^finite^finite until finite is finite, the only way to get infinite is add the infinite too

Currently, the black sky is considered to be infinite 3-D space, because it is stated to be infinite and can contain 3-D stars. You are arguing that the black sky can contain an infinite number of universes, but for that to be true, the black sky would at least have to be infinite 4-D space as far as I know, because 3-D space cannot contain 4-D objects (space-time continuums).
You haven't provided any evidence that even slightly implies that the black sky is infinite 4-D space, or that it can contain 4-D space-time continuums in the same physical space.

I think you is incorrect in this, like i says above. First black sky is only a mortal world not the entire bubble

Spoiler: Chapter: 395

二千年前の魔族とて、生身の体ではそうそう至れぬ場所。かつて飛空城艦ゼリドヘヴヌスにてようやく到達したその遙か空の彼方へ、魔王城は一直線に向かっていく。
雲を突き破り、青空を抜け、視界がやがて黒く染まった。
「ここは、黒穹こっきゅうと呼ばれている」
ミーシャたちは、目の前の光景に息を飲む。
さんざめく星々が、きらきらと輝いている。
その黒い空を、更に進む。
やがて、速度が緩まると、視線の先にデルゾゲードと同じ材質で出来た建築物が見えた。
「あれ、なんだ？」
「デルゾゲードの下部だ。あの場には、神々の蒼穹に通じる神界の門があってな。二千年前、＜四界牆壁ベノ・イエヴン＞でそれを塞ぐために、デルゾゲードの深層部をこの空に残しておいた」
そうすれば、＜四界牆壁ベノ・イエヴン＞はより長く保たれ、壁が消えた後も神族に対する牽制になる。
　A place that even the demon tribe of 2,000 years ago could not reach in flesh and blood. The Demon King's Castle was heading in a straight line toward the faraway sky, which had been finally reached by the flying castle ship Xeridohevnus in the past.
　Breaking through the clouds and blue sky, the view eventually turned black.
"This place is called the Black Sky Kokyu."
　Misha and the others gasped at the sight before them.
　The stars were shining brightly.
　They continued onward through the black sky.
　Eventually, as they slowed down, they saw an architectural structure made of the same material as the Delsogade.
"What is that?"
"It is the lower part of the Delzogade. There is a gate of the divine world that leads to the azure sky of the gods. Two thousand years ago, I left the depths of the delzogade in the sky in order to seal it off with the Raised Wall of the Four Realms, Benno Even."
　In this way, the <Raised Wall of the Four Realms Benno Even> would be kept longer and would serve as a check against the Gods even after the wall disappeared.

First black sky like you says is contain star in it, and not contain azure sky, but the next one is infinite in size and it is the bubble it self. And i'm not argue about the black sky litteraly but about the bubble, bubble is infinite in size and can contain universes, is mean the bubble can contain infinitely more universes in it. It is correspondence in what i says first:

Spoiler: Chapter: 485

「この大地から遠ざかるほど、黒穹は引き延ばされていき、なにもない無に近づく。それは無限に近い空、神界があるのはここ」
黒穹に『神々の蒼穹』が描き足される。
「どこまでも引き延ばされる黒穹に終わりはない」
"The farther you move away from this earth, the more the black sky is stretched out, and the closer you get to nothingness. It is here, in the nearly infinite sky, that the divine world is located."
　The <Azure Sky of The Gods> is added to the black sky.
"There is no endto the black skies that stretch on forever."

Just for little clarify. The explanation about first black sky is just stated near-infinite, yeah is not infinite, but the first explanation is only about mortal world not added the god world. After adding the azure sky the black sky is states to be no end. So the azure sky in the black sky is infinite in size too

 

[Dereck03]

Btw @imZer0Null do you think this would affect Anos 2-B range? or even in 2-A if this get accepted?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

All of that is basically just headcanon tbh.
There are 3 different skies in a bubble. The "sky", which is part of the mortal world, which contains the clouds and "birds and dragons", then there's the "black sky" beyond the normal sky, which contains the "sun, stars, and moon" (which is also why it can't be a void), and then there's the "azure sky", sometimes translated as "blue sky", which contains the divine domains.

So what do you call normal sky?
Also azure sky of gods reside in different dimension. I don't know how you can consider that as an sky. Well it may have sky still it can't be comparable to Normal sky i mean it's a different dimension itself.
Black sky is stated to be not reachable by Mortals.

Except the azure sky does not occupy the same physical space as the black sky, the same way none of the divine domains occupied the same physical space as the mortal world during Anos' battles, like for example the Future World Crystal or Land of Traces. The burden of proof is on you to show that the black sky can contain 4-D space-time continuums in the same physical space.
It would probably be more accurate to say that the black sky and the azure sky are both subsets of the bubble, and that the divine domains are then subsets of the azure sky.

Azure sky of gods is added to black sky. I don't how you take the word add. According to me it looks like azure sky of gods is subset of black sky.

"The farther away you go from this earth, the larger the black sky is stretched and the closer you get to nothingness. It is here, in that almost infinite sky, where the divine realm is located."
"Azure Sky of the Gods" is added in the black sky.
"This black sky, which stretches endlessly, has no end."

Black sky» near infinite + azure sky » black sky stretches endlessly has no end.

This is how I see it. Well if you have different POV of how add works please explain.

 

[Fixxed]

And why black sky is only 3D???

Black sky is contain the azure sky like you says, and the azure sky is can contain santuaries, and the santuaries is 4D universes (space time continuum). So why stucture that can contain 4D structure is only 3D structure???

Like you says is impossible for 3D space to contain 4D space

So why black sky is only 3D structure???

 

[imZer0Null]

Is just a default logic, near-infinite means finite. So if you want to get infinite, you have to add infinite. Because finite+finite=finite even finite^finite^finite until finite is finite, the only way to get infinite is add the infinite too

That isn't how Misha explained it at all tho.
She didn't say the black sky is finite without the azure sky and infinite with the azure sky, so this isn't a case of finite sky+infinite azure sky=infinite black sky.

I think you is incorrect in this, like i says above. First black sky is only a mortal world not the entire bubble

Spoiler: Chapter: 395

二千年前の魔族とて、生身の体ではそうそう至れぬ場所。かつて飛空城艦ゼリドヘヴヌスにてようやく到達したその遙か空の彼方へ、魔王城は一直線に向かっていく。
雲を突き破り、青空を抜け、視界がやがて黒く染まった。
「ここは、黒穹こっきゅうと呼ばれている」
ミーシャたちは、目の前の光景に息を飲む。
さんざめく星々が、きらきらと輝いている。
その黒い空を、更に進む。
やがて、速度が緩まると、視線の先にデルゾゲードと同じ材質で出来た建築物が見えた。
「あれ、なんだ？」
「デルゾゲードの下部だ。あの場には、神々の蒼穹に通じる神界の門があってな。二千年前、＜四界牆壁ベノ・イエヴン＞でそれを塞ぐために、デルゾゲードの深層部をこの空に残しておいた」
そうすれば、＜四界牆壁ベノ・イエヴン＞はより長く保たれ、壁が消えた後も神族に対する牽制になる。
　A place that even the demon tribe of 2,000 years ago could not reach in flesh and blood. The Demon King's Castle was heading in a straight line toward the faraway sky, which had been finally reached by the flying castle ship Xeridohevnus in the past.
　Breaking through the clouds and blue sky, the view eventually turned black.
"This place is called the Black Sky Kokyu."
　Misha and the others gasped at the sight before them.
　The stars were shining brightly.
　They continued onward through the black sky.
　Eventually, as they slowed down, they saw an architectural structure made of the same material as the Delsogade.
"What is that?"
"It is the lower part of the Delzogade. There is a gate of the divine world that leads to the azure sky of the gods. Two thousand years ago, I left the depths of the delzogade in the sky in order to seal it off with the Raised Wall of the Four Realms, Benno Even."
　In this way, the <Raised Wall of the Four Realms Benno Even> would be kept longer and would serve as a check against the Gods even after the wall disappeared.

First black sky like you says is contain star in it, and not contain azure sky, but the next one is infinite in size and it is the bubble it self. And i'm not argue about the black sky literally but about the bubble, bubble is infinite in size and can contain universes, is mean the bubble can contain infinitely more universes in it. It is correspondence in what i says first:

See the following:

There are 3 different skies in a bubble. The "sky", which is part of the mortal world, which contains the clouds and "birds and dragons", then there's the "black sky" beyond the normal sky, which contains the "sun, stars, and moon" (which is also why it can't be a void), and then there's the "azure sky", sometimes translated as "blue sky", which contains the divine domains.

Black Sky
A space filled with darkness and starlight that exists far above the earth, and even above the clouds and the sky. It is a place that is impossible for life on earth to enter, and the "Gates of the Divine Realm" that lead to the Azure Sky of the Gods float there.

We flew through the sky and out into the black sky.
[...]
No matter how fast you fly, if you follow the order of this world, you will only go around the black sky and come out the other side.
- WN Chapter 492

There is only one "black sky" (黒穹), and it is above the "sky" (空).

So what do you call normal sky?

Just "sky" I think. "Blue sky" (青空) can also refer to the normal sky, but the "sky" and the "azure sky" (蒼穹, sometimes translated as "blue sky") are two different things.

And why black sky is only 3D???

Black sky is contain the azure sky like you says, and the azure sky is can contain sanctuaries, and the sanctuaries is 4D universes (space time continuum). So why structure that can contain 4D structure is only 3D structure???

Like you says is impossible for 3D space to contain 4D space

So why black sky is only 3D structure???

As long as the black sky is 3-D space, it cannot contain any 4-D objects, i.e. 4-D space-time continuums.

Except the azure sky does not occupy the same physical space as the black sky, the same way none of the divine domains occupied the same physical space as the mortal world during Anos' battles, like for example the Future World Crystal or Land of Traces. The burden of proof is on you to show that the black sky can contain 4-D space-time continuums in the same physical space.
It would probably be more accurate to say that the black sky and the azure sky are both subsets of the bubble, and that the divine domains are then subsets of the azure sky.

You could try to argue that the black sky must be 4-D because the azure sky is a 4-D structure and is implied to be located in the black sky, but as mentioned before the azure sky is still a different dimension that does not occupy the same physical space as the black sky, as is evident by the fact that you cannot enter (or leave) the azure sky by simply flying to (or out of) it through the black sky, and that you can only enter (or leave) it through the gates of the divine realm as far as I know.

 

[Fixxed]

That isn't how Misha explained it at all tho.
She didn't say the black sky is finite without the azure sky and infinite with the azure sky, so this isn't a case of finite sky+infinite azure sky=infinite black sky

She litteraly stated, first black sky is only near infinite
And after ADDING THE AZURE SKY
The black sky is stated to be no end

See the following:

I think you ignore my point

Is just a default logic, near-infinite means finite. So if you want to get infinite, you have to add infinite. Because finite+finite=finite even finite^finite^finite until finite is finite, the only way to get infinite is add the infinite too

I think you is incorrect in this, like i says above. First black sky is only a mortal world not the entire bubble

Spoiler: Chapter: 395

二千年前の魔族とて、生身の体ではそうそう至れぬ場所。かつて飛空城艦ゼリドヘヴヌスにてようやく到達したその遙か空の彼方へ、魔王城は一直線に向かっていく。
雲を突き破り、青空を抜け、視界がやがて黒く染まった。
「ここは、黒穹こっきゅうと呼ばれている」
ミーシャたちは、目の前の光景に息を飲む。
さんざめく星々が、きらきらと輝いている。
その黒い空を、更に進む。
やがて、速度が緩まると、視線の先にデルゾゲードと同じ材質で出来た建築物が見えた。
「あれ、なんだ？」
「デルゾゲードの下部だ。あの場には、神々の蒼穹に通じる神界の門があってな。二千年前、＜四界牆壁ベノ・イエヴン＞でそれを塞ぐために、デルゾゲードの深層部をこの空に残しておいた」
そうすれば、＜四界牆壁ベノ・イエヴン＞はより長く保たれ、壁が消えた後も神族に対する牽制になる。
　A place that even the demon tribe of 2,000 years ago could not reach in flesh and blood. The Demon King's Castle was heading in a straight line toward the faraway sky, which had been finally reached by the flying castle ship Xeridohevnus in the past.
　Breaking through the clouds and blue sky, the view eventually turned black.
"This place is called the Black Sky Kokyu."
　Misha and the others gasped at the sight before them.
　The stars were shining brightly.
　They continued onward through the black sky.
　Eventually, as they slowed down, they saw an architectural structure made of the same material as the Delsogade.
"What is that?"
"It is the lower part of the Delzogade. There is a gate of the divine world that leads to the azure sky of the gods. Two thousand years ago, I left the depths of the delzogade in the sky in order to seal it off with the Raised Wall of the Four Realms, Benno Even."
　In this way, the <Raised Wall of the Four Realms Benno Even> would be kept longer and would serve as a check against the Gods even after the wall disappeared.

First black sky like you says is contain star in it, and not contain azure sky, but the next one is infinite in size and it is the bubble it self. And i'm not argue about the black sky litteraly but about the bubble, bubble is infinite in size and can contain universes, is mean the bubble can contain infinitely more universes in it. It is correspondence in what i says first:

Like i says the FIRST BLACK SKY is only IN THE MORTAL REALM and not contain azure sky but THE NEXT ONE is different

The <Azure Sky of The Gods> is added to the black sky.

And i think you miss that part

Looking back, there is an endless, gigantic, round bubble with a silver glow.

And that part

All santuaries is litteraly contain IN BUBBLE, and BUBBLE IS STATED HAVE INFINITE IN SIZE

you just ONLY argue about the BLACK SKY and IGNORE ABOUT THE BUBBLE it self

 

[imZer0Null]

Btw @imZer0Null do you think this would affect Anos 2-B range? or even in 2-A if this get accepted?

Hmm... If 2-B worlds get accepted, then destroying a single bubble would be countless universes range already, so destroying the Silver Sea would be countless universes*countless universes range, I think.

 

[Fixxed]

She litteraly stated, first black sky is only near infinite
And after ADDING THE AZURE SKY
The black sky is stated to be no end

I think you ignore my point

Like i says the FIRST BLACK SKY is only IN THE MORTAL REALM and not contain azure sky but THE NEXT ONE is different

And i think miss that part

And that part

All santuaries is litteraly contain IN BUBBLE, and BUBBLE IS STATED HAVE INFINITE IN SIZE

you just ONLY argue about the BLACK SKY and IGNORE ABOUT THE BUBBLE it self

And the bubble is 4D space time

 

[Fixxed]

Spoiler: Chapter: 404

「神界って、ここから更に遠いところよね？　神界の門をくぐったら、次元も違うんだし。神族ってそんなところから、地上を見られるの？」
"The Divine Realm is even further away from here, right?　Once you pass through the gate of the Divine Realm, the dimension is also different. Can the Gods see the earth from such a place?"

Almost forget, not all santuary is contain in azure sky. There are santuary outside the azure sky like memiya shinto

So if not contain by azure sky it contain in what??? The answer just the black sky

So there are no reason for 3D black sky will exist, because it can contain santuary that have 4D structure

 

[Dog3352]

If the black sky is described as "almost infinite" before adding the blue sky, and right after adding the blue sky it is said as "infinite" doesn't that mean that the blue sky is infinite?

 

[imZer0Null]

She literally stated, first black sky is only near infinite, and after ADDING THE AZURE SKY, the black sky is stated to be no end

「空の上と地底の下には、黒穹が広がっている」
　黒板に描かれたミリティアの世界の周囲に、黒い空――黒穹がつけ加えられた。
「この大地から遠ざかるほど、黒穹は引き延ばされていき、なにもない無に近づく。それは無限に近い空、神界があるのはここ」
　黒穹に『神々の蒼穹』が描き足される。
「どこまでも引き延ばされる黒穹に終わりはない」

"Above the sky and below the depths of the earth, a black sky stretches out."
What was added around the world of Militia drawn on the blackboard was a black sky--the Black Sky.
"The farther away you go from this earth, the larger the black sky is stretched and the closer you get to nothingness. It is here, an almost infinite sky, where the divine realm is located."
"Azure Sky of the Gods" is added to the black sky.
"This black sky, which stretches endlessly, has no end."

When I now look at the Japanese text again, I actually don't see anything that even says "inside" or something similar, but that's ofc when you translate the text literally, and now it mostly matches another translation done by a trusted person. That same person also said it doesn't really matter if the author used both "almost infinite" and "infinite" to describe the same thing, because the author simply uses different wordings sometimes.

Anyways, nothing in that explanation says something like "finite sky+infinite azure sky=infinite black sky" IMO.

Like i says the FIRST BLACK SKY is only IN THE MORTAL REALM and not contain azure sky but THE NEXT ONE is different

That again currently just seems like headcanon, because you haven't provided any evidence for your claim.
They cannot reach the azure sky through the black sky because the azure sky is a different dimension. It's as simple as that.

All sanctuaries is literally contain IN BUBBLE, and BUBBLE IS STATED HAVE INFINITE IN SIZE
You just ONLY argue about the BLACK SKY and IGNORE ABOUT THE BUBBLE itself

There are many layers in the Silver Sea, and there are countless bubbles in each layer, and there is an infinite sky in each bubble. There, it stretches on endlessly with no end, and it is where that world's gods are located.
Each god has its own world, and there is a deeper world, the world of the Chief God or the abyssal world.

The bubble is only considered to have infinite size because the black sky has infinite size. If the black sky was considered finite, the bubble would also be considered finite.
The separate physical space in the bubble capable of containing the space-time continuums is the azure sky, but so far it only has finite size.

And the bubble is 4D space time

Yes. 3-D space + 1-D time = 4-D space-time continuum.

Almost forget, not all sanctuary is contain in azure sky.

Okay. Proof then?

There are sanctuary outside the azure sky like memiya shinto

Proof?
That statement you provided literally says nothing of the sort, and if you wanna argue it does, then that's probably the most blatant purposeful misinterpretation of a statement I have ever seen.

However, the statement from wn chapter 404 actually refers to the azure sky of the gods (divine realm 神界, different from the divine domains 神域), and not the divine domain presented in wn chapter 399.

「神界って、ここから更に遠いところよね？　神界の門をくぐったら、次元も違うんだし。神族ってそんなところから、地上を見られるの？」

The divine realm is even further away from here, right? If you pass through the Gates of the Divine Realm, the dimension is also different. Can the Gods see the earth from such a place?

IMO this means that while the azure sky is located in the black sky, it is still a different dimension that does not occupy the same physical space as the black sky.

 

[Fixxed]

If the black sky is described as "almost infinite" before adding the blue sky, and right after adding the blue sky it is said as "infinite" doesn't that mean that the blue sky is infinite?

Yeah that what i want to says

Finite+finite=finite, even finite×finite×finite until finite=finite, even finite^finite^finite until finite is finite

The only way to get infinite is add the infinite. That are basic logic

 

[Dog3352]

Yeah that what i want to says

Finite+finite=finite, even finite×finite×finite until finite=finite, even finite^finite^finite until finite is finite

The only way to get infinite is add the infinite. That are basic logic

I accidentally deleted this comment, but ok

 

[Fixxed]

When I now look at the Japanese text again, I actually don't see anything that even says "inside" or something similar, but that's ofc when you translate the text literally, and now it mostly matches another translation done by a trusted person. That same person also said it doesn't really matter if the author used both "almost infinite" and "infinite" to describe the same thing, because the author simply uses different wordings sometimes.

I translated it use deep L, is not my own translate
And you ignore this part:

"Sky of the Gods" is added to the black sky.

What are you thinking about word added???

Anyways, nothing in that explanation says something like "finite sky+infinite azure sky=infinite black sky" IMO.

Bruh, you just ignore everything what i says
Misha explain first about the black sky in mortal world, and she desribe it to be near-infinite. And the next moment she ADDED the azure sky, and she desribe again black sky to be no end

So finite(near-infinite sky)+finite is finite
The only way to get infinite is added the infinite it self

That again currently just seems like headcanon, because you haven't provided any evidence for your claim.
They cannot reach the azure sky through the black sky because the azure sky is a different dimension. It's as simple as that.

Yeah you just ignore what i says.

I heven't provided any evidence??? What??? Bruh i give you the proof from WN it self and you just ignore that, and you says i not provided evidence for what i claim???

Yes. 3-D space + 1-D time = 4-D space-time continuum.

Yeah and bubble is desribe being endless/infinite, and bubble also contain santuaries in it. So what your point???

Proof?
That statement you provided literally says nothing of the sort, and if you wanna argue it does, then that's probably the most blatant purposeful misinterpretation of a statement I have ever seen.

However, the statement from wn chapter 404 actually refers to the azure sky of the gods (divine realm 神界, different from the divine domains 神域), and not the divine domain presented in wn chapter 399.

Yes, it is what i talking about. When do i says divine realm is refers to divine domain???

The divine realm is even further away from here, right? If you pass through the Gates of the Divine Realm, the dimension is also different. Can the Gods see the earth from such a place?

What the mean of "from here"???
Or where were they then???

The answer is they is in memiya shinto, you can read the chapter before it. Another proof that memiya shinto is not contain in azure sky???

Spoiler: Chapter: 399

『ここは、芽宮神都がきゅうしんとフォースロナルリーフ』
　幼い声で、彼女は告げる。
『神々の蒼穹へ続く神域の一つなの』
「ふむ。神界の門と神々の蒼穹には、狭間があると聞いているが、この都がそうか？」
『うん。この神都の深層にもう一つの神界の門があるの。そこが神々の蒼穹につながってるよ？』
　芽宮神都フォースロナルリーフといったか。
　神界の門をくぐったすぐ先にあるのなら、知っていそうなものだが、聞き覚えはない。

"Here, Memiya Shinto is Kyushin and Force Ronal Reef"
　In a young voice, she announces.
"It is one of the santuary leading to the azure skies of the gods."
"Hm. I have heard that there is a chasm between the gate of the Divine Realm and the Azure Sky of the Gods, is this the case with this capital?"
"Is this the case? There is another gate of the divine world in the depths of this divine city. It is connected to the azure sky of the gods, right?"
　It's called Memiya Shinto Force Ronal Reef.
　If it is just beyond the gate of the divine world, I should know it, but I don't remember hearing about it.
.
.
『……悪い神族には見えないけど、簡単に信じていいのかしら？　ここって一応、神族のテリトリーでしょ。もう少しで神界なわけだし……』
『ミリティアが世界のために創ったというのが本当なら、捨ておくことはできぬがな。他の神族に秩序の誕生を邪魔されているというのも、ありそうな話だ』
"...... doesn't look like a bad god tribe, but can we easily trust them?　This is the territory of the Gods, isn't it? We're almost in the Divine Realm. ......"
"If it is true that Militia created the world for the sake of the world, we can't leave it behind. It is also likely that the birth of order is being interfered with by other divine races."

 

[Dragopentling]

Man, just make Anos 1-B already, geezus smfh.

 

[imZer0Null]

If the black sky is described as "almost infinite" before adding the blue sky, and right after adding the blue sky it is said as "infinite" doesn't that mean that the blue sky is infinite?

Just remember it isn't actually said to be "infinite" in that explanation, it is just said to "have no end".

Bruh, you just ignore everything what i says
Misha explain first about the black sky in mortal world, and she describe it to be near-infinite. And the next moment she ADDED the azure sky, and she describe again black sky to be no end

So finite(near-infinite sky)+finite is finite
The only way to get infinite is added the infinite itself

Yeah, this "interpretation" just seems like a desperate attempt to make the explanation not seem self-contradicting. The matter of the fact is that the explanation likely IS self-contradicting, but only one statement describes a sky as almost infinite, while 2+ other statements describe the black sky as "having no end" and being "infinite" (Author explanation). I see no problem with just taking the explanation that has been used the most, i.e. the black sky is infinite.
You have still not provided ANY actual evidence of the azure sky being infinite, and have instead used some unnecessary mental gymnastics explanation. If you don't provide an actual statement of the azure sky being infinite, a statement similar to those that were needed for the black sky to be considered infinite, then it simply isn't infinite.
I won't be arguing this point any further.

The answer is they is in memiya shinto, you can read the chapter before it. Another proof that memiya shinto is not contain in azure sky???

In the previous chapter they already stepped through the gates of the divine realm, entered a different dimension with endless stone paving floating in a "black space" (黒い空, right after that statement said to refer to (不思議) 空間, not 黒穹), and closed the gates of the divine realm from inside this other dimension. Then they later entered that divine domain.
So what?
They were already in a different dimension, similar to the Future World Crystal and Land of Traces, and we know this because there definitely isn't endless stone paving located inside Delsgade, so they were already not occupying the same physical space as Delsgade and the black sky.
I also won't be arguing this point any further if you're gonna repeat arguments.

 

[Fixxed]

Just remember it isn't actually said to be "infinite" in that explanation, it is just said to "have no end".

Just read this, the origin word of infinite is not finished/finite. "End" mean finish, so no end mean no finish mean infinite

Yeah, this "interpretation" just seems like a desperate attempt to make the explanation not seem self-contradicting. The matter of the fact is that the explanation likely IS self-contradicting, but only one statement describes a sky as almost infinite, while 2+ other statements describe the black sky as "having no end" and being "infinite" (Author explanation). I see no problem with just taking the explanation that has been used the most, i.e. the black sky is infinite.
You have still not provided ANY actual evidence of the azure sky being infinite, and have instead used some unnecessary mental gymnastics explanation. If you don't provide an actual statement of the azure sky being infinite, a statement similar to those that were needed for the black sky to be considered infinite, then it simply isn't infinite.
I won't be arguing this point any further.

I just wanna says you even dont debunk my argument
Finite+finite=finite, finite+infinite=infinite
I provide the evidence and make argument from it and you cant debunk it
You just repeat the same thing "provided any actual evidance"

In the previous chapter they already stepped through the gates of the divine realm, entered a different dimension with endless stone paving floating in a "black space" (黒い空, right after that statement said to refer to (不思議) 空間, not 黒穹), and closed the gates of the divine realm from inside this other dimension. Then they later entered that divine domain.
So what?
They were already in a different dimension, similar to the Future World Crystal and Land of Traces, and we know this because there definitely isn't endless stone paving located inside Delsgade, so they were already not occupying the same physical space as Delsgade and the black sky.
I also won't be arguing this point any further if you're gonna repeat arguments.

No, no, they just enter memiya shinto not the azure sky. Yes, memiya shinto is god world, but not in azure sky

I dont see any argument from you about this. You just ignore what i give

Spoiler: Chapter: 399

『ここは、芽宮神都がきゅうしんとフォースロナルリーフ』
　幼い声で、彼女は告げる。
『神々の蒼穹へ続く神域の一つなの』
「ふむ。神界の門と神々の蒼穹には、狭間があると聞いているが、この都がそうか？」
『うん。この神都の深層にもう一つの神界の門があるの。そこが神々の蒼穹につながってるよ？』
　芽宮神都フォースロナルリーフといったか。
　神界の門をくぐったすぐ先にあるのなら、知っていそうなものだが、聞き覚えはない。

"Here, Memiya Shinto is Kyushin and Force Ronal Reef"
　In a young voice, she announces.
"It is one of the santuary leading to the azure skies of the gods."
"Hm. I have heard that there is a chasm between the gate of the Divine Realm and the Azure Sky of the Gods, is this the case with this capital?"
"Is this the case? There is another gate of the divine world in the depths of this divine city. It is connected to the azure sky of the gods, right?"
　It's called Memiya Shinto Force Ronal Reef.
　If it is just beyond the gate of the divine world, I should know it, but I don't remember hearing about it.
.
.
『……悪い神族には見えないけど、簡単に信じていいのかしら？　ここって一応、神族のテリトリーでしょ。もう少しで神界なわけだし……』
『ミリティアが世界のために創ったというのが本当なら、捨ておくことはできぬがな。他の神族に秩序の誕生を邪魔されているというのも、ありそうな話だ』
"...... doesn't look like a bad god tribe, but can we easily trust them?　This is the territory of the Gods, isn't it? We're almost in the Divine Realm. ......"
"If it is true that Militia created the world for the sake of the world, we can't leave it behind. It is also likely that the birth of order is being interfered with by other divine races."

Is litteraly stated in there if the azure sky (divene realm) is different place from memiya shinto. If you says every santuaries is contain in azure sky that will contradicted in chapter 399

You just repeat your argument, even though the argument is contradicted with the proof

 

[Fixxed]

Yeah and bubble is desribe being endless/infinite, and bubble also contain santuaries in it. So what your point???

And what about this???

 

[Dog3352]

Man, just make Anos 1-B already, geezus smfh.

It doesn't matter how many times we do it, and of course the people won't accept it.

Evidence has already been sent that layers are inaccessible to beings of lower layers, evidence that beings of lower layers should not even affect a boat in a higher layers, and there is evidence that the worlds cannot perceive the existence of beings of layers higher, and even proofs that the bubble world needs to be in a certain layer to perceive the worlds of this layer and the previous ones, and even the speech that says that strength, speed, resistance and magic power are in another dimension, but even so the people don't accept at all that upper layers are higher dimensions, even if that shit fits perfectly

 

[imZer0Null]

So this debate, like every debate I have had with Fixxed thus far, will go nowhere.

@Antvasima
I would greatly appreciate it if you could tag some staff members again, and have them read the OP (if they want to) and then read the discussion from this post onwards.

 

[Jibz]

interesting

 

[Dereck03]

「銀水学院パブロヘタラは、古く巨大な、そして悪しき階層制度の象徴 だ。奴らは、泡沫世界を一方的に搾取し続けている」
搾取というのは穏やかではないが､ 泡沫世界と言われてもわからぬ な。
「･･････泡沫世界とは、未進化の世界のことだ。 卿の故郷では、世界主神 が存在するだろう。 進化した世界では主神により世界の外が知覚され､ 銀水聖海を渡る術がある」
俺の反応を見て、 二律僭主がそう説明を足す。
「だが､泡沫世界では適合者が生まれず、 世界は進化せず、 世界主神が 誕生しない。ゆえに、 泡沫の住人は、 世界の外があることに気がつきよ うがないのだ」
なるほど。
ミリティアの世界は、 少々事情が違うな。
「銀水聖海に出たばかりの卿には仕組みが複雑かもしれないが、 パブロ ヘタラは泡沫世界から重要な魔力を奪っている」
それは想像に難くない。
つい最近まで、ミリティアの世界でも奪われていたものがあった。
「火露か?」
「さすがに察しがいい。 この銀水聖海では浅層の住人は、より深層の住人にすべてを奪われる。 命でさえ、いとも容易く。 泡沫世界の住人はそ れに気がつくことさえできない。 彼らにとって、 世界の外など存在せず、それが秩序であるかのように見えるからだ」
火露は世界を維持するために消費したとエクエスは言っていた。
奴も、知らなかったのやもしれぬな。 奪っていたと信じ、 その実奪われていたことを。
"The Silverwater Institute Pablo Hetalla is the symbol of an old, huge, and evil hierarchical system. They continue to unilaterally exploit the bubble world."
Exploitation is not a gentle word, but I don't understand what you mean when you say "Bubbles World".
"...... A bubble world is an unevolved world. In your homeland, there will be a World Lord God. In the evolved world, the Lord God would be able to perceive the outside of the world and have the means to cross the Silver Water Sacred Sea."
Seeing my reaction, the Second Presumption added this explanation.
"But in the bubble world, no conformists are born, the world does not evolve, and the world god is not born. Therefore, the inhabitants of the bubble world are unaware that there is a world outside of it."
I see.
The world of Militia is a little different.
"The mechanics may be complicated for a Sir who is new to the Silver Water Holy Sea, but Pablo Hetala is taking significant magical power from the bubble world."
It is not hard to imagine.
Until recently, the world of Militia was also deprived of something.
"Fire dew?"
"Very good indeed. In the Silver Water Holy Sea, the inhabitants of the lower layers are deprived of everything by the inhabitants of the deeper layers. Even life is easy. Residents of the bubble world cannot even notice it. For them, there is no such thing as outside the world, and it seems to be order."
Eques said that the fire dew was consumed to sustain the world.
He may not have known it either. He believed he was robbing them, but in fact he was being robbed.

Chapter 497


一呼吸の間に、四連突き。次元を越えたディルフィンシュテインが、発射直後の青き魔弾を貫いた。
だが、爆発は起こらない。
＜魔深流失波濤砲ベレニツィア・ノイン＞に似せたフェイクの魔弾だ。
ビリジアは銃砲を捨て、魔槍の穂先をわしづかみにした。どれだけ次元を超えようと、その穂先とイージェスの手にしている魔槍はつながっている。そのまま、力任せに、奴はディルフィンシュテインを押さえつける。
During one breath, quadruple thrust. Dill Finstein, who transcends dimensions, pierces the blue magic bullet immediately after launch.
However, the explosion does not occur.
It is a fake magic bullet that resembles <Magic Deep Flow Lost Wave Cannon Berenizia Noin>.
Villisia dropped the weapon and grabbed the tip of the magic spear. No matter how far beyond the dimension, the tip of the tip and the magic spear in Eges' hands are connected. As it is, he holds Dilfin Stein forcibly.

Chapter 690

Declaration of transcendence (even though everyone already knows that the concept of transcendence already exists in maou gakuin)



「あ、ありえんっ！　そんなことはっ！　浅層世界の住人如き、船体に傷一つつけることができんはずだぞっ！！」"
"Oh, that's right! That's right! Like the inhabitants of the shallow world, you shouldn't be able to hurt the hull!"


Declaring that a bottom layer character should not be able to injure the hull.



"In this little world. Which exists deeper than your little world, the power of everything is in another dimension. Strength, speed, endurance, magic power, everything."

Declaration that things like strength, speed, endurance, magic power (and all the rest) are in another dimension.

It is also stated that Anos' world-destroying magic would not destroy even a ship in the second tier, worlds are at least 2B considering currently

there are several other proofs, but they are simply ignored, or they try to refute it with nonsense simply by stating that it is 'more resistant'.

Okay... What exactly are you trying to bring to a completely focused thread on the worlds rating???? Stop the derail.

 

[Dog3352]

Okay... What exactly are you trying to bring to a completely focused thread on the worlds rating???? Stop the derail.

I was going to explain the evidence that literally 90% of people ignore, and the 10% who really look are the ones who write, in a nutshell, there are countless proofs of something that can't be refuted, but still no one takes it seriously.

In a nutshell, this is really giving me a headache.

 

[Dereck03]

I was going to explain the evidence that literally 90% of people ignore, and the 10% who really look are the ones who write, in a nutshell, there are countless proofs of something that can't be refuted, but still no one takes it seriously.

In a nutshell, this is really giving me a headache.

I don't even care, how many times do I have to tell to not touch those topics in threads that are not related to it at all, it is a huge derailment since we are dealing with how the universes would be treated and you come with a proposal (In fact, it is not even a proposal, but a passing anger) completely unrelated to what is being discussed.

 

[Fixxed]

So this debate, like every debate I have had with Fixxed thus far, will go nowhere.

@Antvasima
I would greatly appreciate it if you could tag some staff members again, and have them read the OP (if they want to) and then read the discussion from this post onwards.

You must comment in his page, only staff can tag staff

 

[Dog3352]

I don't even care, how many times do I have to tell to not touch those topics in threads that are not related to it at all, it is a huge derailment since we are dealing with how the universes would be treated and you come with a proposal (In fact, it is not even a proposal, but a passing anger) completely unrelated to what is being discussed.

I'm getting a headache from this, and the worst is that I'm not even kidding, thanks to the fact that I don't have my glasses on I always wake up and a few minutes later I get a headache.

Well, anyway, I'm going to delete this shit soon.

By the way, I agree with the UP of the worlds being 2B, it seems the most accepted thing around here.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Wait the reason why the OP is claiming the azure sky is a 4D space is because it is a space-time continuum?