Upgrade every bubble/world from Maou Gakuin to tier 2A

[Tatsumi504]

@imZer0Null Is your argument against 2-A bubble because the azure sky isn't stated to be infinite?

 

[Tatsumi504]

Wait the reason why the OP is claiming the azure sky is a 4D space is because it is a space-time continuum?

No, azure sky is a 4-D structure that contains space time continuums. Null's argument against 2-A bubble and 2-B instead is that the azure sky isn't stated to be infinite

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That isn't how Misha explained it at all tho.
She didn't say the black sky is finite without the azure sky and infinite with the azure sky, so this isn't a case of finite sky+infinite azure sky=infinite black sky.



See the following:







There is only one "black sky" (黒穹), and it is above the "sky" (空).


Just "sky" I think. "Blue sky" (青空) can also refer to the normal sky, but the "sky" and the "azure sky" (蒼穹, sometimes translated as "blue sky") are two different things.

Spoiler: Chapter: 395

二千年前の魔族とて、生身の体ではそうそう至れぬ場所。かつて飛空城艦ゼリドヘヴヌスにてようやく到達したその遙か空の彼方へ、魔王城は一直線に向かっていく。
雲を突き破り、青空を抜け、視界がやがて黒く染まった。
「ここは、黒穹こっきゅうと呼ばれている」
ミーシャたちは、目の前の光景に息を飲む。
さんざめく星々が、きらきらと輝いている。
その黒い空を、更に進む。
やがて、速度が緩まると、視線の先にデルゾゲードと同じ材質で出来た建築物が見えた。
「あれ、なんだ？」
「デルゾゲードの下部だ。あの場には、神々の蒼穹に通じる神界の門があってな。二千年前、＜四界牆壁ベノ・イエヴン＞でそれを塞ぐために、デルゾゲードの深層部をこの空に残しておいた」
そうすれば、＜四界牆壁ベノ・イエヴン＞はより長く保たれ、壁が消えた後も神族に対する牽制になる。
　A place that even the demon tribe of 2,000 years ago could not reach in flesh and blood. The Demon King's Castle was heading in a straight line toward the faraway sky, which had been finally reached by the flying castle ship Xeridohevnus in the past.
　Breaking through the clouds and blue sky, the view eventually turned black.
"This place is called the Black Sky Kokyu."
　Misha and the others gasped at the sight before them.
　The stars were shining brightly.
　They continued onward through the black sky.
　Eventually, as they slowed down, they saw an architectural structure made of the same material as the Delsogade.
"What is that?"
"It is the lower part of the Delzogade. There is a gate of the divine world that leads to the azure sky of the gods. Two thousand years ago, I left the depths of the delzogade in the sky in order to seal it off with the Raised Wall of the Four Realms, Benno Even."
　In this way, the <Raised Wall of the Four Realms Benno Even> would be kept longer and would serve as a check against the Gods even after the wall disappeared.

Blue sky already exist before black sky read the line above.

" Breaking through the clouds and blue sky, the view eventually turned black.,"

Spoiler: Chapter 693

鬩ぎ合っていた魔力が拮抗を破り、黒き刃が直進した。根源刀は俺の掌を貫き、空に突き刺さる。
　空の秩序が切り裂かれ、＜銀界魔弾ゾネイド＞により青く染まった空に巨大な亀裂が走った。バラバラと砕け散った空の破片が落ちてくる。
　空は消えてなくなり、俺の頭上には黒穹が見えていた。
　太陽は健在で、その明かりが俺とジジを照らしている。

The magic that had been fighting each other broke the antagonism, and the black blade went straight ahead. The root blade pierced through my palm and plunged into the sky.　
　The order of the sky was torn apart, and a huge crack ran through the sky that had been dyed blue by the Silver World Magic Bullet Zonaid. Fragments of the sky fall in pieces.
　The sky vanished and disappeared, leaving a black sky above my head.
　The sun was alive and well, its light shining on me and Gigi.

Here it's specifically states the sky disappears and then black sky started to visible.

I believe from this we can see blue sky and black are different. Unless you explain how can sky disappears and black sky visible.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Wait the reason why the OP is claiming the azure sky is a 4D space is because it is a space-time continuum?

Azure sky contains countless realms of universal level.
Azure sky exist inside black sky which is infinite.
The whole point is Black sky has space enough to contain infinite number of universes.

 

[Fixxed]

Wait the reason why the OP is claiming the azure sky is a 4D space is because it is a space-time continuum?

Azure sky can contain santuaries in it, and santuaries are 4D structure

So why azure sky is not 4D structure???

And my argument is not about azure sky, but about the whole bubble

 

[Orioreeem]

Bubble can't be infinite 3D space if it contains 4D structures. It has to be infinite 4D

 

[Tatsumi504]

Bubble can't be infinite 3D space if it contains 4D structures. It has to be infinite 4D

Null isn't saying the bubble is only infinite 3-D. He's saying the structure capable of holding space time continuums isn't stated to be infinite in size

 

[PrinceofPein]

Azure sky can contain santuaries in it, and santuaries are 4D structure

So why azure sky is not 4D structure???

And my argument is not about azure sky, but about the whole bubble

What I was asking is what makes santuaries 4D?

 

[Orioreeem]

It's all in the op

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Spoiler: Chapter 492

Lay took a breath out of the spectacular sight.
Even Shin couldn't hide his astonishment, as his gaze was stern.
We were in a sea that flowed out silvery light.
Looking back, I could see an endlessly huge, round bubble of silver light.
Looking with my Magic Eyes, I can certainly see the magical power of the creator god Militia.
This silver bubble was the world we were in.

Spoiler: Chapter 485

"I might have called it "outside this world", but at least no one has ever seen anything outside this world. Even what we call "other dimensions" and "different worlds or realms" must exist inside this world after all."

Everything, every world and dimensions should exist Inside the bubble which is infinite size. Every dimension mean azure sky also included. Bubble should be be able to contain infinite realms of universal level.

 

[Tatsumi504]

What I was asking is what makes santuaries 4D?

Proof of some sanctuaries being 4-D, statements that all sanctuaries are microcosms of the bubble

 

[PrinceofPein]

Proof of some sanctuaries being 4-D, statements that all sanctuaries are microcosms of the bubble

That is not proof of a 4D space

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That is not proof of a 4D space

What? Bro there are literally stated to have same size of the universe. How it's not enough proof?. Can you tell me why they aren't Universal sized ?

 

[PrinceofPein]

What? Bro there are literally stated to have same size of the universe. How it's not enough proof?. Can you tell me why they aren't Universal sized ?

For the last time read to understand not read to reply.

I said it does not make it a 4D space not it is not universal in size

I’ve not made any claim.

Anyway I will wait for the OP

 

[Orioreeem]

How about you elaborate so that people can debate you?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

For the last time read to understand not read to reply.

I said it does not make it a 4D space not it is not universal in size

It already contains countless realms of universal level. How that can't be 4D space.

 

[PrinceofPein]

It already contains countless realms of universal level. How that can't be 4D space.

The sanctuary contains countless universe sized realm?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The sanctuary contains countless universe sized realm?

I think you misunderstood something

Bubble=infinite size
Each Bubble has azure sky of gods which contains countless realms of universal level.

Our argument logically bubble should be large enough to contain infinite number of universes.

Let's a Sanctuaries are set A. Azure sky of gods is set B and bubbles is set C.

A is subset of B and B is Subset of C so A should be subset of C.

A is infinite size.

 

[Tatsumi504]

The sanctuary contains countless universe sized realm?

Sanctuaries themselves are the universe sized spaces (space time continuums) and they're countless number of them, basically one for each god. The azure sky is where all sanctuaries are located making it a 4-D space

 

[PrinceofPein]

I think you misunderstood something

Bubble=infinite size
Each Bubble has azure sky of gods which contains countless realms of universal level.

Our argument logically bubble should be large enough to contain infinite number of universes.

Let's a Sanctuaries are set B. Azure sky of gods is set B and bubbles is set C.

A is subset of B and B is Subset of C so A should be subset of C.

A is infinite size.

I did not misunderstand anything here are my messages

Wait the reason why the OP is claiming the azure sky is a 4D space is because it is a space-time continuum?

You can start from there

 

[imZer0Null]

@imZer0Null Is your argument against 2-A bubble because the azure sky isn't stated to be infinite?

Yes, basically.
Also because no one has provided actual evidence that the black sky can contain 4-D space-time continuums in the same physical space.

Blue sky already exist before black sky read the line above.

" Breaking through the clouds and blue sky, the view eventually turned black."


Here it's specifically states the sky disappears and then black sky started to visible.

I believe from this we can see blue sky and black are different. Unless you explain how can sky disappears and black sky visible.

I already addressed this here and here.
Check the actual raw Japanese text to see how you are simply completely misinterpreting the statements.

Null isn't saying the bubble is only infinite 3-D. He's saying the structure capable of holding space time continuums isn't stated to be infinite in size.

Yes, basically.
There is a structure capable of containing the 4-D space-time continuums, that being the azure sky, but no one has provided actual evidence that it has infinite size to contain infinite divine domains.

What I was asking is what makes santuaries 4D?

I'm gonna assume you mean 4-D space-time continuums.
In that case, read here.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I'm gonna assume you mean 4-D space-time continuums.
In that case, read here.

I don’t mean space-time continuum
All space-time continuums are 4D by effect I don’t know what you mean by “4D space time continuum”
The question is what makes the sanctuary a 4D space, that’s a different question
It means it has one extra dimension(direction).

 

[Fixxed]

What I was asking is what makes santuaries 4D?

Just read the proposal

Santuaries is stated to be microcosm of world, and santuaries like future world and land of traces have it own time and space or 4D structure

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I don’t mean space-time continuum
All space-time continuums are 4D by effect I don’t know what you mean by “4D space time continuum”
The question is what makes the sanctuary a 4D space, that’s a different question
It means it has one extra dimension(direction).

Sanctuaries ain't 4D space they are 4D structure. Normal universes. No one is arguing for 4D space for sanctuaries.

 

[Orioreeem]

People aren't arguing 4D via 4 dimensions of space but via 3 dimensions of space + 1 of time

 

[Fixxed]

I don’t mean space-time continuum
All space-time continuums are 4D by effect I don’t know what you mean by “4D space time continuum”
The question is what makes the sanctuary a 4D space, that’s a different question
It means it has one extra dimension(direction).

I never says santuary is 4D space. I says santuary is 4D structure

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Yes, basically.
Also because no one has provided actual evidence that the black sky can contain 4-D space-time continuums in the same physical space.


I already addressed this here and here.
Check the actual raw Japanese text to see how you are simply completely misinterpreting the statements.

Let's a Sanctuaries are set A. Azure sky of gods is set B and bubbles is set C.

A is subset of B and B is Subset of C so A should be subset of C.

A is infinite size.
Yes, basically.
There is a structure capable of containing the 4-D space-time continuums, that being the azure sky, but no one has provided actual evidence that it has infinite size to contain infinite divine domains.


I'm gonna assume you mean 4-D space-time continuums.
In that case, read here.

Let's say Sanctuaries are set A. Azure sky of gods is set B and bubbles is set C.

A is subset of B and B is Subset of C so A should be subset of C.

C is infinite size.

 

[PrinceofPein]

I never says santuary is 4D space. I says santuary is 4D structure

So you are saying azure sky contains each sanctuary space-time continuum in its entirety?
I mean it contains it from the past, presto and the future, all at once?

 

[imZer0Null]

All space-time continuums are 4D by effect I don’t know what you mean by “4D space time continuum”.

No... A space-time continuum can also be 5-D (4-D space + 1-D time), or really any number of dimensions higher than one dimension, as a space-time continuum is just a manifold composed of both spatial and temporal dimensions.

The question is what makes the sanctuary a 4D space, that’s a different question.

I don't think anyone was claiming that divine domains (sanctuaries) are 4-D space, so maybe you should just actually read people's arguments.

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Sanctuary= space time continuum(4D)
3D space can’t contain the sanctuaries which is why the bubble is 4D space in order to contain them.

 

[Fixxed]

So you are saying azure sky contains each sanctuary space-time continuum in its entirety?
I mean it contains it from the past, presto and the future, all at once?

Each santuaries have it own time dimension

 

[PrinceofPein]

No... A space-time continuum can also be 5-D (4-D space + 1-D time), or really any number of dimensions higher than one dimension, as a space-time continuum is just a manifold composed of both spatial and temporal dimensions.

I said by default, meaning when someone says spacetime continuum unless stated otherwise it is assumed to be 4D

I don't think anyone was claiming that divine domains (sanctuaries) are 4-D space, so maybe you should just actually read people's arguments.

I did my question was why is azure sky a 4D space and here was the reply

Azure sky can contain santuaries in it, and santuaries are 4D structure

Which brought me to subsequent questions

Each santuaries have it own time dimension

Nice, it didn’t Answer my question

So you are saying azure sky contains each sanctuary space-time continuum in its entirety?
I mean it contains it from the past, present and the future, all at once?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I said by default, meaning when someone says spacetime continuum unless stated otherwise it is assumed to be 4D

I did my question was why is azure sky a 4D space and here was the reply

Which brought me to subsequent questions

Nice, it didn’t Answer my question

1. Bubble world is infinite size.
2. It contains Azure sky of gods.
3. Azure sky of gods contains countless realms/Sanctuaries
4. Each sanctuary is macrocosom of the world and has size of the universe. Also contains seperate space time
5. The whole argument is Bubble world which contains Azure sky of gods which contains countless realms of universal level should be considered as 2A. As Bubble is infinite size.
6. You know infinite space can contain infinite items whatever inside of it. Well you are already a scaler I don have to tell you that.

Bubble world = {Infinite size { Azure sky of gods {Countless Sanctuaries { sanctuary=space time continuum}}}}

I hope this explains somewhat.

 

[Fixxed]

Nice, it didn’t Answer my question

If you have own time dimension that mean the every point time is include in it

 

[PrinceofPein]

1. Bubble world is infinite size.
2. It contains Azure sky of gods.
3. Azure sky of gods contains countless realms/Sanctuaries
4. Each sanctuary is macrocosom of the world and has size of the universe. Also contains seperate space time
5. The whole argument is Bubble world which contains Azure sky of gods which contains countless realms of universal level should be considered as 2A. As Bubble is infinite size.
6. You know infinite space can contain infinite items whatever inside of it. Well you are already a scaler I don have to tell you that.

Bubble world = {Infinite size { Azure sky of gods {Countless Sanctuaries { sanctuary=space time continuum}}}}

I hope this explains somewhat.

I already what the claim is and I’m asking questions You can also feel free to answer the questions

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Sanctuary= space time continuum(4D)
3D space can’t contain the sanctuaries which is why the bubble is 4D space in order to contain them.

The sanctuary are subset of the azure sky. A 3D space can’t contain 4D structure (3D + 1 time) no matter how infinite it was. It had to be in similar level of dimension which is why Azure sky had to be 4D space to contain 4D structure.

 

[PrinceofPein]

If you have own time dimension that mean the every point time is include in it

No, where are you seeing that?

 

[PrinceofPein]

The sanctuary are subset of the azure sky. A 3D space can’t contain 4D structure (3D + 1 time) no matter how infinite it was. It had to be in similar level of dimension which is why Azure sky had to be 4D space to contain 4D structure.

This is wrong a 4D structure can contain another 4D structure

 

[NIK_FARIS]

Also, all those sanctuary are causally isolated

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This is wrong a 4D structure can contain another 4D structure

Ok .

Anyway however you consider it or not the fact gonna still remain same because all exist Inside the bubble which js infinite size.