Undertale town level downgrades

[FloweryAlex]

I also kinda feel that just scaling every single enemy, including peeps like froggit, to the oven thing shouldn't be done. Though, to be honest, I don't really like the idea of tier fluctuating as much for frisk as it does based on determination alone, period.

With stats being canonically used, Frisk's stats don't change much at all through will alone (They do have some ACTions that stat amps, but that's another deal). They keep up with monsters stat wise through "armor" and "weapons" increasing their stats, and I feel that them not getting one-shot without equipment could simply be game mechanics much like the 1 HP damage thing. Yeah, it did against Asriel to an extent, but Frisk also became able to regenerate from soul destruction and will healing items into existence, so I'm not sure that's applicable normally.

Undyne not being damaged could simply be them holding back, too.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Yes, though I'm honestly unsure how to calc that.

If we treated it like an explosion, then it would be...

5.7682580645^3*((27136*0.344738+8649)^(1/2)/13568-93/13568)^2 = 0.00176782285 Tons of TNT (Wall level+)

I measure the inside of Undyne's house to be 11.536516129 m and used that as the diameter.

Though I'm not sure if I can call that an explosion.

 

[Andytrenom]

Undyne's statement suggests the fluctuation thing more. Remember she was under the impression that Frisk was giving it their all with the strike, so the "you were unable to muster up the intent to hurt me" would not make sense if it was about Frisk holding back.

Tho this is probably related to the whole Monster being weak to killing intent thing more than Frisk's actual strength fluctuating.

 

[FloweryAlex]

She directly compares him to Asgore after that tough, no?

He kinda lacks determination as a whole.It might be the "weak to emotion" thing monsters have, but have Frisk's stats ever actually changed (or been implied to) based on DT instead of LV?

 

[Read_this_post]

Wouldnt the heat from the oven (9000 farenheit) expanding into a fire ball still be small building level?

 

[FloweryAlex]

Celsius. It's 9000 Celsius.

And you'd need to take into acount that the heat is being realeased from a surface that is ~20 cm wide, that they were a half a meter away from it, and the surface area too.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I thought we weren't using that temperature, since that almost the same temperature as the surface of the sun.

If we are using it, I don't know how to calc that.

 

[Andytrenom]

Yeah but that doesn't mean she thought "he" was holding back,...since we know for a fact that she didn't

"Even attacking at full force...you just can't muster any intent to hurt me, huh"

She must have had a different explanation for the limited damage than Frisk intentionally pulling his punch, that's for sure.

 

[FloweryAlex]

I feel the idea of frisk trying but failing to put all their force behind it could make sense, but it still doesn't aply to DT if Asgore is like that too.

 

[Andytrenom]

She is probably comparing Frisk to Asgore because they both have a gentle personality not because their attacks work under the same mechanics.

 

[TheRustyOne]

It's not stated to be anything, he just says degrees.

Also look at this thread. This seems to be where 8-C comes from.

 

[Read_this_post]

@FloweryAlex Celcius is never mentioned. Due to undertale being american, it is more reasonable to assume farenheit than celcius

 

[DMB_1]

If it's 9000 degrees, them being Celsius or Fareinehgt wouldn't change much, really.

 

[Jaften]

If it's 9000 degrees, them being Celsius or Fareinehgt wouldn't change much, really.

It would be a difference of about 55%. 9000 Celsius versus 4982 Celsius.

 

[Andytrenom]

It's not stated to be anything, he just says degrees.

Also look at this thread. This seems to be where 8-C comes from.

Well, as someone already pointed out Undyne fainted in hotland because of her Armor and doesn't suffer the same problem normally. So Hotland cannot really be scaled to the oven.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Wouldn't that still scale to Undyne/Frisk, and anyone comparable?

 

[Andytrenom]

Considering that this is their feat in the first place, yes.

 

[Read_this_post]

Ok. Is there a way to calc the steel/iron wall splitting open?

Also 4982.222 celcius (9000 degrees farenheit) is 9461740.46 joules going by this. Does this make the feat this many joules?

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

^ That is the amount of energy required to raise the temperature by 9000 F. Even if we could put a number to that feat, it would literally just scale to the oven

 

[Read_this_post]

Oh. So what would the fire ball emitted by the oven be? Since it is likely a fire ball being expanded from the oven rather than an actual explosion as mentioned earlier.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

It would be temperature change x 919 x weight of the fireball. What is the feat in question?

 

[Read_this_post]

This feat. Said oven has been stated to be able to reach temperatures of 9000 degrees (farenheit). Or 4982.222 degrees celcius.

 

[Jaften]

It would be temperature change x 919 x weight of the fireball. What is the feat in question?

Oven gets to 9000 degrees (Fahrenheit is assumed), overloads (I want to say "explodes" but it isn't exactly a standard explosion), and instantly sets an entire house on fire. It doesn't incinerate the house or anything, though, just instantly ignites wood stuff all around the house.

Here's the feat in question.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Since the entire house was set on fire, the size of Undyne's house could probably be used for the size of the fireball, and mass could be calculated from that.

It's very similar to Honey Lemo's feat, and it seems pretty simple. I can make the calculation this afternoon, but I am kinda busy at the moment, sorry

 

[Jaften]

That's fine. The feat seems to be somewhere between Wall level and low Small Building level at any rate.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

You'd be surprised. A fireball that size could easily make it to 8-C, maybe higher.

 

[Jaften]

That would be nice.

 

[Read_this_post]

Undynes house must be hella durable 0_0. That would actually explain why it didnt ever burn down. Take your time.

Also before making drastic changes it is probably best to wait for azathoth to leave a comment. Would have gone through but saikou doesnt wanna be here.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Ok, why is the lightning being rejected?

Isn't the lighting formed in volcanos' clouds the same as regular storm lightning?

 

[Read_this_post]

Ok, why is the lightning being rejected?
Isn't the lighting formed in volcanos' clouds the same as regular storm lightning?

Vulkin isnt a real volcano. Therefore there is no reason to treat them as real lightning clouds. Everything in the fight goes with the theme of volcanos. But that doesnt mean they share the exact same properties as explained in the op

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

I definitely think the OP has made a lot of sense with his points so far. I support this, wherever it ends up going.

 

[Jaften]

snip

This. Vulkin's attack fails to pass VSBW's requirements for real lightning. The only things it has going for it are that there is a "cloud" (which is cartoony and not shown in reliable scale—if the bullet board scale is to be taken as factual, the "cloud" would be about the size of an infant) and "lightning" (which is literally a magical attack in the canon of the game, and just acts like every other standard magical projectile in the game). Additionally, Mettaton's tech-based electrical attacks during the quiz are much much faster (basically instantaneous), despite also failing requirements for lightning classification, so they'd be much slower than lightning.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I never liked the "it doesn't look real, so it isn't real" logic, but I want 8-C Undertale just to see chaos ensue when people start spaming Undertale Vs JoJo and Undertale Vs Batman.

 

[Jaften]

I never liked the "it doesn't look real, so it isn't real" logic, but I want 8-C Undertale just to see chaos ensue when people start spaming Undertale Vs JoJo and Undertale Vs Batman.

Like it or not, burden of proof is still a thing. We have standards for lightning-based attacks here, and Vulkin appears to fail them.

 

[Read_this_post]

Its not just the fact that it doesnt look real. It is the cloud itself just scatters lightning and is not directly cloud to ground. It doesnt function like real lightning in the slightest, is an obvious gag and is contraticted. Noteably in that mettaton scenario where frisk cant dodge electrical attacks even when having a fairly decent amount of determination.

 

[Jaften]

I wouldn't call it a gag. I'd call it a "themed magical attack".

Like virtually all of the other magical attacks in the game.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Like it or not, burden of proof is still a thing. We have standards for lightning-based attacks here, and Vulkin appears to fail them.

That has really nothing to do with what I said, since at literally no point I made any argument towards keeping Undertale at Town level, in fact, one could more easily assume the opposite, since I said I want 8-C Undertale, and I honestly have no idea why you're even saying that to me, instead of saying that to someone who is actually arguing that, like, legit, I really don't know what you were trying to achieve with this response, but ok, I guess.

 

[Read_this_post]

tbf paulo did use strikethrough ƒæÇ

 

[Jaften]

I clearly mistook your response to be to the lightning issue, since you posted it right after we started talking about it in earnest.

Don't blow a fuse about it.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

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