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"upgrades"Read this post said:
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Undertale town level downgrades
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You can try saving your post in a word document first, if you're not already doing that.
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Also, I wouldnt think Undyne would have Heat Resistance, as she was clearly overheating pretty easily, unless it was likely PIS.
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She survived an overloading oven's fireball without much problem. I think she just has a limit to the amount of heat she can take—which should also be noted, probably in her weaknesses.Psychomaster35 said:
Also, JFC this thread is almost 450 posts long, just end it already.
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I'm pretty sure it was said he was entering the realm of the clouds because we couldn't see above it. Clouds are never shown to be in mountains because they, unlike Ebott, aren't hollow. Also, mountains do in fact reach well into the cloud layer. Pikes Peak, for example, is 14,115 feet tall, well in the range of all but the highest clouds. Besides, saying something is reaching the realm of the clouds isn't a hyperbole people use and if were a joke it would be lost on anyone reading it.
Vulkin actually is a real volcano, and can even generate magma and heat like one, so by your logic they lightning he creates should have properties of lightning, which I agree with. Furthermore, the danmaku projectiles created by Monsters are depicted as literal. Also Mettaton having Electricity Manipulation does not mean that Vulkin doesn't create lightning.
Undyne was never stated to be able to oneshot Papyrus. Her being Town Level was decided by a mixture of how far Papyrus is into Small Town Level and how many times stronger Undyne is in STATs + DT buffs.
There's actually 2 reasons why Ice Cap and Snowdrake can fight alongside Jerry. (1) Jerry doesn't have as much HP as they do to exploit his higher DEF. It's his 50 to their 75. (2) ATK actually has some bearing on how durable someone is, as Frisk was able to use the 6 SOULs to turn Photoshop Flowey's DEF to 0 but couldn't use them to oneshot him since his ATK was untouched. And no, his HP could not have been responsible as DEF decides how fast the HP goes down, not the other way around. This is important because both Ice Cap and Snowdrake have a higher ATK than DEF, while Jerry could not exploit this as he has 0 ATK.
ATK having a bearing on Durability also explains everything you said about improper STAT scaling.
Vulkin actually is a real volcano, and can even generate magma and heat like one, so by your logic they lightning he creates should have properties of lightning, which I agree with. Furthermore, the danmaku projectiles created by Monsters are depicted as literal. Also Mettaton having Electricity Manipulation does not mean that Vulkin doesn't create lightning.
Undyne was never stated to be able to oneshot Papyrus. Her being Town Level was decided by a mixture of how far Papyrus is into Small Town Level and how many times stronger Undyne is in STATs + DT buffs.
There's actually 2 reasons why Ice Cap and Snowdrake can fight alongside Jerry. (1) Jerry doesn't have as much HP as they do to exploit his higher DEF. It's his 50 to their 75. (2) ATK actually has some bearing on how durable someone is, as Frisk was able to use the 6 SOULs to turn Photoshop Flowey's DEF to 0 but couldn't use them to oneshot him since his ATK was untouched. And no, his HP could not have been responsible as DEF decides how fast the HP goes down, not the other way around. This is important because both Ice Cap and Snowdrake have a higher ATK than DEF, while Jerry could not exploit this as he has 0 ATK.
ATK having a bearing on Durability also explains everything you said about improper STAT scaling.
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I'm pretty sure it was said he was entering the realm of the clouds because we couldn't see above it. Clouds are never shown to be in mountains because they, unlike Ebott, aren't hollow. Also, mountains do in fact reach well into the cloud layer. Pikes Peak, for example, is 14,115 feet tall, well in the range of all but the highest clouds. Besides, saying something is reaching the realm of the clouds isn't a hyperbole people use and if were a joke it would be lost on anyone reading it.
This only responds to one of the points in the OP.
OP: The language is hyperbole, we still see the dog's head not in clouds when he's supposedly in the realm of clouds. When he's off-screen he's said to be far away, so the programmer intended his head to be visible along with the statement of his head being in clouds.
You: Mountains can have clouds in them, and I don't think it was a hyperbole.
And to respond to you, it is obviously hyperbole and the joke is lost on you. Have you ever heard the idiom "To have one's head in the clouds"? It's a pretty common saying in English, and here it's used as hyperbole about how high Lesser Dog's head is.
Vulkin actually is a real volcano, and can even generate magma and heat like one, so by your logic they lightning he creates should have properties of lightning, which I agree with. Furthermore, the danmaku projectiles created by Monsters are depicted as literal. Also Mettaton having Electricity Manipulation does not mean that Vulkin doesn't create lightning.
Again you're ignoring the point from the OP.
OP: Vulkin's cloud is not a real cloud, and Vulkin's lightning doesn't behave like actual lightning.
You: Vulkin is a real volcano.
The point of bringing up Mettaton's lighting was to say that Frisk couldn't dodge that, but Frisk could very easily dodge Vulkin's supposed lightning.
I'm not responding to the stat scaling since I'm not interested in that, I'm just interested in the validity of the base feats.
This only responds to one of the points in the OP.
OP: The language is hyperbole, we still see the dog's head not in clouds when he's supposedly in the realm of clouds. When he's off-screen he's said to be far away, so the programmer intended his head to be visible along with the statement of his head being in clouds.
You: Mountains can have clouds in them, and I don't think it was a hyperbole.
And to respond to you, it is obviously hyperbole and the joke is lost on you. Have you ever heard the idiom "To have one's head in the clouds"? It's a pretty common saying in English, and here it's used as hyperbole about how high Lesser Dog's head is.
Vulkin actually is a real volcano, and can even generate magma and heat like one, so by your logic they lightning he creates should have properties of lightning, which I agree with. Furthermore, the danmaku projectiles created by Monsters are depicted as literal. Also Mettaton having Electricity Manipulation does not mean that Vulkin doesn't create lightning.
Again you're ignoring the point from the OP.
OP: Vulkin's cloud is not a real cloud, and Vulkin's lightning doesn't behave like actual lightning.
You: Vulkin is a real volcano.
The point of bringing up Mettaton's lighting was to say that Frisk couldn't dodge that, but Frisk could very easily dodge Vulkin's supposed lightning.
I'm not responding to the stat scaling since I'm not interested in that, I'm just interested in the validity of the base feats.
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Lesser dog didn't even stretch his neck long enough to go offscreen so yeah it's still heavily dubious that he reached into the clouds, even if it wasn't an outright impossible thing to happen
Papyrus bones are actual objects, yeah we know that even from the game. How is that supposed to debunk vulkin's lightning being lightning shaped objects? And I don't think you quite understood the Mettaton point, it was a electric based attack being undodgeable by Frisk that was brought up not Mettaton being an electricity manipulator
Papyrus bones are actual objects, yeah we know that even from the game. How is that supposed to debunk vulkin's lightning being lightning shaped objects? And I don't think you quite understood the Mettaton point, it was a electric based attack being undodgeable by Frisk that was brought up not Mettaton being an electricity manipulator
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Oh jeez, the committee showed up. I'll address each of you individually.
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Cut the snark dude.
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Correction: Mountains like Ebott COULD have clouds in them, especially since we know evaporation exists in the Underground, and it wouldn't make logical sense if it WERE said as a hyperbole.
And it literally says he's "entered the realm of the clouds", saying it was meant to be an idiom would be foolish, and it would imply that Lesser Dog had lost his concentration, which didn't happen. Not to mention if that were somehow the case, just saying "Lesser Dog's head is in the clouds" would have made a ton more sense.
He said it's not real lightning in the same way that Vulkin is not a real volcano. I proved Vulkin operates like a real volcano and his attacks are literal.
Mettaton doesn't have lightning that Frisk can't dodge, unless you're talking about the laser from when you get a question wrong, which is, I repeat, a laser.
And it literally says he's "entered the realm of the clouds", saying it was meant to be an idiom would be foolish, and it would imply that Lesser Dog had lost his concentration, which didn't happen. Not to mention if that were somehow the case, just saying "Lesser Dog's head is in the clouds" would have made a ton more sense.
He said it's not real lightning in the same way that Vulkin is not a real volcano. I proved Vulkin operates like a real volcano and his attacks are literal.
Mettaton doesn't have lightning that Frisk can't dodge, unless you're talking about the laser from when you get a question wrong, which is, I repeat, a laser.
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Sorry. My mental capacity starts to decline after the 4 hour mark.Andytrenom said:
Jackythejack
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We're having more debate. It's what this wiki is for. Please calm down.CBtheDB said:
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That usually happens when it does hit 500.
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If this has been applied already I'll close this.
it was going to hit 500 anyways
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A new argument just got posted. We need to at least let a new thread be posted here instead of slamming the metaphorical door in his face.
That said I still don't think the new argument changes anything but we owe it to him to let this play out. If someone can link a follow up thread here that would be great.
That said I still don't think the new argument changes anything but we owe it to him to let this play out. If someone can link a follow up thread here that would be great.
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