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Undertale speed revision

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Shouldn't Ruins Monsters be athletic human?

I mean, compared to Frisk's running for the lols, pretty sure they use enough DETERMINATION against Froggit to warrant a Athletic Human eating (Since Frisk would be like 7.2 m/s)
 
The attack rating is what frisk has always been shown to directly scale to. Frisk has had plenty of instances where he cannot deal with the characters durability but practically no instance where he can get physically one shotted. I do agree that other scaling feats are okay. But when a monster has higher attack, it means they are able to fight a frisk who is a good bit above their previous self.

For the frame by frame video, i am actually focusing on the point where papyrus runs enough times to make this sound. So far i have only found another video where he runs six times. But hopefully i can count the normal one as superhuman anyway

I dont feel comfortable scaling the weakest monsters above athletic at all. There really isnt much suggesting them being noteably far above a min determination frisk. There ap of 4 is actually still physically close to those with zero defence, and frisk really doesnt gain much determination. I think an at least rating is better suited.

I can to the calc tomorrow because-

Ffffuuuuuuuhtiegrwfkendmsfndgbj htkieunlsfrmx,v
 
@Read, he did the sound, I send you the video and the timeframe not exactly when it sounds, but he keeps that speed in a distance long enough to calc


4 compared to 0 when Frisk is 7.2 compared to 7.7 (Baseline Athletic) i think is fair... Or maybe "At least Normal Human, likely Athletic Human"


Napstablook could be "Peak Human" or "At least Peak Human"


The Canine Royal Guards should be "At least Peak Human with Superhuman attack speed" (Downscaling/Backscaling from Papyrus running at around 17 m/s [Or something like that I got by eye just looking at his house tour feat])


Papyrus should be Superhuman (Running speed. Keeping up with Undyne) with Subsonic attack speed (attack speed comparable to Undyne)


Undyne: Superhuman (Can keep up with Papyrus and outran Frisk. And can tag their Soul at these speeds) with Subsonic speed (Cause... 90 mph spears)
 
With a difference of x1.0786 times between zero determination Frisk's speed and Athletic Human's baseline, I believe that rating for even the likes of Froggit should make sense (Beside, flies can reach speeds of 15 mph and Froggit's flies are like 10 cm (when regular flies are 7 mm)


Napstablook could be "At least Athletic Human"


Snowdin's monsters should be "Peak Human"

Canine Royal Guard "At least Peak Human, likely SuperHuman" (Not too far behind Papyrus)


Papyrus is SuperHuman (from his feat + putting up a fight against Undyne) with possibly Subsonic attack speed


Undyne is SuperHuman (Outran Frisk who can ran at 13.something m/s against her + keeping up with their soul at 22 m/s) with Subsonic attack speed (Cause spears)


Asgore "At least SuperHuman with Subsonic attack speed"


Undyne the Undying, Mettaton NEO could be "At least SuperHuman, likely Subsonic


Sans should be the only at 'Subsonic" (Can dodge Frisk/Chara attacks that blitzed all monsters basically, target their soul and having a higher attack speed than undyne) [No, I don't add "higher reactions" since that's what makes him Subsonic in the first place)
 
Okay. But monster kid and snowdrakes mother (at most) are still normal human because of this.

Based on this scaling, nappa should have peak human speeds due to having three points above the ruins monsters and originating from the waterfall to add on.

The snowdin monsters would be at least peak human. But due to papyruses feat being a bit higher than expected. Mold and shyren should be superhuman. I dont think guards should scale close to papyrus since they are 5- points below him.

Papyrus doesnt scale to undynes spears. He has kept up with her in combat and is relatively close, but there is nothing suggesting he scales to her throwing spears at full power. Plus he isnt far off undyne anyway.

Due to how far above everyone mettaton neo and undyne are, im pretty comfortable in just giving them subsonic

It is one thing to dodge frisks attacks. It is another to be able to completely avoid frisks attacks while sleeping and literally be impossible to hit without breaking the rules. His attacks are subsonic since they can tag frisk normally. But his reactions are either higher, or an actual higher rating if quantifiable (which im pretty sure there is since blitzing someone can warrent a certain rating)

Other than this i agree.
 
I believe only Sans should get the pure "Subsonic" rating, Undying and NEO a "likely"


Also, another topic but... If we accept with speed jumps, what about AP jumps? Frisk tanks (with no damage) that attack with 0 determination, and the gap between that and 8-C is 16.67 times
 
I believe only Sans should get the pure "Subsonic" rating, Undying and NEO a "likely"


Also, another topic but... If we accept with speed jumps, what about AP jumps? Frisk tanks (with no damage) that attack with 0 determination, and the gap between that and 8-C is 16.67 times
 
Pure subsonic without higher reactions is wrong considering sans blatantly scales higher in reactions. I suppose undying and neo can be given likely if that is what you feel comfortable with

The speed gap is being used mainly to consistently scale them with frisks speed increase he gets through determination. The monsters do have ap gaps. However as mentioned in the downgrade thread, these monsters are comparable to the last and the likes of asgore are only really a few times greater than the feat.

Though tbf, undyne the undying can very easily be argued as small building+ to building level. But that is a topic for another time.

@Sean Monster kids only feat is running alongside a minimal determination frisk and not even fighting him.

Unless monster kids running can be calced as athletic which is unlikely judging by frisks top "visual speed" being normal human
 
Yeah. Before it started.

Showing fear or pulling a face while someone attacks is not a reaction feat. Unless you wanna scale Genos to Saitamas serious punch. That is just from falling

I think it could work if done right. You can hit me up in the dms or message wall if you wanna look into that.
 
Because it wasn't animated in. He monster kid scene was to make you feel terrible. Showing fear from an attack\realisig you are going to get one shotted is not a reaction feat

So, wanna get down to making that profile? Because I am interested
 
It really doesnt matter. Simply knowing you are about to get one shotted doesnt make it a reaction feat. The other monsters not changing their faces is simply because they are fully engaged in combat. It doesnt mean they are unable to react and are getting blitzed (when frisk is clearly comparable in speed to them

If you wanna make it, im open to discuss. I dont want to have to get it deleted again
 
Eh. I'm willing to drop it since he's likely faster than Waterfall-area monsters anyways.

Me neither. I actually would have argued against having it deleted in the first place but the mod did so in 5 minutes with no discussion.
 
Unlikely but alright.

Yeah. It was a rather lackluster profile. But i think it can be improved. Ill message later on about it if you want.
 
Can we conclude this thread and make the changes already?

Ruins monsters = Athletic

Napstablook/snowdin monsters = Peak human

Papyrus and above/shyren and moldsbygg = Superhuman

Undyne asgore and toriel = subsonic attack speed

Mettaton neo = likely subsonic

Undyne the undying = subsonic

Sans = subsonic with higher/higher listed reactions (may update him last since ther is discussion)
 
So what are the conclusions here?
 
Yeah. Ruins monsters scale to a frisk with higher determination making them athletic. those with ten attack and above scale to peak human. Papyrus and those incredibly close are superhuman. Undyne asgore and toriel have subsonic attack speed.

Monsters do scale through attack. Sans will be subsonic with either higher or higher listed reactions

But there is still the minor discussion. If someone is able to dodge subsonic attacks to the point where it is literally impossible to hit them with said attacks (without breaking the rules at least), what reaction does that warrant?
 
I do not know our specific conventions for easily dodging subsonic attacks. Sorry.
 
Anyway, if you write a list of the pages that you need unlocked here, I can handle it.
 
@Antvasima I think sans profile requires a bit more discussion before editing. But everyone else can have the changes made.
 
Okay. You need to list the exact page titles here though.
 
So, Sans would be Subsonic with higher reactions? (Same justification he has)

Chara would be Subsonic

Frisk: Normal Human with zero determination (Can run this fast). Up at least SuperHuman when filled with greater levels of Determination (Can keep up with Asgore), able to move even faster by drinking Sea Tea

Flowey may also have a variable speed tier like Frisk
 
Yes. Theres also a couple broken links i wanted to fix in the profiles as well.

I would probably change sans to far higher which makes more sense. But im still not sure if there is a way to fully quantify dodging at that level. Anybody who may know that?
 
Just add "higher/far higher" reactions


Sans' subsonic rating (for movement) would already be a tier jump from Superhuman (~23 m/s), so another can't be done just like that.
 
Do you think sans should be subsonic in movement speed? I really just think his running should be left unmentioned since it is rather vague.
 
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