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Undertale speed revision

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The story implies that Frisk called Papyrus immediately after Undyne ran off, and the only shortcut she could have POSSIBLY taken is jumping ever the small gap (which itself is questionable). All others are headcanon as there's no wall you can simply jump over.
 
The story doesnt imply that at all. It is literally the players choice for when it happens.

It isnt headcannon. Undynes first appearence is standing above one of those walls. A lot of them are just raised platforms which undyne can easily jump over.

If there is no given timeframe, it cannot be calced.
 
If you don't call Papyrus before leaving Undyne's house area, it won't happen. And I sincirely doubt Frisk waited 2 minutes before calling Papyrus.

On that occasion the wall doesn't have an other end, meaning she couldn't have used it as a shortcut.
 
It doesnt matter. Even if frisk waited 20 seconds it wouldnt be enough. Basing on this image Undyne can already shortcut through half the level and take a shortcut from the bridge area.

What? My point is that she can jump over these platforms to travel in a straight line. Throughout the waterfall area she is taking unknown routes and ambushing you, appearing from nowhere. She clearly knows shortcuts that are not shown ingame.

Sorry but as discussed, this feat cannot be calculated without massive assumptions in both the timeframe and the route she took. Really the best you can give this feat is superhuman.
 
Wouldn't be enough for what? And Undyne wouldn't have taken a shortcut from the bridge area because the ferry is too slow.

Except she doesn't want to ambush you and is trying to leave Snowdin, so she most likely took the only route that leads out of Waterfall and into Snowdin, aka the route you took.
 
Im talking about when she took a shortcut from the beginning of the waterfall area to the bridge where she ambushes you

Sorry but what are you even talking about? She ambushes you multiple times in the game before you fight her by appearing from unknown routes. There is no evidence she is taking the exact same route you took.
 
Alright. Ill try and do this myself. This is my first attempt at a calc, so hopefully this is accurate.

Using the frame by frame video goes from the starting point to frisk from 3:11:03 to 3:11:63

Using the image below and frisks height of 137cm.

373/78 = 4.782051282051282051282051282051...

4.782051282051282051282051282051... x 137 = 655.14cm in 60 milliseconds

Which equates to 1091.9 cm a second

Thats 10.919m/s or Peak Human

Im not entirely sure if this alone can be used as this is just the cups speed alone. Would catching this cup directly scale to frisks reactions?

Hrjntgkdfes
 
Why would Frisk have to wait 20 seconds for that and what does it have to do with the time it takes to get to Papyrus's house?

She doesn't want to ambush you when she runs to Papyrus's house, I mean.
 
Read this post said:
Im not entirely sure if this alone can be used as this is just the cups speed alone. Would catching this cup directly scale to frisks reactions?
Click to expand...
Alphys had to stop the cup from moving didn't she? Because of that I don't think Frisk's own speed should be scaled to that of the cup.
 
She can hack those things from afar, can't she?

And it doesn't need to scale to reaction at all. A normal humans reaction (beyond already being subsonic) is more than enough to see something that relatively slow moving just fine.
 
Alphys didn't hack anything. She only hacks the bombs if frisk fails to defuse them. Frisk can still catch the cup on his own

But I do agree with ricsi. The cup is to far away to consider a peak human feat
 
There is no time undyne gets to papyruse house. It depends on when the player activates the cutscene. It is like trying to calc the running man from ocarina of times feat based on the time he took to beat link.

My point to begin with is that undyne has taken shortcuts to ambush frisk and can easily shorten her route to snowdin. Due to vague evidence, all we know is that she ran somewhere over 100 metres in a short timeframe. While it can be used to justify her superhuman rating (which she already has scaling to frisk) it cannot justify anything higher.

Anyway, i calced the papyrus and frisk running thing and it was 7.2 m/s which is very nearly athletic human but still only normal human. Ill post on how im going to scale the characters a bit later.
 
Wait a second. I did a really quick calc on frisks normal soul movement in combat in my spare time and it seems to be peak human.
 
Except Frisk's soul is Superhuman scaling from Undyne already


Unless you a feat where they certainly are using les DETERMINATION that against Undyne
 
No. I mean that the default speed for the soul is peak human. It was a mid determination frisk who scales to undyne in speed as he was able to take hits from the spears and recieve just as much damage as he would when facing undyne directly. There is no reason for frisks running speed at this level to scale to normal monsters. The only lower tier who scales is papyrus through his combat speed feat.

The soul still moves a certain distance in a certain amount of time on screen. This can be scaled to a low determination frisk

Edit: Nevermind. I got about 3m/s. Turns out a forgot to scale frisks height to the souls the first time. The soul movement feat is
 
However, i have one last trick up my sleeve which doesnt scale to anybody but papyrus and above. This feat here is low superhuman when i calced it (going by the point where he reached six pinging noises which is the fastest in the video). He can also go faster if you activate it enough times which activates a new noise

So papyrus and above are pretty much outright superhuman.
 
Alright, so here is the scale I have come up with that should retain consistency (please note that frisks determination scales to an opponents attack and not defence)

  • Monsters in the ruins below napstablook, due to all being comparable should scale to normal human
  • Napstablook (who is actually not a ruins monster and lives in the waterfall) should scale to athletic human as should those with above 10 attack as he has 3 points of attack above the other monsters in the ruins (who are incredibly close to being athletic with their 7.2m/s scaling from frisk running alongside papyrus in snowdin) and scales to a frisk who has a considerably greater level of determination than them.
  • Royal guards should be At least Athletic Human in speed
  • Moldbygg and shyren due to scaling just under papyrus but considerably above the royal guards should likely backscale to At least Peak Human. The reason for this is because of moldbygg having two attack points higher than the others, 1 less than shyren who has 1 less than papyrus, scaling them to a frisk with considerably closer speed to papyrus who is low superhuman.
  • Papyrus should scale to low superhuman for running this fast and giving undyne a considerably tough fight during training which should require close speeds
  • Undyne should be SuperHuman with Subsonic attack speed
  • Asgore and toriel should have Subsonic combat speed scaling far above undyne
  • Mettaton neo and undyne the undying should be Subsonic
  • Sans should have Subsonic attack and either far higher reactions, or higher listed reactions (should be decided on). His running should just stay unlisted as it is almost totally unknown unless you scale him physically sidestepping away from a subsonic frisks attacks
  • Snowdrakes mother should be Below Average because of how deformed and broken she is, scaling below frisk at his slowest. Unless At most Normal Human sounds better.
What do you guys think?
 
So... You want monsters to scale from your Frisk and Papyrus running feat (Which is Athletic Human... I know, just very close, but it also casual so Idk) or I got it wrong?
 
It might have been casual for papyrus, but this is the best running feat for a minimal determination frisk. This should scale to the basic ruins monsters and scale higher monsters to athletic due to facing a frisk with considerably greater determination.
 
Also Frisk can keep up with the flies summoned by Froggit in the ruins (Which also are larget than normal flies)

Maybe we can calculate Frisk's SOUL speed compared to those flies? It may result in Athletic, leaving min-determination Frisk at "Normal Human with Athletic Human reactions" (Sorry I don't offer myself to do the calcs, I have my time very limited to sit and do it, so I try my best to comment when I can)
 
@Aiden I'm pretty sure that would lead to calc stacking

@Sean They won't become immeasurable. Even if you debunk the anomaly with the obvious intent of elevating the verse as much as possible. I'm going to revise the verse and get them upgraded to infinite anyway. If not then the timelines void standards need fixing due to being so ridiculous.
 
That's not actually the only reason I want to prove the Anomaly (which is a name that Sans literally used to describe Chara) doesn't exist. It's also because he's got so many hax that other people should have instead, namely Frisk.
 
Im 90% sure that the anomaly would be brought back anyway after I revise the entirety of the verse. Debunking something just to upgrade the verse doesn't sound very objective but whatever.

This is derailing. The above conclusions are what needs to be focused on.
 
@Read

I mean, we calculated Frisk's speed compared to Undyne's spears, so Frisk dodging flies should be the same (Though I checked, they move at basically the same speed, but at least that supports Normal Human for min-determination I guess)
 
@Sean It is derailing to go in depth here, but ill cover basically everything soon when i manage a great enough time pattern.

@Aiden Im pretty sure it suffers similar calc stacking problems large island level papyrus had on a lesser scale. The spears are just outright thrown at athletic speeds. While the frisk soul movement requires you to take the value of frisk in one scene and apply it to other scene then scaling it to another character which leads to calc stacking from my knowledge.

However the projectiles are relative to frisks speed anyway up until a few snowdin monsters who are that level anyway. So, are you fine with the rest of the conclusions?
 
I'm honestly not sure. Some things like speed scaling based on attack stats and scaling combat speed of certain monsters to Undyne's attack speed does give me doubts at the moment. But I don't know, maybe those will turn out to be perfectly fine if I think on them a bit.
 
I think we need blogs for the following calcs tho:

Papyrus running in his house tour

Frisk running alongside Papyrus in snowdin
 
The first one can I can do in this thread pretty easy. The second one is a little harder since I can't find a video showing him running to the point where it activates the second noise.
 
I disagree with using atk rating like that...


I mean, they are ok to use as reference and the gap between monsters, but also we should guide by other scaling


For example, with the exception of Undyne, each monster Frisk fights is equal or stronger than the previous one, including Boss monsters sometimes, So that's a good base. Also other scaling feats are ok, like Undyne statement on Papyrus, or Sans being the only monster able to dodge
 
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