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Undertale speed revision

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About the Undyne running calc. Being a gag scene or creating scaling inconsistencies weren't the only problems (Side note, I still find the find the notion of the feat being illegitimate due to being comedic absurd)

Two other issues that Read brought up were the lack of a reliable Timeframe, since you can get the same response from papyrus and Undyne much later, and the possibility of taking a shorter path than what the calc assumed.
 
I can respond to this tomorrow since i have all day (hopefully). But before i do, i need to know.

Assuming undynes magical spears to be a speed feat, would this scale to a minimally determined frisk? Or a mid determined frisk?
 
It's not loaded but it shoots magical bullets which are already wonky
 
GiverOfThePeace said:
The gun itself still fires.
Click to expand...
It fires imaginary bullets.

We are not going to assume that imaginary bullets are 100% comparable to real bullets. We're not going there.
 
@Jaften Only proves that it uses a different sprite. You still don't have any evidence that it's actually thrown. You obviously dont get it

Undyne not directly throwing her spear Because if he made undyne throw the spear, then it would have literally been impossible to dodge in that scene. The spear would have covered the whole box as soon as it was thrown. The attack is specifically designed to catch you by surprise once you start moving. Animating undyne throwing that spear would require him to program an entire throwing animation, move the box completely, expand the box making it easier to dodge etc. There is no way he would go through all that when he can just have you get caught by the spear.

Editing the spear out of her hand would still require another unnecessary sprite animation for him to design just for one simple surprise attack.

Mad dummy example One instance of a monster throwing an attack from their angle (which was made to be easily avoidable) does not mean every attack must be thrown from the monster in order to not be a magically spawned attack. Monsters take several different actions in fights and are not seen doing said actions through their sprites (greater dog being an example). Just because he toby is willing to sometimes make attacks come from the sprites, that does not mean every attack needs to come from a sprite in order to be a direct attack. He only programs these animations in for gags, whenever he feels like it or when the attack actually is actually fitting.

Read, your best argument is "it's different from the other attacks." Even you must realize that's not a good argument, and certainly doesn't prove the spear was thrown, especially since she's still depicted as holding the spear. Face it, your argument rests entirely on weak ground. You can't prove she actually threw that spear. You obviously dont get it.

Every other spear undyne spawns has both a different sprite and a magical spawning sound effect. The only spears undyne throws that are both aimed straight at you, fired as one, function differently from all other spears and remain silent whilst thrown is the spear in that scene, and the spear thrown in the date.

You yourself dont have anything to prove that spear was magically spawned. There is are far more similarities between the spear in that scene and the one that was thrown and the other completely differently designed spears which specifically follow the functions of the spawned ones.

Using occams razor, it requires far less speculation argue that the spear which is shown to function differently from the other spears, and more similarly to the thrown spear, was in fact thrown. And that the spears which do function differently, make the same spawning noises and function the same way as the spawned spears, are the ones which are spawned by undyne.
 
Anyway. Andytrenom brought up a good point. It makes no logical sense for undyne to throw slow moving spears at you, when she could easily just snipe you with a spear that you cannot dodge. Especially later in the fight when she is more determined than ever to fight you and when she transforms into undyne the undying.

For the barking feat. Please note that the only way this can be a speed feat, is through the assumption that magic is infused into greater dogs soundwaves specifically to allow them to deal damage.

Judging by the only two feats that scale to minimally determined frisk, it is safe to say that those who scale to weak snowdin monsters should be comfortably superhuman going by jaftens calc.

Mettatons dropping feat might be a better reaction feat, but still likely superhuman.

Sans first feat of teleporting on and off the stick is still a reaction feat just to let you know. Someone should calc that.
 
So what are the conclusions here?
 
At least on my part, I think Superhuman for the slowest characters (Like Froggit) and Subsoni for the fastest should be fine
 
@RTP

Okay.

@Aiden & DMUA

Are either of you willing to handle it?
 
I'm a bit overworked by a lot of things so if Aiden can get to it, it would be preferable.
 
Yes, of course. That is fine.

Somebody could also ask some other calc group member.
 
Anyway, I will have to unsubscribe from this thread due to extreme overwork. My apologies.
 
Ill do it.

But one thing i should address. Should papyrus scale to undyne? He has been known to train with her and keep up, even giving her a tough fight while doing so. Im pretty sure they should be similar in speeds.

No apologies needed.
 
People who scale a little bit below him (probably those with above 15 attack) may recieve at least superhuman likely/possibly subsonic (if those are the results) in this case

Also please keep in mind that the calc used for small building level did factor in frisks height as being 4 feet
 
Also if i recall correctly, napstablook was able to hit mad dummy with magical attacks. Although mad dummy was in an enraged state at this point. Im not sure if he would scale to the snowdin monsters in speed or if that would only apply to him. It might give him possibly subsonic reaction speeds.
 
It seems like it. If you consider training and being able to impress someone, giving them a tough fight as an indication of being comparable speed wise
 
Nap did that on accident tho. And the dummy didn't see it coming. It came from above. It was a surprise thing. that shouldn't scale at all.

The jetpack feat where mettaton drops stuff while frisks rides a jetpack is at best a bit over 40 MPH at best
 
Yeah. But then again, dummy could have dodged while in the mist of it. But then again, he probably couldn't be bothered. So you are probably right.

I don't buy the jet pack feat. He just moves out the way as soon as mettaton drops it. Mettaton moves with frisk and they drop at the same speed regardless. The only thing that can really scale is the cup.
 
Everyone should be Superhuman, yes


Now, about Subsonic rating: Frisk's reactions are very close to Subsonic, So it arguable if they should have them (Or just rate Subsonic for very high DETERMINATION Frisk). Sans and Asgore should likely have Subsonic reactions (Being well above this Frisk) and attack speed (Scaling from Undyne)
 
Undyne has subsonic attack speed from this? Im not so sure how this would scale to asgore since he is likely comparable to undyne in speed.

However i do feel comfortable with giving undyne the undying, mettaton neo and sans a subsonic rating.

Also there is the issue of the cup. I dont think jaftens calc can be used since it uses a different measurement and was hastly made. Could you possibly do it with the measurements given?

Also the undyne house blog may need updating if we are accepting a greater height for frisk (which will be an ap upgrade though not a tier change)
 
Let's face it, the Undertale section of this site is a trash heap currently. I get that people are trying to help, but all it's doing is making stats be Unknown and making the pages look worse.
 
It wasn't an issue of outliers, the fireball that Undyne tanked just couldn't be assumed to have the same temperature as the oven itself
 
Undyne passed out due to the increasing temperature of her armour

9000 degrees scales to the oven. Not the fireball itself. That is what was discussed
 
Because she was heavily in cases in armor. And running around. Had it been that hot. That water cooler couldn't have even been there. The water only evaporates when it touches the floor
 
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