Undertale speed revision

[Buttersamuri]

Undyne passed out due to the increasing temperature of her armour

9000 degrees scales to the oven. Not the fireball itself. That is what was discussed

^^^^^^^^

Pretty much yea

 

[Read_this_post]

Before i update the profiles, could somebody do a possible recalc of the calc involving the cup using frisks height from here?

Jaften did the calc at the beginning. Although it uses a very different height and was just made as a quick draft.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Undyne has subsonic attack speed from this? Im not so sure how this would scale to asgore since he is likely comparable to undyne in speed.
However i do feel comfortable with giving undyne the undying, mettaton neo and sans a subsonic rating.

Cause Asgore can keep up with Frisk using more determination than against Undyne


So anyone above Undyne should have Subsonic attack speed and reactions

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Except the very reason the "fireball" happened was because the oven overloaded itself and the feat was downplayed because the person used the outside of the house.

Undyne has mentioned that she finds Hotland hot even without her armor.

 

[Read_this_post]

That literally doesnt change anything. The oven overloading causing expansion does not scale the fireball directly to the oven. Objects that cause chain reactions and act as fuel to ignite flames to not scale to the flames themselves. Flames from the ovens are not even caused by the heat itself. Cranking the oven that high would just overwork the flame, causing the expansion. There is nothing that implies the ovens temperature directly scaling.

If you want to prove that an ovens temperature, the source of a fire or the heat causing a fire in general directly scales to the flame itself then make a content revision. Others can explain it far better.

Undyne only found the hotland irritating without armour. That doesnt mean she would collapse from exhaustion nor would it prove the hotlands to have greater temperatures.

Now stop derailing.

 

[Read_this_post]

@AidenBrooks999 We dont know how much frisks speed would increase at that point especially considering that it likely doesnt scale linearly.

However due to how close it is, i do feel comfortable giving them "likely subsonic". Could you also possibly redo that calc with the cup using frisks height of 1.37m?

 

[AidenBrooks999]

It would be Peak Human

Since Jaften used 1.52

 

[Read_this_post]

@AidenBrooks999 I suppose so. Could you possibly calc it here so i can link it in the profiles that scale? I think jaften also only left it with the cups speed. Im not sure if anything else needs to be added to fully calculate the reactions.

The peak human monsters would likely be those who are below napstablook since they are roughly comparable. Im not sure about blooker himself.

Edit: I really wish i knew how to properly do pixel measurements

Also you can use this to help if it is needed (you can select 0.01s and click the arrow for better accuracy)

Edit 2: Also how do sans reactions scale? How good with his reactions be to dodge someone going over 90mph to the point where they cannot land a single hit on him without breaking the rules, even when he is asleep? Because i am almost certain that it is above subsonic.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

You seem to want to upgrade the verse, but you only seem to want to do so by using calcs. You do realize that pages that use nothing but calcs look like fodder, right?

The heat from the oven exploding due to turning it up even higher wouldn't be overwhelmingly lower than the temperature inside the oven.

Yeah, enough so that Alphys put a water cooler there.

 

[Buttersamuri]

If we can't get an exact real number to the fire balls heat. We couldn't assume the higher end. We would have to assume the lower end. That's how it's done on the wiki to my understanding.

believe me. I have a feat myself that I wish the higher end could be used since the numbers would most likely be higher than lower

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Late and I have yet to read the thread, but Sans can dodge gunshots in his fight when Frisk is using a gun.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Except there are no bullets in the gun. Plus, he does it from a good ten meters away.

 

[Read_this_post]

Calcs are the reason town level undertale even existed. With feats only and no calcs to back them up (excluding god tiers) undertale is only wall level. Majority of standalone feats are taken out of proportion anyway

If you want to know why a yellow fireball expanding from an oven would not scale to the temperature of the oven itself, just ask a consultant (probably donttalk).

Btw i think someone did a calc where they used a 9000 degree explosion or something and it was wall level+. Fire expansion on that scale is actually an upgrade if anything.

She put a water cooler there because the hotlands are hot. Not because undyne would pass out no matter what.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Except there are no bullets in the gun. Plus, he does it from a good ten meters away.

Even assuming it has bullets, it stills Subsonic for Sans, so yeah

 

[AidenBrooks999]

@AidenBrooks999 I suppose so. Could you possibly calc it here so i can link it in the profiles that scale? I think jaften also only left it with the cups speed. Im not sure if anything else needs to be added to fully calculate the reactions.
The peak human monsters would likely be those who are below napstablook since they are roughly comparable. Im not sure about blooker himself.

Frisk is still Superhuman in running speed alone, pretty sure that would scale to his SOUL speed even with no DETERMINATION

Edit 2: Also how do sans reactions scale? How good with his reactions be to dodge someone going over 90mph to the point where they cannot land a single hit on him without breaking the rules, even when he is asleep? Because i am almost certain that it is above subsonic.

"SuperHuman running speed (Scaling from Papyrus and Frisk) with Subsonic attack speed (Scaling from Undyne and High LOVE Frisk/Chara) and reactions"

 

[Read_this_post]

I dont think frisk is superhuman in running speed. The speed feat with undyne was performed with mid determination as shown by the fact that he can take the same damage in that scene as in the undyne fight. The closest i can find to that is frisk running alongside papyrus when visiting his house.

Im pretty sure sans should have subsonic running speed. He should be at least comparable to chara/frisk who scale above frisk when on that bridge and is easily capable of moving away from frisks attacks. Plus his reactions would be way above his attack speed since frisk is completely unable to hit him without breaking the rules. Im pretty sure that would warrent him somewhere between subsonic+ to possibly supersonic reactions.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

You're only proving my point. You only think the verse is wall level because you refuse to look at anything but calcs.

Like this Class M lifting feat I calced for Undyne.

I'm not saying calcs are useless, but they're not the only thing making the verse strong.


I'm not saying Undyne would fall unconscious anyway either, I'm saying it was enough of an issue.

 

[Andytrenom]

Sean stop derailing already, this is a speed revision it's no place for you to complain about the current AP ratings

 

[Read_this_post]

So. Could somebody do a calc on the cup and/or frisks running speed so i can scale it to the lower tiers? Using 1.37m for frisk

 

[AidenBrooks999]

@Read


I don't think DETERMINATION affects his running speed while dodging Undyne's spears on the bridge


Maybe we should calc while Frisk and Papyrus run? (Unless we accept that everyone runs at Superhuman speeds)


Sans has no reason to be faster at running than any characters (Specially since he uses teleportation). He is faster in reactions and attack speed

 

[Therefir]

Maybe we should calc while Frisk and Papyrus run? (Unless we accept that everyone runs at Superhuman speeds)

Sans has no reason to be faster at running than any characters (Specially since he uses teleportation). He is faster in reactions and attack speed

I already calculated that feat at 6.4/6.7 m/s (Normal Human).

Going with the sprites in combat, Sans can move faster than Genocide Frisk's knife swing.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Wanna do the cup feat? At best that's Peak Human


That's dodging, not running (We hardly even see Sans walking, scaling his combat speed to his movement makes no sense)

 

[Buttersamuri]

Being unable to hit sans definitely doesn't warrant a Subsonic+ to Supersonic rating. That's pushing it WAY WAY too far. It wouldn't be anything higher than Sub Sonic

And most definitely not running speed. Reaction and combat speed sure. Running is a no no.

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Except there are no bullets in the gun. Plus, he does it from a good ten meters away.

Then what is Frisk shooting at him? The distance also doesn't matter, unless we want to use it for calcing purposes.

Actually, that gives me an idea. I'm gonna go calc that.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Then what is Frisk shooting at him? The distance also doesn't matter, unless we want to use it for calcing purposes.

Actually, that gives me an idea. I'm gonna go calc that.

I believe it's said to be like magic or determination stars. But couldn't be scaled to bullet speed

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Then what is Frisk shooting at him? The distance also doesn't matter, unless we want to use it for calcing purposes.
Actually, that gives me an idea. I'm gonna go calc that.

I believe it's said to be like magic or determination stars. But couldn't be scaled to bullet speed

If it's the latter I understand then, but Frisk doesn't use magic and can't use it.

 

[Buttersamuri]

Well. By magic I mean determination. Just like in a form of a way they can use to attack with. Which technically could be called magic...: but regardless I think it's determination. That's what I recall. Tho I could be wrong

 

[Truth_Bullets]

Yeah, I don't remember Frisk ever using Determination as an attack tool. Given how the gun in-game functions just like a normal gun, and is definitely shooting something, we should scale it to actual bullet speed.

 

[Randomlamdom]

Except that it's explicitly empty, so it's definitely some determination/soul weirdness and there's really no way to scale that

 

[Buttersamuri]

Yea. It's wrong to assume that whatever that gun is shooting moves as fast as a bullet. We have 0 context on it other than it being empty.

 

[Read_this_post]

In order to avoid a subsonic attack by side stepping out the way in the fashion sans did, you should logically have similar movement speed. I think running shouldnt be listed anyway since it has way to many unknown factors put into it.

Determination has no reason to boost every stat except running speed. Especially considering the god tiers likely prove that wrong anyway. Plus a mid determination frisk should not be backscaled

From what i recall, characters get supersonic ratings for blitzing subsonics and subsonics get it for blitzing normal humans all the time. Frisk is still comparable to sans attack speed. Sans reactions however are so great that frisk has absolutely no way of touching him at all without breaking the rules. That should be a pretty clear indication of a speed blitz gap in terms of sans reactions alone.

If not then he would still have far higher reaction speed at least.

Since the papyrus and frisk running feat is apparently only normal human, the only thing that can be used is a recalc of frisk catching the cup

 

[Read_this_post]

To assume the gun works at the speed of one, you need to assume frisk is putting or imagining something into the gun, allowing it to fire. If he is using his imagination to directly fire then it cannot be used.

It can only be used if you can prove the former to be true.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

@read


By this point I think I lost track of how you want to make the scaling work

 

[Read_this_post]

Oh, sorry. Well, undyne should have superhuman combat speed and subsonic attack speed with spears. Papyrus should also scale close due to being able to keep up and train with undyne. Asgore himself should have subsonic combat speed. Sans should have subsonic combat speed, but far higher reactions (said reactions being listed as a higher amount if possible). Running speed for most characters may not be listed.

If the cup calculation is posted here with frisks height of 1.37m (which will scale to frisks combat speed with minimal determination), i can scale it to low level monsters at least depending on how far away they scale from papyrus. Napstablook and below should at least scale.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Papyrus keeping up with Undyne in Training is questionable


I mean, can't she hold back while training?

 

[Andytrenom]

She should be able to yeah

 

[Read_this_post]

She also trained papyrus and considered him to be a tough fight (even though papyrus likely wasn't fighting seriously). It should be a clear indication they are not too far off in speed and strength

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

She also trained papyrus and considered him to be a tough fight

To further add on to this, here's the original quote: "He's actually pretty freaking tough"

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I'm surprised that nobody brought up the time that Undyne ra from her house to Papyrus's in 3 seconds flat.

 

[Read_this_post]

They have in the downgrade thread. It was rejected due to timeframes only depending on the players actions and many other ways of taking shortcuts like jumping over walls etc. Its likely superhuman anyway (which she has scaling to frisk anyway)